What about a Freestyle Hack Circle?

[shredzilla]

So I got to thinking...

For a long time I used to play hackysack. And I played it A LOT. Probably not as much as I do footbag now but a lot. Anyway, I somehow always managed to find a circle. And we'd always bust a few tricks and then pass. (I was crazy with the head stalls). I didn't actually learn toe or clipper until almost the time that I started footbag.

Anyway back on track, now that I'm a freestyler, and I know I can 'keep the bag up', why not have some circles with other freestylers that can also do that, and play hackysack? But it'd be mostly like a short-medium run>a couple kicks to get it back in control>then pass. You could like highlight just a few moves and then pass it. And then try to see if we could get a hack doing that.

It's just when I go to tournaments and join a hack cirlce, it's always hackers. And that's cool, and it's fun. But I think it'd be fun to have a hack circle with just freestylers. Players in the cirlce could just highlight a few moves and then pass it. And then try to see if we could get a hack doing that. I bet you'd get some intense 'hack circle moments' from that. And I'm sure they did a lot of that back in the old schooler's day.

Anyway, I'm sure people still do some of that now, I just haven't seen much of that stuff. I guess in essense it's similar to Circle Comp, but this would be more based around actually getting the hack. That would be an important element.

I guess if it were an event, the circle would go until it was a full hack, and like even beyond that until it dropped. So like, then after each hack, the judges would write down a winner for each 'hack' or 'rally'. If the hack dropped, the circle would start over; judging would start over. If the players made it through one hack, that would be tallied. So even if they dropped midway to the 2nd 'rally' that first full hack would be counted.

If they made it through a full rally, both full hacks would be counted, and players would get a score for each one. I guess you could basically have the same 3 rounds of Circle Comp too. So that would leave a potential of minimum 3 hacks, but it could go up to like 12 full hacks with a team of top freestylers. Obviously whoever gets the most points tallied up at the end wins.

/idea

[smokefree]

I used to hack circle. Even when I started freestyling i would toe stall and atw into a pass lol. Everyone was like Man i sucked then. Anyway the point is, its a good way to introduce people to get aquainted with the sport. And kinda fun.

[janis]

this kinda reminds me of what I did with some of the guys I used to kick with. We would try to get "hacks" with freestyle moves or combos. For example when we went for a mirage hack(we often did harder stuff too ) we would do a mirage and pass it on to the next person until we got around the whole circle without the bag hitting the ground. Its great fun, especially because it combines the challenge of freestyle with the group aspect of circle kicking.

[bigdirtyfoot]

I definitely like doing this - but mainly just for fun. I don't really understand how it could be an event. I mean, it's similar to circle competition I think.

[shredzilla]

I definitely like doing this - but mainly just for fun. I don't really understand how it could be an event. I mean, it's similar to circle competition I think.

Yeah, it's definitely very similar. If anything it would basically BE a Circle Comp, just with a couple of new aspects. Also I don't know if I mentioned up there, but half hacks wouldn't count. You would have to get at least 3 full hacks to constitute a match. I think the cool thing about it would be it would more clearly define the circles. Now there would be NO time limit at all, just full hacks. Another thing I was thinking, was players could get penalized for dropping the bag. Giving them incentive to go for the hack, and also making it a gamble to go for higher moves. Kinda like how the Circle Comp is now, but I think this would add more pressure and excitement.

Anyway, it was just an idea I thought I'd share that I got while doing laundry. Maybe if I ever help organize an event I'll do a test run if people wanted to try it out.

[footymatt]

without getting all crazy, just basicly the only way I play, aside from solo shred.

David Clavins? Interesting.... : )

[kyle]

Freestyle hacks are ah lot of fun - but as far as circle comp goes; i have no idea how the judges could keep track of what what runs do and don't count. Even if the circle comp was recorded for judging, it would still be a bitch to edit out all the half-hacks. It does sound intense, but judging it would be crazy.

[Iron Clad Ben]

[MatS21]

It really sounds cool, and like you I was playing that way before getting into freestyle. But I don't think it should be a comp because that way you can keep the ball as long as you wan't and even drop it because there is no penalty for dropping.

[Anexthesis]

Oh man that picture is freakin' hilarious

[Psilocybe]

I think the problem with this idea is that freestylers have TOO MUCH control. We're just too good for hackysack. Think about it, didn't the best "hacky sack moments" stem from someones lack of control? They would lose control of the bag and someone would amazingly save it.

The fun of hack comes from everyones lack of skill.

[shredzilla]

LMAO!

ANYwho, I don't really think a lot of people grasp the concept of my idea. I mean, 4Square has nothing to do with freestyle or net or anything, but people understand that. Hopefully one day I'll be able to get the chance to try this out with hackysackers. I actually got the idea from one of the Tempe, Arizona players who mentioned that he had a hackysack league with competitions before he discovered freestyle. Maybe that's where this idea belongs. As a bridge from hackysack to freestyle.

Oh, and to answer someone's comment above, players WOULD be penalized for dropping the bag. That's the whole point. You can't just sit there and show off for 30 seconds and then pass, unless you're that good. Another thing I'm not sure if I conveyed would be at higher skill levels, same rules would apply for guilting and tilting, etc. It's still a freestyle circle, so you obviously couldn't do a great run>kick>great run>pass. Within reason of course. (Matt's butt stalls don't count as a guilt )

The current Circle Comp doesn't hold up like a true 'Circle' to me. More like 'Take Turns'. Players are EXPECTED to drop after an amazing run. Not that any player tries to, it's just after like a 25 contact fearless run capped off with some 5s and a 6, you're not really expecting a pass.

