dragon variation: flipper (?)

mc · Post by mc » 23 Aug 2006 11:13

I expect to hear from Jon Schneider about this, and I am not sure if he's going to be all for it or not...

Yesterday I started trying some dragon stepping, and I could not do it from xbd outside stall, but I could easily do it from xbd outside of the ankle at the cuff of the shoe stall. I did ripwalks starting, and ripwalks ending, in this stall both sides, with little trouble. you can get your foot a lot lower with one of these stalls than with a dragon, and because of that, I think it makes this particular delay open to some interesting possibilities.

So, i propose calling this delay "flipper". The only confusion I see with this word would come from the move flipwalk, which is done from dragon and not what I've described.

I think this delay is very doable, and much easier to play into and out of than dragon. I can't wait to see what else I can do from it next time I play (maybe tomorrow).

What do you all think? I'm curious to know.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 23 Aug 2006 12:52

I expect to hear from Jon Schneider about this

My ears have been ringing...

I could not do it from xbd outside stall, but I could easily do it from xbd outside of the ankle at the cuff of the shoe stall.

Yeah, I've always had this same experience with this stuff. Some dragon moves work better caught right in the middle of the outside surface, some work better caught at that bend in the ankle. Some sets come off better from the middle of the outside, some only work if you set them from that crook in the ankle.

None-the-less, I've never really thought of them as different surfaces. I think maybe because a stalling surface, to me, isn't only about the actual place on your foot where the bag is, but the posture your body must assume to stall it there. So while middle of the outside is not precisely the same as outside of the ankle, the posture you stand in IS the same. For instance, Anchor and Dragon are both cross-body outside stalls, but its that difference in posture that makes them different tricks.

I don't really love the notion of these (dragon and flipper) as two different surfaces, but...

I used to feel a sort of ownership of dragons, like, I should have the final word on any of this stuff. I don't feel that way now. It was never true, but that wasn't obvious to me. Now, more people are hitting some dragon stuff that I've never done, using them in some different ways (gumble), etc, making it obvious (Nick's Flipwalk looks way nicer than mine, damn it

) I'm open to at least debating the notion. But now you know my position on the debate. Some people are lumpers and some are splitter. I'm a lumper. I like to lump things together into the same category (paradon, barfly, down double are all the same, starting from one toe or the other isn't enough to call them different, etc...), and thus I'd lump dragon and flipper together as essentially the same thing.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 23 Aug 2006 14:33

They are different things, hence they should have different names.

I agree that this surface is alot more playable, I don't think it is a 'cheap dragon', it is it's own thing and if you do it on purpose that's sweet and cool.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 24 Aug 2006 07:42

I was able to step out of dragon that way, way back when we were all in vegas for the jam&wedding. I never did another dragon after I met jon. He threatened to rough me up for taking his tricks.

I never thought it was a different surface, it's just landing the bag in a different spot on the same dragon stance.

I catch my stepping sets near my toe, but like to spin off the heel. Should I rename one of my clipper stalls ? I think it's the same type of thing.

sidekick · Post by **sidekick** » 24 Aug 2006 09:16

Tsiangkun wrote:I was able to step out of dragon that way, way back when we were all in vegas for the jam&wedding. I never did another dragon after I met jon. He threatened to rough me up for taking his tricks.

I never thought it was a different surface, it's just landing the bag in a different spot on the same dragon stance.

I catch my stepping sets near my toe, but like to spin off the heel. Should I rename one of my clipper stalls ? I think it's the same type of thing.

The man knows what he's talking about

mc · Post by mc » 24 Aug 2006 09:38

great responses everyone, I really appreciate them. I am definitely leaning towards considering it a dragon caught in a slightly different spot. I like cameron's analogy, and I'm glad that the two people I most wanted to hear from about it (jon and nick) are in concurrence.

Jon, do you catch your dragons at this ankle spot when you do flipwalk?

blitz · Post by **blitz** » 25 Aug 2006 15:09

Sorry, 'Flipper' is floating clipper stall. I called it (like "I call shotgun!").

by floating, I mean like Foe (floating toe).

mc · Post by mc » 25 Aug 2006 16:59

well, sounds like the deal is pretty much sealed all around on this, then

thanks for input, guys. I did more dragon stepping from this stall today, and I'm loving it. it's like a whole new world of awesomeness has been opened to me.