How to determine "Overall champion"

Uranos · Post by **Uranos** » 25 Jul 2006 04:58

Ok, so Vasek only won routines this year, Big3 and Circle shred was by Felix, and Shred was by Jorden.

Who is the Overall World Champion?

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » 25 Jul 2006 05:48

As far as i know, the World Champion has traditionally been whoever was the overall routine champion for Worlds each year. Whether people think thats fair or not is another question. I reckon its cool though.

Good question though; its been easy the last 4 years cos Vasek wins everything he enters, but things changed a little this year...

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 25 Jul 2006 06:29

According to most traditional rankings, Vasek would still be #1 in the World, given past years' results. Those around him would inch up, but still not be that close.

Sporatical_Distractions · Post by **Sporatical_Distractions** » 25 Jul 2006 09:03

Uranos wrote: Who is the Overall World Champion?

the 06 net champions

sidekick · Post by **sidekick** » 25 Jul 2006 09:18

It's vasek, hands down. It's always been the one who won the Routines that is the world freestyle champ.

just becuase he didn't do the circle comp, and didn't do great in the shred 30 doesn't make him any less of a maniac in the shred circle. I heard that he didn't play much in the circles this year, but he's still the best.

Even if he wasn't the best shredder, and he still won the routines, then he still would be the world champion of freestyle. So, for instance, lets say somone like me won the routines at worlds (let's pretend I can go for 2 minutes without dropping) and for some reason, it flowed so well with the music and I hit fives and hard tricks that also went with the beat, and I won. Well, I may be the freestyle champ, but I still wouldn't be the best shredder in the world. The same applies for the reverse, if I was the best shredder in the world (now we're really getting fictional), but I couldn't get into the finals for the routines, I wouldn't be the best freestyler in the world.

So I guess the whole point is that the world Freestyle Champ and the Best Shredder in the world can be two different people, and just becuase vasek didn't beat EVERYONE at EVERYTHING this ONE time, it doesn't mean that he isn't the best freestyler in the world.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 25 Jul 2006 09:37

He's 4 1/3 time Champion, now.

sen · Post by **sen** » 25 Jul 2006 20:46

There isn't an Overall champ this year. There is different champions for different events. Vasek is no longer the 'undisputed' Champion of the World.

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » 26 Jul 2006 01:33

No. Vasek is World Champion.

max · Post by **max** » 26 Jul 2006 02:27

I saw his 30s shred and he seemed to have gone in there more because he was asked to than if he really wanted to win it. i mean he even repeated a ripwalk... it's not like he doesn't have much variety.. So I don't know. I still think that he's head and shoulders above the rest.

Uranos · Post by **Uranos** » 26 Jul 2006 05:24

Lets get this straight - This isnt an argument for who is the best, i think we all know Vasek is head and shoulders above the rest.

Ok, if it was another competition and Person A won shred, B won routine, C won circle and D won Sick 3, who is the overall champ?

Someone above said that routine has always determined it, but what if:
Person A won routine and Person B won every other event?

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » 26 Jul 2006 10:17

I guess when that happens, then the problem will need to be addressed and the award of the World Champion subject to guidelines or something. Routines has always decided it so even if someone else won everything else, the routine winner would still be World Champ under the current 'system'.
Im not saying that it would be right or wrong.
Right now though, the answer to your initial question is: Vasek.

dyalander · Post by **dyalander** » 26 Jul 2006 15:24

Yeah I'm pretty sure Ian's right, the convention has been ot call the winner of routines "world champion". I am sure if you check out the hallo f fame website you'll find plenty of years in which there have been different winners of the different events offered, both before and after shred 30 was one of those events and "the world champ." always refers to the routines winner.

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 26 Jul 2006 19:57

You are wrong, I'm pretty sure.

As recently as about 7-10 years ago, there used to be an "overall world champion" who did the best acorss each of the footbag disciplines at Worlds. This overall title existed because most players were not yet specialists in any one genre of footbag- they played all of the disciplines.

As far as I know, they stopped doing an overall champion b/c people are now concerned with winning their specialty event.

Vasek is the World Champion of freestyle routines and Jorden is the Shred 30 World champion. Historically, the routines events have held the most prowess so I would say that the title of freestyle world champion goes to Vasek. However, Vassek is not the overall world champion. That title does not exist anymore.

In order to bring it back, we( freestylers) need to learn how to play net again.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 26 Jul 2006 20:14

Grom kinda beat me to the punch, but yeah, the point I wanted to make is: the concept of who is the overall world champion isn`t carved into stone. Back in the 1980s, freestyle and net were about equally popular, and there was a lot of crossing over between the events. Back then, if you claimed to be "world champion of footbag", you probably meant you did the best overall at worlds. People actively strove to achieve this distinction; they went to Worlds with the goal of competing in every event, and doing well enough that they could claim the title.

