Footbag Progression

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 10 Jul 2007 08:20

Hey, modified. I have been kicking for 10+ months and I'm doing 2dd moves and a couple 3adds. I've seen a couple videos lately of people with 6 or so months that are trying ripwalks, eggbeaters, etc. (I'm not trying to point out any specific people.) Most of the tricks I can do, I can do them bs or bsos.

I guess what I'm wondering is, am I where I'm supposed to be? I came into the sport hearing people say "learn foundations first, you don't want to have to go back and relearn 2 and 3 adds," and that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Is hitting big add tricks worth "the" dexes? Does having lots of people to freestyle with help your game?

Also, I wanted to know if most people found out about footbag because they played hacky sack? I didn't hack before I found footbag, and I'm wondering if thats a disadvantage.

Or does everyone learn at their own pace, and where everyones at is where their supposed to be?

Please feel free to state your opinion and experience. But this isn't about for flamming or drama, it's about footbag. I would have posted this in my blog but I'm hoping to get a response from more footbaggers.

Thanks ahead of time.

Zeke · Post by **Zeke** » 10 Jul 2007 08:41

Everybody progresses differently. Some people can just learn concepts faster than others. Some people have more time to practice than others. Try not to compare yourself to other players, it may take all the fun out of it. Instead, see if you are better today than your previous session.

Play cuz you want to play
play cuz you need to play
play cuz you love to play

just...

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 10 Jul 2007 08:45

yeah. everyone progresses differently. and to be honest it depends who you have around you thats better than you to help teach you shit that would take you longer to figure out on your own.

the rate at which some of the newer people are progressing at IS fucking insane. im looking at you toolan.

Sporatical_Distractions · Post by **Sporatical_Distractions** » 10 Jul 2007 08:46

I feel that as long as you are having fun, than you are where you are supposed to be.

When I first started playing, I didn't learn the foundations. I was one-sided and could hit pixie ducking mirage before I could hit flip atw. Had to go back and learn the basics while trying to catch up my flipside. Luckily this game is fun enough where I had no problem starting all over again. I definitely wish I would have started with the basics though and feel I would be a much better player overall than I am right now.

Learning the foundations will help you steer clear of injuries by building muscles in specific areas, learn proper form, and is a good philosophy on anything you pursue in life.

It's still fun to try new things that are beyond your reach every once in awhile though.

Take your time and have fun. Footbag is a game.

Zeke · Post by **Zeke** » 10 Jul 2007 08:52

Sporatical_Distractions wrote:I feel that as long as you are having fun, than you are where you are supposed to be.

Perfect.

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 10 Jul 2007 08:58

The whole progression thing is a strange subject to me. It's hard not to get down on yourself when you see other people get better faster than you, and you think you aren't hitting the tricks you should be able to. But really, all you can do, if you want to be a really good player, is practice what you think will help you the most and always look for better ways to drill things and to improve faster.

I guess there is a certain point where you may realize that you will never be one of the best,, just like some people will never be in the NBA, no matter how much they practice basketball, but I don't think footbag has reached that point. It seems to me the everyone who is really good plays a lot, every day. (None of this was directed at you specifically holly, even though I did say "you a lot.)

Drilling basics is the right thing to do though. the general progression from that point would be to move up in difficulty slowly, until you get to the point where you are hitting 3's and 4's consistently instead of just 2's.

If you practice big tricks instead you will never be able to hit as long of runs as the guy/girl who drills basics like a maniac.

I think I was/am a slow learner in footbag, but entirely due to my lack of work ethic, not a lack of innate talent. throughout the four years I've played, I've always been jealous of other people (henry greise, joe kulacz, tom mosher, norek) who started playing after me and passed me in skill. but its a stupid thing for me to think, because i am sure they all played more than me to get where they are.

notsohairlessape · Post by **notsohairlessape** » 10 Jul 2007 08:59

I'm hoping everyone just learns at their own pace. I've been playing for a little over a year now and I can hit a few four adds but not many (pretty much anything I can hit at all I can do both sides). I definitely feel slow when I see those videos of people who've be playing for 6 months hitting stuff that I'm not even close to hitting. I figure I may not have quite the natural ability of some of these people and I'm sure I don't have the time to play as much as they do. But I am getting better so I just have fun shredding and don't worry much about keeping up.

I've also noticed that the things that some people learn early on are very hard for me. Ducking, diving, spinning, and symposium, for example, are things that I just haven't been able to do at all (I figure that being 6'4" is part of the problem here) . On the other hand, I've had a pretty decent pixie set for a long time (maybe having really long legs helps here). I hit dimwalk bs a while before I ever hit osis. I try to make sure to work on the things that don't come naturally but I do have fun hitting higher add tricks that seem easier.

