Dyno

[Jeremy]

My experience is that reverse whirl requires a much bigger hop. I usually only have to hop during dyno when I either set too high, too strangely, or I am hitting it from a dive or "paradox". Don't get me started on how silly I think it is that reverse whirl and dyno don't get paradox adds. So what if they are easier.

It's not really to do with difficulty, but rather because paradox adds are only given to dexterities that are "full" - while a far reverse whirl or a far dyno do have a full dex, it's an artificial full dex - the bag passes in front of dexing leg in one direction and then back infront in the other direction, and then behind. You could do the same (downtime wiggle style) thing with a butterfly, and do you honestly think infinity should get a pdx add? Artificially making a dexterity full in that manner doesn't give it a pdx add.

I agree that for a normal dyno, there should be very little hop. For a far "pdx" dyno, I'd say the most important thing is to hop and twist slightly immedialty after the set, so that the bag is then positioned in the same place as a non pdx dyno, and then just do the same thing as normal. The same rule applies for all farside moves; set and get into position immediately, perform as normal (maybe slightly faster - depending on the move).

[Ian Brill]

It's not really to do with difficulty, but rather because paradox adds are only given to dexterities that are "full" - while a far reverse whirl or a far dyno do have a full dex, it's an artificial full dex - the bag passes in front of dexing leg in one direction and then back infront in the other direction, and then behind. You could do the same (downtime wiggle style) thing with a butterfly, and do you honestly think infinity should get a pdx add? Artificially making a dexterity full in that manner doesn't give it a pdx add.

With all due respect I don't get this. Reverse whirls and dynos strike me as worthy of paradox. I don't follow your point though I agree that
infinities should not receive a PDX, mostly because there is no hip swiveling, and unnecessary hip swiveling would not have the same dynamic effect imo as an actual dynamic component executed out of necessity between rise and fall. I will consider that until I am better at whirls I am not equipped to say anything but I feel that I know this item well enough to say that it is a subjective difference.

I agree that for a normal dyno, there should be very little hop. For a far "pdx" dyno, I'd say the most important thing is to hop and twist slightly immedialty after the set, so that the bag is then positioned in the same place as a non pdx dyno, and then just do the same thing as normal. The same rule applies for all farside moves; set and get into position immediately, perform as normal (maybe slightly faster - depending on the move).

I couldn't have said this better if I tried.

[Jeremy]

I don't really know what "deserve" means in footbag. Does enterrage "deserve" to be a 4 add? Does pdx dada curve "deserve" to be a 5 add?

While the add system certainly was an attempt to correspond to difficulty (many people deny this, but the history of it is pretty straight forward), it's a technical, generally logical system. In fact the reason you have clear misnomers like enterrage vs pdx dada curve is because it's a technical system.

The rule for pdx is that only moves that have a far full dexterity get a pdx add. Even though a move like blurry whirl has no "hip twist," it gets a pdx add because the second happens on the far side to the set, and the bag has to pass completely infront of, and then behind, and then back in front of the dexing leg. On the other hand, with far reverse whirl, the bag passes infront of the dexing leg, then back infront in the opposite direction, and then behind the dexing leg.

If we break the circle around into 4 parts instead. Lets say North South East West, and lets presume the dex is with our left leg. The bag passes across North, back across North, across East, across South. It never passes across the West side. (the far outside of the dexing leg). So it's not a full dexterity, so it doesn't get a pdx add. The bag has to pass through all 4 points and come from the opposite side of the body to get a pdx add.

[Ian Brill]

When I said deserve I was thinking "qualify the rules of a logical system". From the rules that you have stated it does just that. The explanation with coordinates seems thoughtful and useful. Thanks.

Edit: I understand your explanation. I would agree that this makes much sense regarding whirls, though in contrasting dynos and blenders I see the distinction much less.

[Jeremy]

Ok, sorry for the bump.


I've come to notice that there are two ways of hitting dyno. You can either do it with your leg pointing downwards - ie. all the movement comes from the knee. Or you can do the same action, but lift your knee up as well. Both dexes are outside of the knee, but the second method is much easier. My question is; is the second method clean? Which method is the best technique - not the easiest but the cleanest and best looking?

I ask because there are a lot of moves where I'd consider the "easiest" way of doing them "the" or unclean and I think there is a concern about that in this technique as well, in that it's turning into more a refraction (as in a "butterfly osis") than a dyno. It's still an outside of the knee dex leggy dex, rather than a hippy dex, but less so. It also means you can get away with doing the osis while you're doing the dex, rather than dex then spin, which could be seen as slurry.

Thoughts?

[Ian Brill]

Interesting. I always felt that moves like blender, twirl and dyno were cool because both actions were happening simultaneously, though I often do this the way you say is better by accident.

[Jeremy]

There is certainly fluidity between the actions - I'm not claiming that you should try to make it two seperate motions. However where is the line between blender/dyno and gyro (reverse) swirl? If you fuse those two moves together, you're not hitting a clean blender/dyno are you? You're hitting something different.

[Ian Brill]

I think about this question all of the time.
Wasn't there a groundbreaking (imo) Honza video out last year where he did all of this crazy twirling, swivelling, blender stuff and the whole thread dissolved for similar reasons?

I am glad that you brought this up. I'm gonna think hard about this. I don't feel that variations are necessarily the, though. Especially when they accumulate adds for the same thing. The other thing is, if someone does something slightly different, how do we determine if it's one trick or another? It seems to be more of a question of estimation rather than cleanliness.