Tip to get better: practice foundation prior to advanced ?!

[habitat]

Isn't it always the case? I always see these threads in the trick tips section asking how to do advanced (combining multiple components) moves such as vortex, ps mirage, symp. eggbeater, etc. Isn't the best tip ALWAYS practice the foundation then move onto combining the elements?

Vortex>gyro mirage>gyro clip>clip=mirage
ps mirage>symp. mirage=pdx mirage>clip=mirage
symp. eggbeater>eggbeater=flail>illusion=legover

> - greater than
= - same importance
(This doesn't really mean anything, just showing how each move would break down IMO)


So really instead of asking how to hit a move like flurry on the modified forum trick tips section and waiting around for a reply, why not try to break the move down yourself?

(Barrage, symple legover, it's a quick barrage>symple legover, I have to drill barrage, drill dlo, drill symple legover.)

Start from the ground up and don't cut corners and you should have no problem figuring out the "trick tip" yourself. If I'm coming off like a rant, I don't mean to. I just think it would be more effective for everyone who has trouble with certain moves to break them down themselves in this manner. Combined with Jorden's school of thought, there isn't a move in the world you can't hit

Unless it's something like a monster, I have no clue how that even works. Any tips?

[brinard]

id say work on the foundation, and monster will come with time.

[King Monkey]

i laugh when i see ppl who can barely hit 10 consec clippers asking how to hit Whirr or some crazy shit like that
Your thoughts are very accurate i think, learning the core stuff naturally leads to the hard stuff.
I dont normally ask anyone for tips on moves, because generally its obvious what you have to do or what you have to learn, in order to do it.

[dazza]

True . why cant i hit blrry/ducking/spinning whirl on my flipside ?
Because my flip mirage is weak, my flip pdx mirage is weaker
wich means my general flip hip pivot sucks, thus no pdx whirl
and so on .

Still, breaking down a move to its components wont solve all problems.
For me advices given by other, preferably better players than myself-
i'm kinda lucked out in that respect - are very important to improve .
Sometimes you just need a "get that bag closer to your body" or a
"start the dex a little earlier"to make your freestyle life a lot easier .

[C-Fan]

Breaking down moves into their components doesn't always work. I can hit butterfly, symp reverse swirl, and butterfly reverse swirl, but when I hit WHAT?! (butterfly symp rev swirling opp toe), I don't think of it in terms of any of the aforementioned tricks; I think of it like PS egg. Same with janiwalker: I don't think of it like a barrage or a ripwalk, I think of it like a pseudo symp whirling nuclear set, and somehow the dexes happen like a janiwalker. So yeah, in many cases it isn't that helpful to practice a move by breaking it down into what seem like its logical components, because they don't always necessarily help you hit the final product.

[Iron Clad Ben]

I agree, for the most part this is definitely true. Unfortunately it seems like people often need that kick in the ass to be told to drill the basic components. I think for some people it can be an ego thing like "hey look at me I'm so close to hitting this really kewl trick" and they know what they should be doing (I think we've all been guilty of it at some point, myself included). In that case, yeah, I think a response like "STFU AND DRILL N00B!!!!11" is OK. Sometimes people need that as sort of a wakeup call.

Other times I think people genuinely need help. I had mirage and clipper solid for almost a year before I could hit a drifter. I had to scour through posts, ask ppl for tips, watch videos and try all sorts of ways of doing the move before I could finally hit it. That was frustrating.

Also, I think in some cases people are doing the trick, or one of its components FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG and they won't realize this until they explain their approach. For instance doing a dex leggy that should be done hippy etc. Perhaps they can even hit the basic components the "wrong" way but it makes the step-up move extremely difficult or essentially impossible. This is the case where we definitely want to intervene and help this person out. Otherwise if they continue to do the move the "wrong" or inefficient in some way, they will form a bad habit that will be tougher to break the longer they keep doing it.

[Sporatical_Distractions]

Our brains our limited to think in certain ways based on our experiences.

Other peoples advice can help us think in new and interesting ways.

but basics should definitely be dialed before trying insane tricks i.e. furious blender, etc.

[jay7]

I'm completely guilty of this one.

I mean, I was asking for tips on Ripped Warrior, and I couldn't hit ducking butterfly consistently...

It feels really good to drill components, and then try the same difficult move and hit it.

