Rino Set!

the Executioner · Post by **the Executioner** » 01 Aug 2006 17:01

This is a bent knee clipper, a trick that was invented in the 80's. It's similar to dragonfly, but different. It's not really a set....

I think it's a cool trick, but it has been done. You could alter it a bit though and make it a set...

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 01 Aug 2006 18:20

gangsta wrote:Flying-Blazing, yes.

no it wouldn't be flying blazing, because the flying would be associated with the clipper. after the contact with the clipper, the flying part is done, and since set location and what ever was hit before the set doesn't count towards your next trick, it would be blazing. if you hit flying clipper> torque it's not a flying torque, or if you hit xbd rake> pixie it's not a new set it's just a pixie out of a rake. know what i mean? it's a cool way to hit blazing tricks for sure, but i don't think it's a new set.

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 07:15

How can it not be Flying, if you are in fact, flying when the dex is done? Clearly, it is different than blazing. You don't Have to set it from a flying clipper...

max · Post by **max** » 02 Aug 2006 07:46

I see what Andrew means. If you do a symple swirl, you will be dexing the bag "flying", i.e. both feet off the ground but it's still just a swirl.

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 08:34

It's a symple swirl, not just a swirl. Calling it just a Swirl, is not the whole truth.
I see what he is saying too. It is indeed a: flying clipper > Mid-air whirling set >.

With a blazing set, one foot is on the ground during the dex.
With Symposium blazing, no feet are on the ground during the dex, and you jump off of the dexing leg.
With Flying-blazing, no feet are on the ground, you don't jump off the dexing leg, and you're Much higher than required for Symposium.

This is Freestyle! Flying tricks should Not be limited to dowtime moves, and flying kicks only. There are no flying sets in the current set list. Denying their existence is a backward step in the evolution of freestyle.

You could do something like: Flying Toe pop > Mid-air atomic set > land on toe popping leg, and clipper with the atomic leg. That would be siiiiiiiick, and look different (way sicker) than an atomic clipper, because it IS different, and More difficult.

It should not be simply called Blazing. That would be silly. There would be no way to differentiate between the moves, when it's obvious to anyone watching, that they are different.

Just because you've never seen it before, heard of it, read about, etc, doesnt mean it's not possible, or that it doesnt exist. This is a game of Limitless possibilities.

max · Post by **max** » 02 Aug 2006 09:40

I understand why you wouldn't want to call it blazing.

But I still claim that *technically* Andrew's right (as you seem to confirm yourself). To go back to my example, forget about the symple swirl and just think normal swirl. Well you can do normal swirl while doing a little jump (it's surprisingly easy btw). You'd be dexing it while both feet are off the ground. It's still just a swirl, not a flying swirl. If it were, we'd have to congratulate Vasek even more for his flying triple atw.

mikeanello · Post by **mikeanello** » 02 Aug 2006 09:57

It seems to me that the term "flying" in most cases refers to a style of "kick" - flying inside, flying outside, flying clipper. Moves that include downtime dexes prior to the "flying" "kick" have other names, such as dragonfly kick. Recently, delays have been added to the list of flying moves, such as flying clipper delay or flying toe - as seen by Jorden Moire. Based on the observed usage of the term "flying" it would seem that when the bag leaves the foot is when the last trick has finished, and not when the next trick has begun.

Lets use the move Legover and a flying equivalent for examples...

JOB: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > SAME TOE [DEL]
Description: Legover

JOB: FLYING TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > SAME TOE [DEL]
Description: Flying Toe > Legover

As you can see by the description of the flying equivalent, a flying component is the last component of a move and not the first component of a move. The OP OUT following the FLYING TOE is there only to describe orientation.

To hit a Flying Legover, I believe you would have to do the following...

JOB: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > FLYING SAME TOE [DEL]
Description: Flying Legover

In this example, you would be required to perform the legover and the toe set following the dex before any foot plant. So, toe set, jump off the setting foot, legover with the opposite foot, toe catch and set with the dexing foot, plant with the setting foot. I'm sure Jorden Moire could give us an example of this.

Of course there is nothing stopping the footbag community from modifying or ammending to its own dictionary. This is great discussion in that we have something new to think about. Even though the move that sparked this thread may or may not be new, the concept in question certainly is.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 02 Aug 2006 10:20

gangsta wrote:It should not be simply called Blazing. That would be silly. There would be no way to differentiate between the moves, when it's obvious to anyone watching, that they are different.

see that's the thing though, my understanding of jobs leads me to believe that they are the same move, just that there is a flying trick before the blazing set. i'm not saying don't do it, you're right it's freestyle and you're free to style how ever you want, but you also have to understand how jobs work and how components are put together to creat a trick, when one trick ends and another trick begins. it's like when a circle kickers say "check out this new move i made, i call it the super fiddler" and he does toe stall> neck stall> knee bump> inside stall and you try to explain that it's a combo, not a single trick but 4 tricks. i think mike wrote a very good example of the difference between flying and it's use in various moves.

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 10:53

flying clip kick > (no plant while) whirl dex >>

is different then:
clip delay > whirl dex >>

Jobs is not perfect, but I believe that's an accurate description of a set performed mid-air, after a flyer.

