The JJHacSac appreciation thread (new video 11/15!)

Iron Clad Ben · Post by **Iron Clad Ben** » 20 Jul 2007 13:33

Found this video on YouTube. Does anyone know this guy or heard of him? He has this homemade kind of style that makes me think he figured most or all of this out on his own. Some of these trick defy categorization. He has occasional toe bails so it makes me think he isn't going for tiltless / guiltless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on3vNiaSwJY

Take a look. Thoughts?

EDIT: he's wearing skate shoes and jorts which is more reason to believe he's not aware the type of freestyle we all know, like he just figured all those moves on his own.

EDIT 2: New video of this guy up, he got some quantums!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NhYNz34wvM

Wumbo · Post by **Wumbo** » 20 Jul 2007 13:49

awesome! i dont know him but i love his whirling rakes! and the dlo looks SO easy.. i gotta try these moves!

Psilocybe · Post by **Psilocybe** » 20 Jul 2007 13:53

Thats really good, considering the hack/shoes hes using probably sucks. If he discovered all that on his own I would be quadruply impressed.

I need to try a whirling rake now, or whatever that is he keeps doing.

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 20 Jul 2007 13:59

dude's got style.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 20 Jul 2007 14:12

Wow that was really cool.

Paradox Whirl at the end.

david · Post by **david** » 20 Jul 2007 14:14

I'd rather watch this kid than vasek. I've seen this video before but its still fresh as shit.

The Rhino · Post by **The Rhino** » 20 Jul 2007 15:09

I think that Allen and Dylan know this guy. They should know his name.

justy1590 · Post by **justy1590** » 20 Jul 2007 15:31

i watched that earlier today actually and i love this guys style

janis · Post by **janis** » 20 Jul 2007 17:25

woah that was like ultra style

BenRea · Post by **BenRea** » 20 Jul 2007 20:23

someone...PLEASE tell him about footbag!

HG · Post by HG » 20 Jul 2007 20:28

i say leave him in the dark, and see where his style ends up.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 20 Jul 2007 22:12

HXCFOOTBAG wrote:I think that Allen and Dylan know this guy. They should know his name.

This was my first thought too. I'm pretty sure I've seen footage of this guy at a session with some BC shredders maybe a couple of years back.

A lot of that stuff was really awesome. Guiltless shmiltless.

Will Digges · Post by **Will Digges** » 21 Jul 2007 00:54

leaving him in the dark will only hurt him, knowledge is better, spread it.

Cool style very smooth, he can be good.

HG · Post by HG » 21 Jul 2007 06:18

Aren't you curious about what moves he will create if no one pushes him to conform to freestyle? He could come up with some sweet shit if we just leave him to do what he pleases. Don't force OUR freestyle on him.

Psilocybe · Post by **Psilocybe** » 21 Jul 2007 06:58

^ But I'd say its nearly impossible at this point to create any new moves, at his level. Everything has been thought up before. Nothing in his arsenal was anywhere close to being new.

I think if the only difference was he was in lavers, this would be a whole different story.

mtoolan · Post by **mtoolan** » 21 Jul 2007 07:26

idk man. whirling rake and dlo are pretty creative for a hacker. dragon? was there a pixie?

anyway i saw this like a week ago. its really sick and hes got style. and his kicks are solid.

Psilocybe · Post by **Psilocybe** » 21 Jul 2007 07:34

I'm not saying he isn't creative. If he actually thought those moves up on his own thats amazing. Also shows hes living in a bubble, though.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 21 Jul 2007 07:57

Why is everybody assuming this guy hasn't heard of footbag? I mean, one of the tags in the video says "footbag," and if the guy is savvy enough to upload videos to youtube and knows the word footbag, I would bet that he's been exposed to the sport.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 21 Jul 2007 10:10

Psilocybe wrote:^ But I'd say its nearly impossible at this point to create any new moves, at his level.

This is incorrect. Consider "Suderman's Tail" and "Mosher's Tail" -- those are both very cool and stylie moves, but, I think that in principle, they are not at all "beyond" anything "at his level." Those tricks are only about a year and a half old, I think. I can't remember for sure right now.

