Let's say I break into your house

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 05 Jul 2007 20:19

Lets say your family owned some land.
For generations they had lived on the land.
One day some white man arrives,
and builds a house on your land. . .

***time passes***

and they lived happily ever after.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 05 Jul 2007 22:28

I nearly choked on my Mountain Dew when I read that.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 05 Jul 2007 23:35

ObArA'BaRs · Post by **ObArA'BaRs** » 06 Jul 2007 09:22

Blue_turnip wrote:
crazylegs32 wrote:Chris Obara knows his shit because his parents are immigrants and they did it the right way.
So?

My parents did it the right way because they're Polish, not mexican.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 07 Jul 2007 21:40

ObArA'BaRs · Post by **ObArA'BaRs** » 09 Jul 2007 17:38

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 14 Jul 2007 03:37

Yeah, the first post in this thread made me dumber for having read it. It makes me happy to see that members of modified, regardless of political orientation, were generally smart enough to see what an incredibly flawed analogy that was.

I'm not going to go into too much detail, because this is modified and its a waste of time, but a few things really bother me about immigration debates in the US.

1. As Cam pointed out, anybody who isn't Native American is an immigrant. Did the native Americans want white people to come here, kill everybody and take over their land? No. If you are white, American, and anti-immigration, then you have no moral standing couching your opinion in moral absolutes, just based on history.

2. If your grandparents were denied entry into the US (because they lacked the money to enter legally, or were refugees from a war, or political asylees, etc), how many of the American posters on modified would be American? What percentage of people do you know would still be here? Now lets talk about people's great grandparents. How many people left now? I think a lot of people conveniently forget that they are the products of immigration.

3. People don't realize that the US itself is responsible for a lot of the conditions that force people to have to leave their own countries. In the 1970s and 1980s the US funded and supported (in some cases installed) lots of corrupt governments in Central America just because they claimed to be anti-communist. These repressive governments killed and persecuted lots of innocent people in their own government. Guess where these refugees went? And now you shit on them because we ruined their country?

4. Immigration isn't always about economics. In many cases, people don't like to leave their family and culture to go to another country where they don't speak the language, don't know anybody, and will have to get a crappy job doing menial labor. In many cases they are forced to leave due to war, political or religious persecution, or other non-economic factors. A lot of times, these people lack the time and money to leave their country and enter ours in a legal manner. Not everybody has the luxury to buy a visa and set up a job in the US before the leave; some people don't get a chance to pack a suitcase because somebody killed their family and burned their house down because they're from the "wrong" political party/religion/ethnicity and they're just lucky to make it out of their country alive.

Alright, I've wasted enough time.

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 15 Jul 2007 20:26

"If you are white, American, and anti-immigration, then you have no moral standing couching your opinion in moral absolutes, just based on history."
Im surprised to heaqr you are racist Ken. Dont assume that all white people invaded america. My great grandparent immigrated here after the country had been established, just like 90 percent of white people.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 16 Jul 2007 03:16

Ken's point is clearly that your great grandparents immigrated here, regardless of when the country was established, and it applies outside of racial barriers, but to anybody who is an immigrant or descendent of immigrants.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just that you completely misunderstood the point.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 16 Jul 2007 09:06

Lots of people didn't get in, and logical exercizes about how future,American modified members existences might be affected is not important.

The ancestral argument ignores the fact that immigration to America has, historically been low, and controlled.

Now it is wildly, out-of-control.

The situation is historically unprecedented in it's magnitude.....
that is, the enormous "transfer" of humanity.

Subjugation, and/or dis-solution as a nation, is nearly always the result of an influx of this size.

The hostile, demanding, "entitled" , immigrants of today, are not like the immigrants of past generations.

A rational person would oppose being the receiver, of such an influx.

Also posters should take a look at the current, xenophobic , abusive, perhaps racist(and strictly enforced) immigration policies of the nations that they, or their ancestors came from.

-n

ObArA'BaRs · Post by **ObArA'BaRs** » 16 Jul 2007 09:28

I dont care if mexicans immigrate here I just care if they do it legally or not.

