Double Whirl (Whirr)

Rockey · Post by **Rockey** » 10 Dec 2005 09:18

Double Whirl (Whirr)
SET > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD][DEL]

I need some advice for double whirl. I hit it both sides a while ago but haven't really done them since because they're hard on the knees and I couldn't get them dialed. I was working on them yesterday and would like to get them into my game. Here are some questions I have:

-Do you point your toes making a straight line down your ankle when you do a whirr? I do this with all other whirling moves, but the trouble I have while doing this with whirr is that my first dex is too huge and my foot is too far away from the bag to get the second dex. In other words, pointing toes helps for single whirling moves because it makes the dex very fast and moves your leg very quickly. However, it seems like whirr requires tighter dexing.

-How high to set?

-First dex low or high?

-Should this feel like a muted symp. whirling ss whirl? Or should it have its own unique feel like DATW as opposed to pixie ss muted pickup.

Any tips guys? Jorden? Jeremy?[/b]

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 15 Dec 2005 01:58

Sorry I just saw this topic and I don't have much time to comment right now - here are a couple of things:

1. I do point my toe a little but I had to get up and hit the move and look what I'm doing to notice - I didn't consciously know and I don't think about trying to point my toe at all.

2. Set is fairly low - somewhere between knee and waist height I guess. Usually if it's too low it'll be "the" so it's important to get some height on the set but too much makes the move harder.

3. First dex is really done on the way up and happens as the bag is peaking.

4. To me it feels like a mix of symple muted whirling ss whirl and a double atw kind of move - when I learnt the move I definitely thought of it as whirling ss whirl but as I've improved on it I've started hitting it as a single move rather than breaking up the dexes. I don't know if you notice any difference or not.

The key to this move is definitely being able to hit a symposium whirling set - the way the dex starts is just like a symposium whirl and if you can get out a good controlled symp whirling set and have a strong downtime whirl then you'll definitely be able to hit it. Don't push yourself if you don't have those things - you can easily damage your knees on this move.

Good luck

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 15 Dec 2005 21:13

And now a tip from the real Jeremy:

first, do you actually have a whirling set yet? if you dont, you need to learn that first. i think whirr has nothing to do with symp whirling set, but everything to do with a whirl set.

Assuming you do, then you're ready for my personal anecdote: what I needed to improve to hit whirr was the precision and path of my dexes. I found that at first I would whirl uptime, bring my leg back down, and then try to whirl a second time. Because of the wide circumference of my dexes, however, I had too little time to complete the dexes before the bag fell. It took about 2 weeks before I built up the strength in my hamstring to adequately control my lower leg to make smaller and more precise circles around the bag. The 2 keys to this move are being able to dex the bag on the way up and having the strength to stop your leg from returning to a lower position after the first dex, so that your leg only has to make a minmal movement to complete the second dex. I think you just really have to practice dexing smaller to hit this move. My dexes, while somewhat tight, are still much larger than for example, Jorden's dexes for whirr. His are like super tiny.

Anyhow, I can show you what I think about whirr in Chicago in 12 days, unless youve already gotten it by then

ShredOnLawn · Post by **ShredOnLawn** » 16 Dec 2005 05:28

Use your hamstring to pull your ankle straight back toward your butt. This will keep your knee aligned correctly and prevent injury and help with dex speed.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 16 Dec 2005 19:52

Senor Grommet wrote:And now a tip from the real Jeremy:

first, do you actually have a whirling set yet? if you dont, you need to learn that first. i think whirr has nothing to do with symp whirling set, but everything to do with a whirl set.

If you watch slow mos of Vasek or Jorden (for example) hitting whirr you'll see the first dex starts well before the setting foot has touched the ground... This is the way I learnt to hit the move and I can hit it consistantly into and out of almost all my moves (apart from moves ending in osis at this stage) on one side and with some consistancy on the other (but not so good).

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 16 Dec 2005 20:18

Really? I challenge you to define "well before" (as in the first dex starts well before the setting foot has touched the ground) because i think you're full of it. The same can be said for ANY set (for example stepping set), that the first dex starts well before the setting foot has touched the ground, but we all know that stepping has nothing to do with symposiumness nor is it symposium-like. You dont need to be good at symosium to hit stepping set. There is nothing symposium at all about stepping, or about whirr.