Also, just from a spectator standpoint, I think Circle Comp isn't very strongly defined. There's no clear definitive way to tell who won a round. Each player gets way too many turns, and you can't tally up all that stuff in your head if you're not a very skilled freestyler. With my format, the 'rounds' would just be hacks. They would be a lot shorter rounds, unless the bag kept going around for more hacks. The announcer could say 'We have a hack' or 'We have one full circle!' and then the bag keeps going. At least spectators would be able to see more clearly who won each 'round'.

A typical round would go: Full hack>2nd full hack>half of a hack>drop. That would essentially be Round 1, and players would be scored for the two full hacks they completed that round. Then you'd have 2 more of those rounds. Announcing the hacks as they come would at least give definition to the circle. We have good emcees in our sport, but as a spectator, I cannot follow the way they time the Circle events, and what's going on. I just feel lost until the end of the round and then I say oh, I think that person did better.

I guess the downside to my idea is that it does bring back that dreaded hackysack element which we all want to bury as deep into the ground as possible lol. But I think it helps for spectating, judging, and continuity.

Eh, it's just my take, and I'm not offended if people don't think this idea is any good, but I do think it could have a place somewhere, even if to help recruit new players through the hackysack element.

-Chris

[Drew]

yo chris, I think this is a good idea! I believe the last time you came to Temple we talked about hack circles around campus, and it's relatively easy to find a circle or start one.

When Carrie and I began learning the basic footbag tricks like xb-rake and clipper, we began involving them into hack circles, and people were pretty impressed by it.

At first other people became interested and tried doing more advanced tricks, like ATW and random stalls, jester, etc.,

But I think once the rest of the ppl in our regular hack circle saw that we were playing a *good* deal more than them and progressing faster, they became frustrated.

Now, a hack circle with freestylers would be much different, everyone can recognize work and effort put in and have a good time.

I think the only reason this might not work out is because from what I've seen in my short time shredding, at jams and sessions with people you don't usually play with, it's more fun to shred hard and show what you can bust out, instead of just a few tricks at a time in a hack circle.

So, I would definitely be up for a freestyle hack circle, but I'm not sure it would catch on with many people.

[C-Fan]

I kind of don't understand how the whole "hack aspect" would work. If I'm in a circle with Clavens, and he busts a crazy run, wouldn't it be strategically in my interest to drop the bag, thereby nullifying the round (since it wasn't a hack)?

In Circle Comp people sometimes drop when their turn is up, and sometimes they don't drop and instead pass. Same deal in a normal hack circle. I guess I don't really see the advantage to this "freestyle hack" idea. If anything, it would make people play more conservatively, which is less interesting, at least in my opinion.

Also, just from a spectator standpoint, I think Circle Comp isn't very strongly defined. There's no clear definitive way to tell who won a round. .

I don't see how this is any clearer in a "freestyle hack circle."

Maybe it would help if I saw this event run. Just based on the description though, I don't see how this is any better than circle comp.

[Tsiangkun]

I could see this working as a team event.

My five man team vs yours.

Must get a full hack to score.
Scores is based on what happened during the full hack.

[C-Fan]

Hm, that's an interesting idea. It could be really good at worlds, like, Finland vs. Canada or something. Good suggestion Cameron.

[quadgun]

I don't think David Clavens should have been a choice in the poll.
People like me will vote "David Clavens" instead of an answer that would help you out in your original question.

anywho ... at nyj this year zach jachner, ben (i think) from michgan, and i did something like what you explained in your first post
some people tried joining us, but they had a hard time not freestyling ... eventhough when they came in the circle .. we clearly said no freestyling ..

GOOD IDEA THOUGH!

[shredzilla]

I kind of don't understand how the whole "hack aspect" would work. If I'm in a circle with Clavens, and he busts a crazy run, wouldn't it be strategically in my interest to drop the bag, thereby nullifying the round (since it wasn't a hack)?

Yeah, I thought about that. That's why I guess somehow the penalty would have to be stiff enough to deter a player from doing that. And it does force players to play more conservatively, but again, I think this serves as to heighten the excitement for casual spectators and not just other footbaggers.

Also, just from a spectator standpoint, I think Circle Comp isn't very strongly defined. There's no clear definitive way to tell who won a round.

I don't see how this is any clearer in a "freestyle hack circle."

Maybe it would help if I saw this event run. Just based on the description though, I don't see how this is any better than circle comp.

Yeah, I guess I'm still just thinking for casual spectators that it would seem obvious to them that when the bag went around for a full hack, they'd notice since that's a common hackysack element. Though maybe only hackers would see that? The emcee could help with that though: "All players must get a chance with the bag to complete a round, or the Circle starts over."

I like Cameron's idea too, thanks guys for commenting on this. It really was a casual idea that came to me, but I guess I felt like posting it because it seemed like a good one. I'm not really expecting much so I appreciate your input. Thanks Kamil for your encouragement, my apologies for putting Clavens in the poll, he was meant to deter bad votes!

After thinking about it more and more, I really do feel this would be a great event for hackysackers to help introduce them to freestyle.

[david]

Lol, why am I an option, and why did people vote for me?

I don't have time to read this whole thread, so sorry if I'm missing something.

[Pyroman924]

Thanks Kamil for your encouragement, my apologies for putting Clavens in the poll, he was meant to deter bad votes!