Illegal immigration might start destroying worker unions or some shit like that.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 16 Jul 2007 23:03

4. Immigration isn't always about economics. In many cases, people don't like to leave their family and culture to go to another country where they don't speak the language, don't know anybody, and will have to get a crappy job doing menial labor. In many cases they are forced to leave due to war, political or religious persecution, or other non-economic factors. A lot of times, these people lack the time and money to leave their country and enter ours in a legal manner. Not everybody has the luxury to buy a visa and set up a job in the US before the leave; some people don't get a chance to pack a suitcase because somebody killed their family and burned their house down because they're from the "wrong" political party/religion/ethnicity and they're just lucky to make it out of their country alive.

Not to disagree with this whole thing, because you're mainly just saying how people immigrate to places for other reasons than $, but it's the first sentence I disagree with. Immigration is always about $. That's why American's support not doing anything about the "immiragtion problem", because they're smart enough to see that at this point we depend on them, and would be fucked without their cheap labor. All the dumb Congressmen in a fuss about this need to readdress the entire issue, because it's pretty goddamned complex.

I dunno, I go back and forth on this issue a lot. Even Jeremy has to throw in a "I'm not saying I disagree with you". We got to do something about this. I don't know what it is though. In the long run, I hope it's something that just pans itself out like these type of things always seem to do.

jrstubs · Post by **jrstubs** » 18 Jul 2007 11:59

I heard that....

mizua_r · Post by **mizua_r** » 27 Jul 2007 09:37

Look, I'm not commenting on the analogy, because I could really care less. I think that lady had a lot of guts to write something so politically INCORRECT, and it's nice to hear someone say what they mean for a change of pace. Legal immigration is great, but I loved the article.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 27 Jul 2007 12:43

because they're smart enough to see that at this point we depend on them, and would be fucked without their cheap labor.

I dont like this myth about how America's economy exists ONLY as a result of illegal foreign slaves.

The labor is only cheap for the greedy employers and politicans.

They pass on an enormous cost to to the taxpayers, destroying school systems, bankrupting health care providers, and other victims.etc...

The myth also has veiled racism, against blacks and whites, which i'll detail later if anyone is interested.

sanuke okumatzu · Post by **sanuke okumatzu** » 28 Jul 2007 12:06

Anyone can shovel shit for a living... I don't give a hoot who does it, so long as they're in the country legally.

None of the analogies really made sense to me, I mean...If you're looking for some truth to them then you'll find them. Other-wise it's just a crock of shit trying to sound educated. I think to solve the problem of illegal immigration then we have to do something about it. We can talk about it all we want, rally all the people you can together to support changing something... But how often are any of these solutions actually put into action.

Politicians claim that illegal immigration is a bad thing, but they fail to let on just how bad the situation is. Keep the public stupid, kinda' like global warming......Hell, some-one's gotta' build the churches to keep the people occupied in blind ignorant worship.

Nathan, do detail further

ObArA'BaRs · Post by **ObArA'BaRs** » 28 Jul 2007 20:11

sanuke okumatzu wrote: I don't give a hoot who does it, so long as they're in the country legally.

Thats the same way I feel about immigration also.

Its like robin hood, kind of.
He steals from the rich and gives it to the poor, but does that make it right?

I know its a shitty comparison, but thats all I could think of.

sanuke okumatzu · Post by **sanuke okumatzu** » 29 Jul 2007 09:23

Very good comparison.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 29 Jul 2007 10:17

sanuke okumatzu wrote:Anyone can shovel shit for a living...

I sure as hell couldn't. Hell, half the people I know aren't even capable of working a fast food job well. Anything genuinely strenuous or unpleasant would be way beyond them.

sanuke okumatzu · Post by **sanuke okumatzu** » 29 Jul 2007 13:02

Colin wrote:
sanuke okumatzu wrote:Anyone can shovel shit for a living...
I sure as hell couldn't. Hell, half the people I know aren't even capable of working a fast food job well. Anything genuinely strenuous or unpleasant would be way beyond them.

Meh, I'll do anything for money. I don't care what it is. A job is a job, I'm not picky about earning money. You've just gotta' accept that you'll not get a sweet ass job that pays 20$ and hour to have you sit on your ass. Some-times you've gotta' get your prissy little hands dirty and do something unpleasant.