The words you used above define a "set" but they really have nothing to do with the move whirr (IMO).

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 16 Dec 2005 22:38

word.

Sporatical_Distractions · Post by **Sporatical_Distractions** » 18 Dec 2005 11:28

Senor Grommet wrote: first, do you actually have a whirling set yet? if you dont, you need to learn that first. i think whirr has nothing to do with symp whirling set, but everything to do with a whirl set.

I agree completely

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 19 Dec 2005 00:24

Well I got my tips on whirr directly from Ales when he was in Australia and I found it greatly improved my whirrs to the stage that I can hit the move on demand in pants when I'm drunk and back to back on both sides. However if you hit the move differently that's fine. I'm not going to argue about the best way of hitting whirr. I just find that personally starting the first dex symposium helps me immensly and I personally think my whirr is very strong.

Again I suggest you watch a video of Vasek or Felix or Jorden frame by frame and I think they definitely start the move symposium.

Anyway whatever - do the move which ever way you think is right. Symposium works for me and I see little point in criticising other methods if they work. Clearly from watching the latest videos from me, my method works very successfully.

full nelson · Post by **full nelson** » 19 Dec 2005 01:28

I always thought of it as a whirling set whirl myself. Agree with JM.

I set around knee height.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 03 Jan 2006 08:11

I asked Jorden for tips on whirr 2 days ago. He says he does the first dex as fast as possible, and actually thinks of it as a muscle twitch. I asked him if he thought of the first dex as more of a symp whirl or more of a whirl, and he looked at me like I was a moron. He says he definitely doesn't think of it as a symp whirl. He also said he doesn't think of the set as high. I haven't tried out his tips yet (had knee trouble last month), but the move looked so easy for him, I want to give it a go soon. I'll post here if I make any progress, since I'm also pretty much starting from zero on this trick.
Good luck!

janis · Post by **janis** » 12 Aug 2006 22:34

Where should the knee and hip be pointed for this trick?

edit: should the toes be curled? and is it a good idea to do hamstring strengthening exercises?

janis · Post by **janis** » 16 Sep 2006 05:13

any tips for toe set whirr would be appreciated

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 16 Sep 2006 06:17

Hmm... Janis... I'm fairly sure Vasek is the only person to hit downtime whirr... unless someone's been hiding it, or everyone knows and I'm just a n00b...

I would reccomend you learn clipper set whirr first, toe set whirr would be mecca hard

Matt K · Post by **Matt K** » 16 Sep 2006 09:56

I think Jorden's Toe Whirr was mostly downtime, if not all.

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 16 Sep 2006 21:27

Ah OK, I didn't know he'd hit toe whirr. Not that I'm surprised.

Matt K · Post by **Matt K** » 17 Sep 2006 17:55

It's in Gym Session, 3 or 4 minutes in.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 19 Sep 2006 21:20

janis wrote:Where should the knee and hip be pointed for this trick?

edit: should the toes be curled? and is it a good idea to do hamstring strengthening exercises?

a couple points of advice:

- whirling set whirl
- the knee should roughly in the same spot
- when you begin the dex put all your weight onto your support foot and lean away from the dex, this allows for more free movement
- don't crank your ankle or point your toe during the whirl (but this is more for whirls in general), it makes the execution of the dex less of a struggle when fewer muscles are contracting

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 20 Sep 2006 05:47

That's interesting, I always thought you were supposed to hold crank throughout? I think it looks cooler, and I feel like I have more control that way, it sort of 'stiffens' my leg, it feels more precise. I hold crank throughout drifters as well.

Anyone else have an opinion?

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 20 Sep 2006 11:46

I point my toe, but not consiously, I think its about whatever feels most comfortable.

As far as tips go, I'd say do it about 6 hundred thousand times without the bag. Practice both continuose whirl motions, and double whirls. Start slow and gradualy increase the speed, until its second nature and pain free.