DONT STRETCH BEFORE FOOTBAGGING/WORKOUTS

BenRea · Post by **BenRea** » 08 Jul 2006 16:00

I've just recently read an interesting article in issue 226 of "Peak Performance" -the research newsletter on stamina, strength and fitness.

The message from the article was that pre-exercise stretching does not appear to reduce injury and may even reduce sport performance.

It also appears that the American College of Sports Medicine has changed its stance from pre-exercise static stretches of the major muscle groups to pre-exercise warm-up only consisting of cardiovascular exercise.

As the newsletter is only available to subscribers I shall summarise what I can.

Scientists have conducted randomised, controlled trials. In one study of 1,093 servicemen they found that pre-exercise stretching did not protect from injury. In another study Dutch scientists during a 16 week study of 421 runners also found that stretching did not reduce the risk of injury.

Then there were other tests done on performance. They go on to say; " It has in fact shown that less force is required to rupture 'stretchy' muscle than a 'stiff' muscle".
They also found that the least flexible runners are also the most economical . Too much flexibility causes excess rotation and movement of the joints and muscles creating inefficiency of movement, stress on joints and more likelihood of muscle tears.

Their explanation is that muscle filament cross-bridges are broken when muscle is stretched only 20 % beyond its resting length.

In another study carried out Canadian researchers found that muscle strength was 28% lower immediately after stretching and quadricep strength reduced for 2 hours after static stretching. Running sprint times increased after 20 second static stretches of hip and leg muscles.

They conclude by saying "available evidence suggests pre-exercise stretching is detrimental to maximal strength, strength-endurance, jumping height and sprinting time. Stretching should not be performed before exercise. Instead, warm-ups should consist of aerobic activites that are likely to prevent injury and improve performance". I have omitted how they set up these controls for these tests as they are far too detailed to describe them here.

I don't know about anyone else on this forum but I no longer stretch before footbagging. Instead I only do easy cardiovascular exercise such as erging (indoor rowing). No injuries to speak of since following this protocol.

What do others think after reading this new research?

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 08 Jul 2006 16:50

i think that i will continue to stretch, not for my health, but for the flexibility benifits that follow. Wait, in 10 years they will say the exact opposite, thats what always happens

SandWraith · Post by **SandWraith** » 08 Jul 2006 16:52

I'll still stretch. There are too many muscles involved for me to simply engage in cardio warm-ups. Not only are there too many muscles, but there are ligaments and tendons that I have to stretch, most of them because I tweaked them in the past when I didn't stretch them. So while I think this makes a lot of sense for exercises that involve only a certain fixed group of muslces, particularly running or weightlifting, I think footbag may lie outside the realm of this idea due to the quantity of muscles that must be warmed up.

hackeysnacker · Post by **hackeysnacker** » 08 Jul 2006 17:25

note that this is about STATIC stretches BEFORE sports activities.

Iron Clad Ben · Post by **Iron Clad Ben** » 08 Jul 2006 17:41

5 years ago everyone came out and said that bread was bad for you because it had lots of carbs. Give me a fucking break.

What I took from the article is that static stretching before exercise doesn't reduce risk of injury (for runners only?) and decreases muscle strength immediately after. I don't think reduced muscle strength will hurt shred ability.

In footbag we stretch for flexibility during shred. For me, the difference in my ability to hit tricks increases dramatically if I stretch beforehand. It's possible that it's psychosomatic but I doubt it.

We stretch afterwards to prevent soreness later on. This is vital for me. Every time I neglect to stretch afterwards I am sore the next day.

One thing to point out is that dynamic stretching is never good! That is basically where you bounce instead of holding the stretch (Static means not moving, dynamic means moving). Dynamic stretching is BAD BAD BAD for your muscles. Always hold your stretches at least 10 seconds.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 08 Jul 2006 17:57

1st Ben, I don't mean to grill you, but I don't think you have enough experience to be jumping to such conclusions yet. You're not getting injured, because you're not doing anything hard yet. nobody gets injured doing basic 2-adds, unless they have *awful* form.

Believe what you want, but don't go telling others what to do until you've got some first-hand experience under your belt.
I've had my share of injuries, and I can tell you that I wouldn't still be playing today if I hadn't got up off my ass and started stretching and conditioning my muscles. I had an injured knee for several months before I decided to stop being lazy and start stretching and working with it -- a week later I was playing again. Having consistently stretched my quads & hamstrings (at the least) before, during, and after my sessions since then, I've yet to to see another knee injury.

Deny it all you want, but I know personally it has worked for me.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 08 Jul 2006 18:00

I think it's best to warm up for a while (5+ minutes) before stretching. Stretching after is important too. It's bad to stretch when your muscles aren't warmed up. I don't really know too much about stretching and workouts, but I think it's pretty commonly understood that stretching without warmup is bad for you and can injure the muscles rather than strengthen them.

hackeysnacker · Post by **hackeysnacker** » 08 Jul 2006 18:32

there's nothing wrong with dynamic stretching if you're warmed up and you know the threshold of your flexibility.. although it certainly would be easy to pull something if you're not warmed up first.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 08 Jul 2006 18:56

I've stretched less times than years (13) I've been playing. Nice to see
science backs up my real world experience.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 08 Jul 2006 23:59

Please realize everyone's body is different. What works for you may not work for the next person. Through EXTENSIVE trial and error I have concluded that without stretching I would not be ripping it nearly as hard as I am right now. Glad to hear you lucked out, Cameron.

