Sandbagging in Tournaments

Eric Chang · Post by **Eric Chang** » 23 Aug 2007 08:51

I love tournaments and the competition vibe in our freestyle community. That is that we compete against each other, but not in the sense where we hate the opposition.

So I'll lay it down to see how you guys think when an open player tries to compete in Intermediate?

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 23 Aug 2007 09:13

When has that ever happened in freestyle? As far as I can remember, there has never been a true sandbagger at Worlds.

Iron Clad Ben · Post by **Iron Clad Ben** » 23 Aug 2007 10:23

A few people got accused of sandbagging at worlds and I can kind of understand. But of the 3 in intermediate that "could have gone open" I think they were all borderline. They could have gone either way.

I don't think it's worth getting hot and bothered over intermediates. The purpose of intermediates is it's supposed to be a learning experience. I didn't come close to winning anything but I learned a ton. I am so ready to bring it to my next competition (which will probably end up being intermediates too) If the 3 alleged "sandbaggers" had competed in open instead of intermediate, they probably would have learned more from the experience. It was their choice.

IIRC one guy even put up a video a few months before worlds and asked the modified community whether he should go open or intermediate, and everyone was pretty much split on the idea. Most people told him to pick one, whichever he wanted to do.

IMHO it's just intermediates. Yeah it's important to us intermediate competitors, but come on, at the end of the day, it's still just intermediates.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 23 Aug 2007 15:06

I don't really care about it, it's just fun to screw with the sandbaggers.

LEGOMAN · Post by **LEGOMAN** » 23 Aug 2007 17:59

*following davids advice* no point in me posting in here

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 23 Aug 2007 18:11

steve goldberge owned me and kyle at worlds....but mostly kyle...

professor · Post by **professor** » 23 Aug 2007 18:15

It could've been worse, I could of gone intermediate since it was my first Worlds.

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 23 Aug 2007 18:24

if you just won a regional intermediate championship, wouldnt you want to try being the world intermediate championship... then move on to open after that?

i think that the extent of this "sandbagging 07" joke has gone a little too far. if you competed in intermediates against these so called "sandbaggers" then maybe that should be a sign to step up your game if you want better results next time. why cant people just say "you should compete in open" rather than talk down to them with a mean name?

kyle had planned to move into open after worlds... so calling him sandbagger didnt do anything productive. and why would you be mean to someone who is such a nice guy?

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 23 Aug 2007 19:28

If the 3 alleged "sandbaggers" had competed in open instead of intermediate, they probably would have learned more from the experience.

I actually completely disagree. You can't learn more from a footbag competition that Kyle did, making it through multiple rounds, including finals, each time having to rise to the occasion and produce results in order to continue on. If he had been an open competitor, he likely would have been ousted after the first round, which would not have learned him too much.

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 23 Aug 2007 20:24

i dont belive there were any floods while we were there...although i could be wrong...the beer seemed to be flowing rather fast....

Eric Chang · Post by **Eric Chang** » 23 Aug 2007 21:04

Something like BSOS Whirr does comee to mind when I saw the player. But if thats intermediate then I really need to step my game up

All in all I don't feel cheated since I didn't make it to the finals. I also understand that intermediate isn't all that important compared to opens, but maybe I should be asking. What defines an open player rather than alleged sandbaggers.

I thank everyone for their constructive comments too, helped to see things from another point of view.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 24 Aug 2007 08:16

I'm competing in intermediate routines next year.

Eric Chang · Post by **Eric Chang** » 24 Aug 2007 09:17

Sweet Ken

That gives me roughly a year to catch up! BRING IT!

mc · Post by mc » 24 Aug 2007 09:41

I didn't see anyone in intermediate at worlds that shouldn't have been there. Is there some sort of perception that intermediate routines should be a sloppy dropfest? if that's the case, I should go intermediate, but that's beside the point

kyle worked on his routine, and delivered. it wasn't a pro-level routine and he wouldn't have made it far within pro. now that he's absolutely proved himself as an intermediate, and as a good shredder (despite having a far-from-traditional freestyler's build) it's time for him to go open. I support his decision to compete intermediate, and applaud him for putting on such a good show.

steve should keep his editorials to himself when he's on the mic. I seriously think he gets off on saying inappropriate and / or rude things, just to prove that he can get away with it. but that's another story.

Xain · Post by **Xain** » 24 Aug 2007 12:29

At any given competition, the intensity of intermediate can vary from just started shredding, to fearless combos on a good day. I think that this sandbagging issue is only a big deal at a tournament with a good turn out, namely worlds.

People generally have a good idea of what category they fall into in their region, but at an international tournament, these defining lines are blurred.

I theorize that the problem stems to having two open divisions. Anyone can compete in open or intermediate. At large tournaments, such as worlds, I propose that there be two divisions; Expert and Open. Anyone could enter the open, as the name suggests. And then the x(could be any reasonable number) top seeded players would be invited to be in the expert division for worlds. Winning the open division at worlds would give the said individual a kick start at their seeding for the next year.

Does this sound like a good idea?

Post by **Zac Miley** » 24 Aug 2007 13:16

Xain wrote: Does this sound like a good idea?

I like it, or more people who are in open could back off and go into intermediate.

RawSko · Post by **RawSko** » 24 Aug 2007 18:11

I really like the idea of somebody else making the call on who goes intermediate (or the equivalent of) and who goes Open (or the equivalent of).

PS: I've been dying to go Open for a full year now, and I'm super stoked to have (IMO) earned the right to compete against the best at the next tourney I go to.

mc · Post by mc » 24 Aug 2007 18:44

props to you, ben. You have my favorite style of all the intermediates this year. your game is going to grow a lot. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Xain · Post by **Xain** » 24 Aug 2007 20:32

Isilwar wrote:
Xain wrote: Does this sound like a good idea?
I like it, or more people who are in open could back off and go into intermediate.

This wouldn't have the same effect. The idea of having an invitational division means that at least at the beggining of the tournament, the lowest ranked invite is still better than the highest rank open.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 25 Aug 2007 00:05

I think intermediate should be abolished, especially for big events. Is there an intermediate segment of the US Open (in which ever sport you want?) Is there an intermediate Olympics? When you start out at serious sports, you get destroyed. Our football team this year was predominately made up from people who had never played football before. We got absolutely hammered. Still, we improved far more than other team, and after getting beaten repeatedly by over 200 points, we finished off the season losing our last 5 games all by less than 50 points.

That's what sport is like, you can face big challenges, and rise to it, or you can have your mum make sure that the competition is fair, and lose any real sense of achievement.

"world intermediate champion" - what does that title even mean?