Around the mid 90s, freestyle became a lot more technical and challenging. The creation of BAP, and the invention of concepts tiltless and guiltless pushed players to elevate their games. I`m not real familiar with the history of net around this time, but I know that Manu exploded on the scene around this time too, as did Sebastien Verdy. This meant that almost nobody could compete at the top of Open net, and Open freestyle, with the notable exception of Kenny Shults. But even he found the strain of top-competition in both disciplines to be too much, and after that he usually either focussed on one or the other at subsequent worlds.

Starting in the late 90s, freestyle definitely exploded in popularity, while net seemed to decline. I`d argue that both trends are still continuing. While the concept of "overall champion" (net/freestyle/consecs/golf) had been declining throughout the 90s, it was all but dead by the turn of the century. Nobody played golf. Net was on the decline. Timed consecutives? Are you kidding me? The late 90s also saw the emergence of Shred30 contests (which originally were shred45s). It took a few years for them to get tweaked thoroughly, and even as late as 2000 worlds it was a 45 second event that didnt count xdex (or spinning pdx I dont think). Around this time, "number one in the world" meant freestyle. I remember explaining footbag to people at that time, and almost mentioning net as a footnote, whereas just a few years back, it was part of the standard explanation.

In 2000 and 2001, I think Mulroney swept the freestyle events, and around 2001 I think Shred30 had established itself as the second major freestyle competition. When Vasek swept all the freestyle events from 2002-2005, "overall champ" generally seemed to refer to freestyle (no other disciplines counted), and to the overall winner of the freestyle events. Had Shred30 come to be seen as equally prestigious as routines? I don`t think so, but we had the luxury of not having to debate this, or even think about it, since the winner of routines was the same guy as Shred30 for 6 years straight. Now that there is finally a divergence in the results, I think it is a good time to examine what we would mean by `overall champion,` or even if that term has any use for us anymore.

As an old-schooler, I still kinda feel in the back of my mind that "overall champ" refers to routines champion. But I think its healthy to question and debate this question, because even though there may be no definitive, correct answer, this debate can help us clarify to ourselves how we see our sport. Are routines really the best measure/reflection of how we play the game? Is Shred30 a closer, more accurate depiction (string lengthwise yes, technically yes, but stylewise?)? Maybe a few years from now, the Circle Comp winner will be considered the true freestyle champion. I really can`t say, and on a personal level it won`t likely matter much to me, but I am excited to see where we go from here. I`m already ecstatic and awestruck to see how far we`ve come.

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 26 Jul 2006 20:32

Thx for the history Ken. It's always interesting to read how things were, and weird to think that was only a couple of years ago! I love how fast footbag changes

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » 26 Jul 2006 22:55

Sorry if my argument was just pwned by someone more knowledgeable than me (Ken, Grom etc), but just to clarify, i only ever refer to freestyle when i talk about World Champion, or overall champion or whatever, as i see Net as completely separate.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 27 Jul 2006 09:01

Simple formula for overall champion

For each event a player enters and places, they score points towards the overall
Player with the highest score is overall champion.

Place Points
1 => 8
2 => 6
3 => 4
4 => 2
5 => 1
6 => 0

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 27 Jul 2006 19:22

Can't say I've ever understood the "overall champion concept"

Vasek is the routine champion, Felix is the circle and sick 3 champion and Jorden is the shred 30 champion. The person who wins the most events at the olympics isn't the "overall olympic champion" - everybody who wins an event at the olympics is an "olympic champion".

Oroza · Post by **Oroza** » 28 Jul 2006 09:04

I'll just say that when i think of whose best, I think about who had better:
-Style (rhythm, fluidity) like juho
-tecnique (difficulty, unusual tricks...) like jorden

its tricky(yes its a pun), cause when i see interesting tricks they sometimes dont flow so well...so a little style is sacrificed...look at the circle comp( i only saw that short clip someone posted) jordens run is long with a bunch of unconventional(?) stuff, but then right after him juho(?) comes in and just starts POUNDING the musics beat on every step...with conventional moves (whirls...) so what do i like better? i dont know, its like deciding if i like head or cooch better....it depends... who, how...eye of the beholder....

professor · Post by **professor** » 31 Jul 2006 11:43

C-Fan wrote:Maybe a few years from now, the Circle Comp winner will be considered the true freestyle champion.

I think this is going to be the case because the circle comp really captures the essence of footbag in a competitive form. You can get a real good sense of a person's style, technique, consistency, and level of difficulty. The only problem is that the winner is chosen subjectively, but so are many other sports.

As an aside, I think it would've been very interesting to see how Vasek compared to the guys in the final cirlce this year.

modified

How to determine "Overall champion"

How to determine "Overall champion"

Re: How to determine "Overall champion"