I find it funny, because I never learn my lesson. My footbag routine goes something like this
"Try and do 5 add"->"See why I didn't hit five add"->Practise for a month on components->"hit 5 add"->rpt.

Meh, I have fun doing it this way.

[habitat]

Ken, I understand what you are saying about WHAT!?!, but what's to stop me from learning the move from the core elements? I'm sure your way of thinking helps you a lot, but to say it isn't helpful to learn the core moves first is kind of Basically, not everyone thinks of jani as a symp whirl>quantum (not nuke haha) as well as the way you think of WHAT?!?!, that's all.


But what do I know right? I suck.

[PegLegHolly]

i personally like progressing at my own pace and ignore the pressures of hitting bigger. when i feel comfortable with what im doing, then i try something new.

then again... there are people who progress very quickly and its obvious that somethings working for them.

[BenRea]

Deffinatley true, i had to learn this the hard way. I always thought bigger moves were better but i missed out on basics like flipside things, also legovers and better mirages, but they soon began to hurt my game so i had to go back and learn them, my flipside is finally caught up to my strong side (just about) but it took me a couple months of wasted time (ouch)

skool the basics ladies and gentleman, it sucks, i know, just do it.

[professor]

If you don't drill the easy stuff before trying the hard stuff, you're just wasting your time. This is said from experience.

[DanJohnHarris]

Any time you touch the bag with your feet, you're improving. If you try harder tricks with multiple components that you can't do consistently, you won't hit the move as easily, but you'll gain skill from trying. You'll end up hurting yourself if you play too hard too fast, but if you go back and drill the easy stuff, you will still have the toolbox of insanity built up from going big. The two together are always better than nothing, whichever comes first.

And as for 'how to hit moves', just do it. If the footbag hits a spot on your leg that ruins the trick, think of what you can do to get that leg out of the way, or set the bag differently.

[shreddaily]

practicing pdx torques before I had torques down solid made my torques much better... but don't listen to me I suck now.

[Jorden]

You're not ready for a trick unless you can do all the variations of the trick minus one component and all the components separately.

JM

[Colin]

To serve as a counterexample to all good sense in this thread, today I will hit hit rooted phasing spinning ps flux.

Also, Nate is right. Practicing certain motions will benefit your overall game whether you're able to put them to practical use or not.

[jon]

I voted no. Footbag is as much as it is about fun as much as it is about advancement. Why not practice foundation while also trying the harder out of reach stuff. As long as one doesnt get injured or spend the majority of their time doing tricks way out of their skill level I don't see why anyone would have to stick to such an static piece of advice.

That said I believe foundation work is vitally important. I just don't see it as a black and white issue enough to say don't even try this until you can do this.

[Slowsis]

Practicing components have often allowed me to hit tricks I'd never practiced!

Examples:
Flail.....I had been hitting tons of symp mirages, ps mirages, smudges and Pdx Illusions, and one day realized that I could hit Flail and pdx flail. My first flip Pdx flail was on a BSOS, and I hit Pixie ss Flail first try ever.

Flip sailing....I have recently been skooling my flip pixie and atomic heavily, and in one session hit more three or four new tricks out of flip sailling, after having not tried it in a month.

Frontside Atomic.....as I said above, I've been doing tons of symp mirage tricks, as well as a large amount of atomic skooling. While solo sessioning in my basement, I discovered I could hit frontside atomic tricks, and in the same session hit Frontside Atomshasher Bs(having never tried it before) Frontside legbeater BS and Stampede on my good-side.

Moral of the story.....skool lots of different elements, and new tricks just happen.

[habitat]

I question whether anyone understands the point of this thread, or even read my inital post. This isn't a black and white issue and footbag is about freedom of expression. I didn't say you should only try tricks starting from their foundations

I am only referring to the people who post threads in the tip and tricks section about advanced moves who probably don't even try the foundations of their respective move first. Instead, they just want to jump right into the advanced combinations of concepts. Which is cool, but if you can't do a paradox torque, ISN'T THE ONLY ANSWER DRILL YOUR FOUNDATIONS!!! (regular torques, p mirages)

[shredzilla]

Practicing components have often allowed me to hit tricks I'd never practiced!

Moral of the story.....skool lots of different elements, and new tricks just happen.

Yeah this happens to me all the time. A difficult trick from the past that I never school, and then one day I try it again and hit it easily first try. It's kinda wild.