We're talking about a SET here....

Flying toe > (no plant while) op out > (no plant while) same toe

Flying Legover?

mikeanello · Post by **mikeanello** » 02 Aug 2006 11:26

Flying Toe > Legover = Flying toe delay, set to legover.

Toe > Flying Legover = Toe set to flying legover as described by me above.

"Flying toe > (no plant while) op out > (no plant while) same toe" describes to me a Flying Toe Delay set to Flying Legover. In this case a person would have to jump up, toe catch, toe set, and perform a legover, toe catch and set all before landing back on the ground. I'm sure it is possible but not highly probable.

Again, one question that needs to be answered is this, "Does the term flying respresent downtime moves that end in a kick or delay only, or can it be used as part of a set?" If we clearly define the term flying, and find that flying may be used in conjunction with sets, only then can we continue to discuss flying sets.

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 11:52

My bad about the flying legover thing. I mean toe kick(hence no [del])... but yea, that move is extreme(ly cool)

(especially if you could pixie out of that before landing!)

"Does the term flying respresent downtime moves that end in a kick or delay only, or can it be used as part of a set?"

In my opinion, It can be used as a part of a set. This formula proves it:
flying clip > (no plant while) whirl dex >>

Obviously, this describes a flying whirling set. What else would you call it???

mikeanello · Post by **mikeanello** » 02 Aug 2006 12:07

"Obviously, this describes a flying whirling set. What else would you call it???"

Good question.

Lets say you did a flying whirling set to clip delay. You could describe that as a flying clipper kick to whirl - only that the whirl dex is done uptime instead of downtime.

When you see a symposium whirl, as done in the style of Vasek where he does a little hop with a low set, would you say that is a symposium whirling clipper delay or just a clipper set symposium whirl?

This really is a good discussion.

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 12:55

mikeanello wrote:Lets say you did a flying whirling set to clip delay. You could describe that as a flying clipper kick to whirl - only that the whirl dex is done uptime instead of downtime.

Yep. Flying Clip. > (no plant while) Whirl >> Clip delay. A better description than "flying clipper kick to whirl - only that the whirl dex is done uptime instead of downtime," Would be "mid-air, uptime whirl, set from flying clipper" or "Rino set clipper." See how easy that is? A dex performed uptime directly after a flying kick/delay, without planting first, is a good definition of a 'flying set.'

mikeanello wrote:When you see a symposium whirl, as done in the style of Vasek where he does a little hop with a low set, would you say that is a symposium whirling clipper delay or just a clipper set symposium whirl?

If it's uptime, it would be a symp whirling clipper. Down or peaktime, it's just a symposium whirl, as Symposium whirl implies Clip delay set >> (no plant) op in/out[dex] > op clip [del]

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 02 Aug 2006 14:03

Yes but all of this discussion is, somewhat, irrelevant unless someone posts a video of a new move. Thus far all that has been shown is a move that hackers hit back in the early 90's.

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 14:12

Ben did Hit Flying clipper > (no plant while) Whirl >> pdx mirage, and Flying clipper > (no plant while) Whirl >> Butterfly. In the video, They're admittedly a little sketchy, but it has been hit cleanly, many a time since we shot that video. Is anyone able to slow them down to check the cleanliness? Im not able to... Theyre the last tricks in the vids, btw.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 02 Aug 2006 14:18

Thanks for clearing up what rino set really is:

person A: did you see that gyro dlo?
person B: dude it was totally a spinning pdx dlo
person A: no way!
person B: nice rino set dude

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 14:35

Edit: I was going to post a reply to your post Nate, but you edited it first. Woops!

No problem on clearing that up.

Lackey82 · Post by **Lackey82** » 02 Aug 2006 15:03

Props on a cool move.

As others have said, it's not new, though, so it's not a Rino set. Period.
Maybe it's Flying Clipper > Blazing/Whirling Whatever
Maybe Whirl Kick > Whatever
Maybe even Xbd Dragonfly...

In my opinion, everyone who has watched the video knows what we're talking about. I don't think much further discussion is needed. Screw breaking it down into adds, into Job's, into finite components. It's a cool set/move.

P.S. And for God's sake, do it both sides!

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 02 Aug 2006 15:10

Lackey82 wrote:As others have said, it's not new, though, so it's not a Rino set. Period.

Do you have a video then? That's all that's lacking here. No more discussion is needed; you're right. We just need the video

Lackey82 wrote:Screw breaking it down into adds, into Job's, into finite components. It's a cool set/move.

Noone's even suggested add count... Job's notation is definitely the most efficient method of explaining any move (assuming you know jobs..)

Flying clip > (No plant while) Whirl >>

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 02 Aug 2006 15:23

Good discussion indeed. Is there no reason we can't call uptime sets after flying contacts 'flying sets', or something else? But there's no reason we can't give that a name, which would make it much easier to communicate what the person is doing, and I for one think flying sets are sweet and would love to see more of them.

Props Ben! Although not new, and cleanliness on the video is questionable, it's super cool, keep hitting it

Could you upload another video of the newer cleaner version??