Nemesis Head Count

[Iron Clad Ben]

How good it is to be a Toe To Toe player. Noone tell you your Nemesis is The .

Cod can you hit terraging DSO? That's like, toe nemisis. Do your thing, man.

[zeroman13]

Cod can you hit terraging DSO? That's like, toe nemisis. Do your thing, man.

I would love to see this! (sorry for the off topicness)

[janis]

I've hit it both sides but I couldn't say if they were clean or not.

I saw you hit one at Aussie champs, it looked clean to me at the time.

LMAO it was so 'the'

I never saw the video, oh well

[Cod]

Terraging DSO is so imposible at the moment. It's a lot harder than Nemesis. I think if we are looking at difficulty of the trick, Sailing DLO can be a Toe "Nemesis".

[janis]

toe barraging DSO would be a possible toe "nemisis".
go for it Cod

I'm curious who has hit nemisis on tape, this way we can see if it's clean.

[sniikeri]

"Full toe" Nemesis would be toe barraging double illusion. I'd kill to see that trick.

[C-Fan]

but I've hit moves like furious dlo with that furious side which is presumably clean and pdx dlo is about as hard as barfly probably. So I guess there is a good chance at least one of the times I've hit nemesis on both sides were clean.

This argument really popped out at me as being very suspect. Spinning osis and blizzard are roughly equally difficult, but if a noobie told be they hit spinning osis, I wouldn't doubt it was clean. It's pretty hard to the any part of that trick. But if a noobie told me they hit blizzard on the other hand, I'd be somewhat skeptical, because there are more "danger zones" in that trick where you could easily hit it uncleanly. The step could be slurred, and even pros miss illusions.

Similarly, while one could argue that barfly and pdlo are roughly equal in difficulty, I think it's much harder to argue that they are equally hard to "the." How many fogs do you see with a "the" pdlo? Compare that to how many "the" blurriests you have seen. Same with pdlo vs. barfly. Just because you can hit a clean pdlo off a set, and just because pdlo and barfly are near each other in difficulty, does not logically lead to the conclusion that you can hit a clean barfly off the same set.


I also wanted to say that I agree with Honza's comment about clean nemeses. In this thread alone, several people have called "the" nemeses "clean," which I think is a perfect illustration of why people shouldn't claim this trick without video proof. Nemesis is an extremely hard trick to clean. That's part of what makes it so cool, and such an achievement. If everybody relaxes their standards and starts calling "the" nemeses as clean, it cheapens the achievement of those who actually have hit it cleanly. Don't hate on people like Honza and Mike for telling it like it is. "The" isn't a value judgment, it's an objective observation of reality, intended to help people get better.

[Ners]

You think Szymon's "nemesis" during the circle was clean.....................
You must be kidding, right??!!

The Barfly was toey but it was there - I wouldn't call it the as I didn't miss the dexes. Of course it could be deeper.

Szymon Kałwak (Ners)

[Jeremy]

but I've hit moves like furious dlo with that furious side which is presumably clean and pdx dlo is about as hard as barfly probably. So I guess there is a good chance at least one of the times I've hit nemesis on both sides were clean.

This argument really popped out at me as being very suspect. Spinning osis and blizzard are roughly equally difficult, but if a noobie told be they hit spinning osis, I wouldn't doubt it was clean. It's pretty hard to the any part of that trick. But if a noobie told me they hit blizzard on the other hand, I'd be somewhat skeptical, because there are more "danger zones" in that trick where you could easily hit it uncleanly. The step could be slurred, and even pros miss illusions.

Similarly, while one could argue that barfly and pdlo are roughly equal in difficulty, I think it's much harder to argue that they are equally hard to "the." How many fogs do you see with a "the" pdlo? Compare that to how many "the" blurriests you have seen. Same with pdlo vs. barfly. Just because you can hit a clean pdlo off a set, and just because pdlo and barfly are near each other in difficulty, does not logically lead to the conclusion that you can hit a clean barfly off the same set.

I think you've missed the point completely - probably because you seem set on constantly disagreeing with everything I say.

The point was that if my furious set is good enough to hit a pdx dlo out of it, it's probably good enough to hit a clean barfly out of it. How people have you seen that can hit fog but have never hit a clean blurriest. I didn't at all say that all my nemesis are clean - in fact I basically said that I think most of them are not clean but that since I am fairly sure I can hit a clean furious dlo, that I think there is a good chance I may have once hit a clean nemesis on that side. I don't think there is anything suspect about that arguement at all.

[HG]

How people have you seen that can hit fog but have never hit a clean blurriest..

*raises hand*

[C-Fan]

How people have you seen that can hit fog but have never hit a clean blurriest..

*raises hand*

Yeah, me too. In Japan there are a few. There's also a bit of a difference between "can" hit fog, and "have" hit fog. If a set is inconsistent, I can see somebody flukily hitting fog (or nebula) and getting it clean, but I wouldn't make the leap from there to assume that that means they can hit clean blurriest (or nemesis).

[Zjeezy]

How people have you seen that can hit fog but have never hit a clean blurriest..

I hit blurriest twice, once was clean. but i can hit fog bsos a lot.
[/i]

[Jeremy]

well lets assume I know my own game well enough to think that I have probably hit at least one clean nemesis on both sides.

[footymatt]

I've seen David C. hit nemy clean at the 2006 east coast champs, on stage, at a free public show, on the first try, under pressure, with many a footbagger watchin'. Really cool ta see. I got it on video. I just can't post it yet. I ain't paid my dues.

[JeffRichards]

How many have hit Nemesis b2b? I know Clavens has.... and i assume Vasek has?

[Maraxus]

Clavens and Vaska are the only ones, probably for some time too

[Mathochist]

How many have hit Nemesis b2b? I know Clavens has.... and i assume Vasek has?

Ooooooh! Really? How recently? Last I read, dc was commenting that most players, since they can't even hit it once, can't appreciate how hard it is back to back. But I'd love that vid if it's available.

[Matt K]

I think it's in one of the New Years Jam videos; along with stuff like Nemesis>Whirlygig Swirl.

[Will Digges]

I'm pretty sure I've hit it clean, i hit a really clean arch nemesis on video.

[Genzu]

Clavens and Vaska are the only ones, probably for some time too

This sport seems to be growing faster than I can keep up with. I think that before worlds there may be a few others added to this list, and I'm nearly positive that Jim will hit it back to back before Worlds. I've seen him land it BSOS before.

Terraging DSO is so imposible at the moment. It's a lot harder than Nemesis. I think if we are looking at difficulty of the trick, Sailing DLO can be a Toe "Nemesis".

I agree and disagree here. It's harder only because most everyone focuses more on clipper moves (especially furious sets), I think partly because of the extra add for clipper. Since I haven't worked my furious set at all, and I was the person that coined the term terrage, and probably the first to land enterrage, I think that terraging DSO would be easier (for me) than nemesis (particularly muted style - though this is admittedly a different trick, even though judged the as the same). I think that this move is actually even possible from outside set to outside, if you really want to get crazy - I've landed the 3 dex version, though only enterrage style, not pixie DSO style - Still got to work on that one.

Enough blabbering for now. Time to sew .

Peace.