Abstinence-only Sexual Education

professor · Post by **professor** » 18 Apr 2007 15:29

Abstinence should be taught whether kids listen or not because it is the only 100% effective birth control method. I'm not saying other forms shouldn't be taught, but why wouldn't you teach something that is guaranteed to work?

Iron Clad Ben wrote:Basically it shows that statistically the program doesn't work.

Actually, it shows the program works as well as the other sex-ed programs.

jbalexdarkelf wrote:If kids want to have sex it will happen. Hormones is what controls that.

This is a lie. Hormones don't control people. If kids were taught to have a little bit of self control, then maybe we wouldn't need to be teaching 5th graders about birth control.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 18 Apr 2007 15:49

professor wrote:Abstinence should be taught whether kids listen or not because it is the only 100% effective birth control method. I'm not saying other forms shouldn't be taught, but why wouldn't you teach something that is guaranteed to work?

I don't think it's as easy as people think to "teach abstinence." You can tell people to be abstinent, but teaching them that it's the best method and the one that they should pick for themselves needs to be done from a young age--more like a value that's instilled in someone than a method of birth control taught to someone.

professor wrote:
jbalexdarkelf wrote:If kids want to have sex it will happen. Hormones is what controls that.
This is a lie. Hormones don't control people. If kids were taught to have a little bit of self control, then maybe we wouldn't need to be teaching 5th graders about birth control.

In the case of 5th graders I don't think it's a matter of raging hormones, it's probably more social and possibly cultural than physical. Again, abstinence as a value needs to be taught from a young age. Starting to teach it in middle school or high school won't work. Starting to teach it when the kid might have already had sex in 5th grade doesn't work.

Edit: Sorry, I replied without looking at what section this is in.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 19 Apr 2007 18:41

Abstinence-only is fucking stupid. Its like telling a kid not to drive because he might get hurt. Theres a good chance they'll try it anyways and a chance they'll get hurt doing it. Fucking teach the kids, so they can 'avoid' getting hurt, while providing abstinence as the safer path.

It might be stupid to teach, but it sure isn't a bad path to take. And no, it isn't at all like telling a kid not to drive. When a car accident happens another car isn't entered into the world, and eventually get send to the junk yard because the two kids don't have the cajones to raise a kid.

And really, I don't think some of you realize how prevelent STD's are. I use to be really into black chicks, before I found out that 55% of them have vaginal herpes. I don't know about the mouth kind, but chances are you could be kissing a girl and get the Herp's. That shit isn't like acne. It doesn't clear up after your hormones settle down.

Sex ed for me was funny. We got it at 5th, 8th, and 9th grade. In my 8th grade year they had four speakers come in, only one of whom preached abstinence and basically all the kids including myself disregarded him, even though he was very sincere and not prostelysizing at all. Then later in the year they divided us into groups of like 20, seperated by gender, and the guys basically learned that we better keep our dick in our pants and not get any sweet little helpless girls pregnant, while the girls learned the notorious "Grab, twist, and pull method"; incase us guys didn't get the picture and decided to go hit on a girl.

I know, personally, that, by definition, I have been sexually assaulted twice. The second and most vulgar time, I was beyond any legal point of consent and basically led into my homeboys room and was raped. I actually kind of like the bottom usually, 'cause it's less work and all, but all that aside, I woke up feeling pretty weird the next morning and a little sore. Obviously it isn't something that effects me and I'm able to laugh about it today, but I could've gotten both of these girls charged, even though they probably would've gotten off. Speaking of getting off, I didn't, because I was drunk and when I'm drunk you can work my shit for hours and most likely I'll fall asleep before I bust a nut. I went and got screened and tested that day, and thank God came out clean, 'cause if I didn't I woulda said fuck charges and gone postal on the two girls and everyone they've ever loved. I dunno, that's just me.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 20 Apr 2007 15:39

[Moved to Discussion section]

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 20 Apr 2007 16:25

Abstinence only as a sex education policy doesn't work at all.

Americans have the same rate of sex as as the rest of the world, but significantly higher rates of STDs than the rest of the developed world.

"There is nothing wrong with encouraging teens to abstain from having sex. But we know, beyond any doubt, that teaching abstinence alone is not a good way to curb teen pregnancy or the spread of sexually transmitted disease. In fact, kids who are taught abstinence alone are less likely to use contraceptives when they do have sex, as many of them inevitably will. One study found that teen "virginity pledges" postpone intercourse for eighteen months on averageâ€”while, in the meantime, these virgin teens were more likely than their peers to engage in oral and anal sex. American teenagers engage in about as much sex as teenagers in the rest of the developed world, but American girls are four to five times more likely to become pregnant, to have a baby, or to get an abortion. Young Americans are also far more likely to be infected by HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. The rate of gonorrhea among American teens is seventy times higher than it is among their peers in the Netherlands and France. The fact that 30 percent of our sex-education programs teach abstinence only (at a cost of more than $200 million a year) surely has something to do with this. "

Letter To A Christian Nation Sam Harris

Teaching sexual abstinence is a great example of the way peoples dogmatic ideological beliefs end up being much more harmful than positive. The people who advocate these teachings are responsible for the pain, suffering and death that their policy leads to.