I also used to think that any new moves would certainly have to be bigger and more complex than anything already being done; moves built by adding to already big moves, like by taking a move that was already at the upper limit of difficulty (go back some years and use Scorpion's Tale as an example) and add something more to it, some already well-known move element, to further push the upper limits of difficulty (to continue the example, adding a Swirl to Scorpion's to get a new and bigger move). -- I remember thinking this before I had even seen a Duck or Dive. I was clearly wrong in my belief, as a Diving Clipper was clearly less difficult that a Scorpion's Tale Swirl. I'm not saying definitively that Scorpion's Tale Swirl was hit before Diving Clipper, I'm just saying that someone could invent an entirely new move element that has not been thought of before, making all kinds of basic, uncomplex new moves possible.

Take Symple as another example. I'm not exactly entirely blown away from its creativity and uniqueness, but it can add something stylie to freestyle, and its fairly new (relative to spinning double downs, ducks and dives, paradox symposium whirls, etc.) in the world of freestyle. Symple kind of sort of made all sorts of basic moves new again, and Symple Leg-Over and Symple Swirl are clearly not "beyond" anything "at his level."

Flying Toe Stalls are another example of something new that is not beyond a not-even-tiltless level. I'm not too into those yet either, but years ago I thought Eclipse was one of the coolest styliest moves, and that flying hop-over was kind of in a class all by itself. Now with flying toes, and the flying leg-overs and flying pixies that it makes possible, a whole new style of playing is possible. An individual flying toe move doesn't excite me, but I can imagine being fairly amazed by a decent string packed with several combos of flying stalling moves. Hmmm, that sounds cool.

I could go on like this all day, but I think I've made this point well enough already.

C-Fan wrote:Why is everybody assuming this guy hasn't heard of footbag?

I agree completely with Ken. I've met a few very good freestylers recently who may not know ALL about freestyle shred, but they know enough and they go on doing their own brand of freestyle in whatever shoes they prefer, playing all the time but mostly deliberately avoiding the "world" of freestyle shred. Its not really that big of a world, really, and there are lots of kickers outside of our little world. Most of them are not this good, but there are plenty of talented and cool kickers of varying styles out there. Some of 'em don't know about us, but some of 'em do and don't care.

David wrote:I'd rather watch this kid than vasek.

-- not totally sure if you're being serious, but I tend to agree, so I'll assume that you're not being sarcastic for the moment -- There are good reasons for this; I'm not even gonna try to hit on all of them, but here is one: novelty is important. These days, most freestylers you meet or see tend to all be deliberately trying to learn what other good players are doing. "I'm good at Pixies and Atomics, but there are some others who are rockin' the Fairies and Quantums -- I'm gonna skool those too." Styles of the best players seem to converge -- less individuality among the top players - less novelty.

Eight years ago, everywhere you went you'd see a few players working the usual stuff, trying to master their paradox mirages, spining clippers, and double around the worlds, whatever, and one guy who was doing strange and interesting stuff different from everybody else. That one guy was probably not the best in his group (he wasn't actively trying to become guiltless), but he fit right in anyway. Now, the few guys have become a dozen, and that one guy is still just by himself, so he's harder to spot. And maybe that pressure of the growing group, all playing a game thats becoming increasingly more different than the game he's playing, and coninually upping the ante on string length and difficulty (now they're all trying to master Bedwetter, Double Spins, and Triple Around the Worlds) may be making that guy feel less comfortable around them, so he goes looking for more casual hackers to play with.

Maybe. I don't know. But I don't see these guys around as much anymore. Those guys weren't always pushing their games as hard as everybody else, but at least it was going in some unique directions. Freestyle footbag is a poorer pursuit when everybody is pushing in mostly the same direction. As fast as all those moves are, the game become less interesting, becomes more boring, if everybody is always heading to the same destination.

Novelty is important, but we're pushing it away. Maybe not intentionally, but its happening anyway. Everybody is all wrapped up in us being a "legitimate and serious sport". Not everybody is obsessed with being taken seriously by... (I don't even know. Who is it that we need to take us so seriously anyway? The people with the money? Whatever. Whoever. I don't need anybody elses approval to do what I love. Screw their approval!), and perhaps guys like this are less comfortable with the serious freestyle shred scene.

It begs the question: why is footbag so great? Because it's such a serious sport? I disagree. I think that what makes it great is that IT IS a game, and able to be taken less seriously than a sport. Running Marathons is a serious sport, and its followed world-wide and has some big money in it, but I'd wager that participating in it is not nearly as FUN as playing my favorite GAME. Footbag as a GAME (as opposed to a sport) is one of the best things that footbag has going for it, in some people's opinions. Sports are serious affairs, and they can be cool, but GAMES ARE FUN.

ObArA'BaRs · Post by **ObArA'BaRs** » 21 Jul 2007 12:30

nice.