(looking forward to meeting you if you're headed to the US Open)

Oroza · Post by **Oroza** » 09 Jul 2006 00:52

some of the responses here are...weird.

he is just passing relative scientific information on to us, its not like its HIS theory. hes not saying dont ever stretch, you SHOULD stretch inbetween and after activity, just maybe not before your warmed up. everyones body is 'essentially' the same nagasake, at least in respect to this, if not, medical science is pointless.

some of you obviously missed some info that was presented, and maybe made up some of your own.

thanks for that ben.

oh and who said bread is bad for you? maybe its not great if your trying to lose weight. again, misinterpreting information.

tumppi · Post by **tumppi** » 09 Jul 2006 03:36

Ben, thats load of bullshit IMO.... but i dont know about running...
we are footbag players and Ben is talkin about RUNNING which is totally different sport than footbag. our sport includes muchmuch more hazards than running, specially with wery good players.

brinard · Post by **brinard** » 09 Jul 2006 06:14

i dont really stretch anythign but my legs, and its just warming them up i think . i warm up my body by jumping, squatting, and moving my arms.

when i dont stretch at all, i usually have a better sesh. im not sore afterwards, or the next day. (only when i play for like 4 hours im sore)
keep in mind, im not you, and i only play for an hour alone everyday.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 09 Jul 2006 07:33

Stretches before the session should be rather short, 10-15 seconds per stretch. If you keep them much longer your "sharpness" decreases (hard to explain in English, sorry).

What I've found pretty good is swinging the legs - it warms you up and "opens" your hip muscles nicely.
Stretching beforehand is a must if you're going to practise new components like atomic and the torquing twist. These two have given me a bit back ache if I haven't stretched first. When you start doing something totally new, you have to learn the right, safe style to perform it.

Warming up before the session is good, and I use stretches too for doing that (plus consecutive clippers and infinities).

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 09 Jul 2006 07:43

hackeysnacker wrote:note that this is about STATIC stretches BEFORE sports activities.

The bit about the white bread... I think Ben Meant that there are healthier alternatives to white bread, due to its relative lack of vitamins/minerals, and complete lack of complex carbs.http://www.antiaginglifeextension.com/h ... 1563&c=&p=

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 09 Jul 2006 08:37

Oroza wrote:everyones body is 'essentially' the same nagasake, at least in respect to this, if not, medical science is pointless.

Really? Why do some players wear their knees down before their hips, and visa versa? Body construction plays a huge roll in footbag. Because of the way my legs are put together, my right hip gets worn down and overtaxed very quickly. Some players have chronic knee injuries. Sure, everyone's body is 'essentially' the same, but that doesn't mean dick when the result is that some people benefit from certain stretching whereas others don't. I find that pertinent to this conversation.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 09 Jul 2006 08:53

Nagasake wrote:Really? Why do some players wear their knees down before their hips, and visa versa?

Technique.

You really should stretch just a little before doing physical exercises, that article is bulldoody. But it's more important to stretch after the work out / shred.

White bread is kura (fubar). Dark bred is healthy.

BenRea · Post by **BenRea** » 09 Jul 2006 12:27

Stephen Barnes wrote:1st Ben, I don't mean to grill you, but I don't think you have enough experience to be jumping to such conclusions yet. You're not getting injured, because you're not doing anything hard yet. nobody gets injured doing basic 2-adds, unless they have *awful* form.

ahhhhemmmm. I can hit multiple 3 adds and a 4 add. hows about you dont judge me.

i knew this would bring up argument but i decided to post the topic anyway, thought it might change some of your thoughts. dont want anyone getting hurt

HooD · Post by **HooD** » 09 Jul 2006 13:24

Ben wrote:dont want anyone getting hurt.

It's appreciated, believe me. It's hard to say what is best for a player since we all have different forms and styles. As long as you slowly warm the muscles and progress your play, you should be doing yourself good whether you're doing that through stretching, light jogging, warm ups, etc. There have been plenty of studies that go both ways, but none of them truly apply to footbag anyways. I always just tell people to listen to their bodies, that is something that can save you some grief. Too many times people can brush off how they feel and that can lead to something like a sprain or strain.

Another thing, this should be in Health & Injuries section.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 09 Jul 2006 13:57

Nagasake wrote:Why do some players wear their knees down before their hips, and visa versa?

My theory, Because they stretch. Stretching provides additional range of motion to the joints. There is no muscular controll over this additional range of motion. With each impact the joint is sliding uncontrollably. Over time, this becomes a chronic injury, because they keep stretching to prevent the injury.

People try to substitute flexibility gained through stretching for range of motion gained through increased muscular development.

Be honest here, Are most footbag injuries joint related,or pulled muscles ?
those with greater flexibility actually experience more injury, particularly if the excessive flexibility compromises joint integrity Surberg 1983; Jones 1997

I wonder what % of people on the injured players roster stretch regularly.