And incidentally, for those who are curious about the effectiveness of condoms, this NIAID report found that they are 100% effective against preventing aids when they're used correctly. How do you know how to use a condom correctly? We got taught in school...

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/research/topi ... report.pdf

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 21 Apr 2007 07:59

People who teach abstinence need to get laid more often.

professor · Post by **professor** » 22 Apr 2007 21:23

Jeremy wrote:Teaching sexual abstinence is a great example of the way peoples dogmatic ideological beliefs end up being much more harmful than positive. The people who advocate these teachings are responsible for the pain, suffering and death that their policy leads to.

How is teaching abstinence harmful? Did you mean abstinence-only?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 23 Apr 2007 03:55

You clearly know what I meant. There is no prize for being pointlessly pedantic.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 23 Apr 2007 14:20

Jeremy wrote:There is no prize for being pointlessly pedantic.

This is my new favorite sentence. Be warned, you will receive no credit.

I have to say that I'm confused by the notion of teaching abstinence. What, exactly, is there to teach? Seems to me that anyone familiar with the mechanics of pregnancy is consequently fully aware of the benefits of abstinence.

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 23 Apr 2007 14:24

its not really "teaching" abstenence... its more "promotion" than anything.

professor · Post by **professor** » 23 Apr 2007 14:59

Jeremy wrote:You clearly know what I meant. There is no prize for being pointlessly pedantic.

I didn't know. If I did, I wouldn't have asked.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 23 Apr 2007 16:06

BainbridgeShred wrote:I know, personally, that, by definition, I have been sexually assaulted twice. The second and most vulgar time, I was beyond any legal point of consent and basically led into my homeboys room and was raped. I actually kind of like the bottom usually, 'cause it's less work and all, but all that aside, I woke up feeling pretty weird the next morning and a little sore.

Was I the only person who thought this was going somewhere else?

flockpocken · Post by **flockpocken** » 23 Apr 2007 16:37

being a teen myself i have no desire to even date in highschool. no im not the little nerd in the corner, im also not the jock that everyone loves

. i could get a date if i wanted is wat im getting at. but i know i would probably distract me from school work and getting to my longterm goal... college. i was taught self control when i was little and i actually have morals and values (unlike most kids at my school).

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 23 Apr 2007 16:41

I think we all know where abstinence leads

flockpocken · Post by **flockpocken** » 23 Apr 2007 17:17

lol! no that guy was just plain crazy... people in his dorm would try and talk to him and he would completely ignore them

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 23 Apr 2007 18:29

professor wrote:
Jeremy wrote:You clearly know what I meant. There is no prize for being pointlessly pedantic.
I didn't know. If I did, I wouldn't have asked.

So you honestly think that I believe that suggesting abstinence as a form of birth control to children is harmful, despite the fact that this topic is clearly about the effects of teaching abstinence only in schools as the only sexual education? Or you honestly aren't sure if I was talking about the topic being discussed or not, despite the fact that I started my post saying; "Abstinence only as a sex education policy doesn't work at all. "

The way I see it, there are two possibilities, either you're attempting a pedantic point score, or I won't spell out the other possibility, I'm sure you can figure it out.

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 23 Apr 2007 19:38

I have to say that I'm confused by the notion of teaching abstinence. What, exactly, is there to teach? Seems to me that anyone familiar with the mechanics of pregnancy is consequently fully aware of the benefits of abstinence.

the problem is that these poor bastards are so sheltered that they don't know how sex is linked to pregnancy. Seriously. Its come to that!

i could get a date if i wanted is wat im getting at. but i know i would probably distract me from school work and getting to my longterm goal... college.

the lonely guy always figures he COULD get a date, just doesn't want to, and the gambler always thinks he's breaking even, or just a little ahead.

I know what you mean though, I had sex once in highschool and I totally didn't get into college.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 23 Apr 2007 20:45

why you gonna hate if he wants to focus on more important things? and how is abstaining from sex comparable to a gambling addiction?

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 24 Apr 2007 07:27

Tsiangkun wrote:I think we all know where abstinence leads

Oh wow, that's hilarious. Ha ha, I lol'd.

Anyway. When I went through sex ed... they just kinda told us a few risks, STDs (Only AIDs and HIV), and pregnancy. That's it. No videos, no, advice, no, nothing. Just, the risks, and then told, don't do it. But that just doesn't fly around here, or anywhere for that matter. Thankfully, I have parents that are practical, and give a shit, who told me what I need to know. Actually, they probably told me more than I need and/or want to know, but they got the important information through to me and that's the was the point, lol. This was when I was 12ish.

But very few kids (especially the girls), get the information from their parents. One of my best friends thinks the safest time to have sex is immediately after the girl's period... and I'm just like... No, it's not... idiot.

This abstinence only sex ed really needs to change. Kids will have sex, you're not gonna stop it, and it's irresponsible for our education system to sit there and deny it, it's ignorant. And you can't trust the parents to do it, because there's alot of irresponsible parents.

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 24 Apr 2007 09:29

why you gonna hate if he wants to focus on more important things? and how is abstaining from sex comparable to a gambling addiction?

Just flaming cause I was in a bad mood. I'm sure you know how it goes.