Sporatical_Distractions · Post by **Sporatical_Distractions** » 10 Jul 2007 09:49

Been thinking about making a video containing lots of basic drills. Do you think this would help w/ others progression?

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 10 Jul 2007 10:21

I agree a lot with what other people said.
I think the biggest thing, probably, is playing as much as physically possible, especially when you are still working on basics -- it is harder to injure yourself on these basic moves and so pushing yourself isn't as detrimental. Of course, always listen to your body, and if you feel pain or discomfort, don't just play through it. It doesn't seem likely for this to bother you, though, if you are a "beginner" with a healthy body, leading an active lifestyle.

I personally feel like I could be an AMAZING player if I could push myself, but my body has really finite limits nowadays and I simply can't school like I could years ago. Push yourself, and keep your body healthy, and play ALL THE TIME, and break any mental barriers ("I'm good for a girl", "nemesis is the hardest trick", "everyone else averages 9 hours a week, so that's sufficient for me too"...)... and you will reach your potential.

I don't think that time -- measured by how long you have been playing -- is accurate in determining level of play, at all. It's foremost important to have fun. But if you want to get good then you have to set high standards for yourself.

PLAY ALL THE TIME.
ALL.
THE.
TIME.

Umm, to actually address your post, Holly, you are probably doing a lot better than I was when I had been playing for 10 months. Mind you, that was close to 10 years ago when things like bothsidedness weren't really considered. I feel that the average player, today, who has played for about 10 months is at least strong tiltless, doing runs of 10-15 contacts. Doing moves that are too big for you feels silly to me, unless it is just in fun... if you get what I mean. It is much more beneficial to take a longer time to learn EVERYTHING bothsided from the beginning (if you could see old footage of Lon Smith you might understand?). It is also invaluable to have someone WAY better than you to learn from. Learn to increase your string length. If you have trouble linking more than a handful of 2s together then maybe you should consider taking a "step back" (maybe a bad way to phrase this) and including a lot of toe stalls into your runs to help you get more moves in there; that would be good training for longer runs.

That was just a whole bunch of messy thoughts. I hope it helps though.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 10 Jul 2007 10:23

I think that others have made the point well, but I still feel it's worth reinforcing, everyone progresses at different rates and in different ways.

There are several factors that will determine the rate and most of them are entirely up to the individual player to make the best of. Obviously unforseen injuries and all that can slow a player down, but I am mostly speaking aside from that. (Though a player can control if they choose to play with good form which is more conducive to playing without injury)

If you are investing as much time as you can and really making the best of your time playing by disecting what you are doing and analyzing it for potential ways to improve then you are doing really all you can. At that point it becomes a matter of commitment and determination, the people that get good are the ones that are willing to try over and over and over and not give up because they get frustrated or distracted. And not just that, but you just have to keep on chugging away, make the best of every session and just keep coming back for more.

If that is how you approach the situation then you can't help but make progress. This can all be done, and perhaps even better, with the support from a fun footbag club.

Keep at it!

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 10 Jul 2007 10:31

mosher wrote:the people that get good are the ones that are willing to try over and over and over and not give up because they get frustrated or distracted. And not just that, but you just have to keep on chugging away, make the best of every session and just keep coming back for more.

When I started playing it took me, like, 2 months to learn clipper. But every single day I would go out to my back yard and train and train and train (and by train I mean drop). This is really what it takes to get good. Well said, Tom.

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 10 Jul 2007 10:51

I agree with the PLAY! PLAY! PLAY! attitude. I 99% stopped playing by myself about 1.5 years ago due to a 2 month depression stage I went through. (girlfriend) The nearest footbag player here is 3 hours way, so basically I play 2-4 times a month when I haul ass to Montucky. It really fucked me over because I've STILL haven't been able to get back into the groove of playing a lot after that. I'm still hitting the same runs I could hit back when I was in high school.

So, if you want to progress, play a lot and don't stop.

Even if your drill habits aren't the greatest, as long as you play tons you WILL get better.

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 10 Jul 2007 11:25

Thanks, y'all (that's you-all if you don't know).

I feel in my heart that I'm going at the right pace. I was raised with my dad saying, "do it right the first time."

No, I don't really have people to kick with. Brian and Lee are soooo much better than me, it's hard to keep up at sessions. Our friend, Josh, came home for the holidays and he's at my level. With him around, it was easier to disect and talk about things.

tom wrote:making the best of your time playing by disecting what you are doing and analyzing it for potential ways to improve

I don't think I know how to do that yet. I can pick out if I set too high or dex badly or whatever. Dat and I were IMing last night about drifter style clippers and stomping instead of slapping my foot on the ground. That was the first time I've even thought about that... and without Dat, I doubt I would understand it.

I guess I just need to really take to heart what people tell me to do at tourneys... since I don't know how to analyse things yet.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 10 Jul 2007 11:28

Perhaps you should ask for help from Lee and Brian?

I find it upsetting when the local aces don't help out the newbs. Not to call you a newb, just describing a situation I see alot. you know what I mean.

Anyways, I think that the players that are further along owe it to the newer players to help them out and give tips where they feel they can.

I will help you at world's, but until then ask brian and lee for help!

Bringerofpie · Post by **Bringerofpie** » 10 Jul 2007 12:48

Sporatical_Distractions wrote:Been thinking about making a video containing lots of basic drills. Do you think this would help w/ others progression?

Definitely!

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 10 Jul 2007 12:57

mosher wrote:ask brian and lee for help!

Definitely. That is one of Jorden's 23 tips to becoming a better player; don't watch someone a BIT better than yourself -- ask someone WAY better than yourself. From the sounds of it (pixie mobius and STUFF!) they are the perfect people to help you out.

gMoney · Post by **gMoney** » 10 Jul 2007 13:07

(I figure that being 6'4" is part of the problem here)

haha, word

Let's see... I started playing footbag last year, around this time. I was semi-serious, but was very lazy and was developing a lot of bad habits, so I pretty much stopped playing for around 6 months. Then I started again with a better attitude (mostly to all the hard work I put into Track and Field and all the gain I got back) and I've been practicing a lot harder. But I've noticed that people are getting waaayyyy better and developing at a way faster rate than I ever have. It's crazy. I get so pissed off when I'm drilling because it's like I've been practicing a shitload now, I could do this 6 months ago, why can't I do this better? Then I see these people who have played for the same amount of time that I've been taking my 'footbag break' and they're hitting solid 4 ADD tricks and working on concepts far ahead of me. And my string length is still pretty bad. I think if you want to get better, you have to not only put more effort into it, but you have to know what you're doing, and (I can't think of a better way to say this) how to practice right. My $.03.

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 10 Jul 2007 14:44

I think that is just the matter how much you practise.

I started off alone without knowing that there are a few baggers in my city.

I played every single day and still do(sometimes i miss a day tho).Last summer i used to play 2 times a day for almost a month.

The harder you train and push yourself the faster you get better.And definatly playing with someone who is at a good level helps.I wasnt good when Ramil started training but i did help him and he got through basics alot faster than me.

Btw i played hacky for like 2 weeks before i found out freestyle.Never been a soccer player.On my first ever solo session my best result was 3 consecutive kicks.

Drilling basics and working on your form is important.But i think that one should try new concepts every session and drill them.Also the more variety of the tricks you learn the more different muscles of your legs develop thus making a faster overall progression.(well thats just my thought i my be wrong).

jay7 · Post by **jay7** » 10 Jul 2007 14:51

If you may recall that thread I made forever ago, "list of players playing inbetween 6 and 18 months", that was partially just a good way for all of us to check up on everyone else. With that list, the newer players like us can just see where the other people are at, and then judge yourself accordingly.

I think everyone worries about other players progression, I have read things Jorden or Dave have written about the matter. Even when you are THAT good, there are some things other people can just do better. So, if you are worried about your game at this point, the only advice I could give is judge yourself by yourself.

Instead of looking at someone else and comparing, it might be good practise to judge yourself, ask "What could I have done this session to become a better player, instead of just doing the same tricks over and over again?", and if every day you don't feel you have accomplished something, think of yourself if you HAD of done that well, and try and catch up with your 'better' self. I like this method as well, because you don't feel so frustrated with your ability. This way, you know that the image you had in mind IS do-able, and with that you often push yourself that little bit more to suceed. Instead of looking at say, Brian, hitting some crazy thing and trying to learn it.

HG · Post by HG » 10 Jul 2007 18:04

I realize this is the last post on this page, and no one will read it except for the next person to post, but anyways.

You CANNOT compare yourself to others. Everyone does totally different things. Nathan said I am better than him, but its totally not true. Honestly, our games are pretty similar, but we've never played with each other, and its impossible to gauge someone's skill from videos alone. If someone is better than you at a certain part of footbag, maybe you are better at something else. It's like comparing Yao Ming to Steve Nash, one is a huge post player, the other is a small ball distributer/clutch scorer.