Why don't Americans have universal healthcare?

[Switch Kicker]

Don't blow a vein there Jeremy.

And I think Jeremy is a source. Maybe he's not human... He sure doesn't act like one. I think he's just some... thing, and it's a source, with an attitude. But it constantly cites other sources as a cover up, so that people don't think that he's a source...

So, in a way, Jeremy(If that's really his name.) could be considered a tool.

I still don't understand what drives him to go to such lengths to be right... on the fuckin' internet, when arguing with people that couldn't care less that he's right.

Congrats Jeremy, you're still a **tard.

[Colin]

If you're right on the internet, you're right in real life too.

Fred, please stop playing the "ignorance is cooler than knowledge so I remain the winner" card every time you get destroyed in a debate.

[Switch Kicker]

I didn't get destroyed. He didn't make a point, at all. And I don't know what card you're speaking of. Maybe you could explain in a pm.

[Wu_]

Switch Kicker has been destroyed by Jeremy.

Switch Kicker plays out the "ignorance is cooler than knowledge so I remain the winner"-card.

Switch Kicker runs for office.

Switch Kicker has become the leader of a regional church.

Switch Kicker is announced pope.


...

that just came to mind when i read "ignorance is cooler than knowledge so I remain the winner"... sorry ...really... ...sorry!!! I have probably had too much to drink. ...still gonna hit "submit" though... *click*

[Blue_turnip]

Wikipedia and links leading to sources outside of wikipedia. Look it up yourself. This isn't a high school assignment.

And I couldn't find Australia's smoking statistics on a whim, so I didn't bother. And don't need to bother, because if you care enough, you'll look it up yourself. I'm sure you, and Australian, would have much better luck finding it than me.

If you're making the argument, the onus is on you to back it up.

Anyway, I don't see how being australian is going to make it easier to find information regarding australia on the internet.

He didn't make a point, at all.

Lol what the hell?

[Blue_turnip]

I was actually talking to a pro-american friend yesterday who made a comment about America's healthcare being the best in the world in the middle of a conversation. I said it wasn't, but he just laughed dismissively.

How would you define the 'best healthcare system'?

Someone said something like

We actually have the best health care in the world for cancer, and many many other fields. Our government just really fuckin' sucks as making it available to a much larger populace

.

Thats like saying that an army consisting of one ninja is better than 100,000 dudes with pitchforks. The individual warrior is better, only he lacks quantity - he'd get pwnt by the farmers.

I reckon when you define what is best as far as healthcare goes, you have to take into account whether it gets to the people or not. Thats what really matters. You don't need the best equipment or doctors in the world to diagnose and treat the majority of health problems out there. But to claim the healthcare system works you actually need to see everyone getting their fair share out of it.

[Switch Kicker]

It does get to the people. Just not all of them. And it gets to a very large majority.

And now that I really think about it, those that actually want health care coverage (Though i still think the government should provide it), should have to earn it in one way or another. Until the government changes, health care's not going to change. So everyone is in the same boat as everyone else. Those that have it, earn it, and those that don't, (A mojority) don't earn it.

There are many ways to get health care, and it's not exactly fair to bitch about it, when you're not even trying to get it yourself.

It isn't hard to get it for christs sake. I can't afford the gas I use to get around, but I can afford my own health insurance. I haven't been on my parent's insurance for almost a year now. And if I, a single male of age 19 who can't afford the majority of his bills, can afford health insurance, then the rest of America's uninsured just aren't fuckin' trying.

Females, especially single mothers, have so many programs available to them, it's ridiculous. Hell, illegal aliens can get health insurance here, and they do.

[Wu_]

from a german perspective health insurance in the usa is very expensive. for somebody thats only 19 years to tell off all the people that don't have health care for one reason or another sure bites my ass.

One thing i find totally unfair in the usa health care system is that people that don't have insurance get bullied by doctors and hospitals. My mom didn't have health care for awhile and had a small accident and the hospitals and doctors there tried to get her for all she had... fucking assholes... and it is only because there isn't an insurance company that puts pressure on the bills that are being put up. They think they can do whatever the hell they want since you don't have insurance. They put up fake bills and use facilities and other doctors to back it up. Another reason why I fuckin hate the USA most of the time. Luckily we can pay for these bills and my father is quite good at pressuring these bastards. But for people that don't have that much income and try to save where they can this kind of situation can ruin their whole life.

It definitely isn't smart to not have health insurance. One thing is for sure though... Switch kicker ...just because YOU don't need to use your car and rather save that money to use for insurance or whatever other way you come up with the cash doesn't mean the next person can do it the same way like you! And you definitely don't seem to understand that some people just cannot come up with that kind of money. It's called poverty. And one way people try to stay above water is with a job.. and guess what.. most jobs involve you having a car to get there.. especially in the USA.

[funklovesfootbag]

Because the government is in bed with the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Sorry if somebody already said that, I didn't read through.

[HG]

It does get to the people. Just not all of them. And it gets to a very large majority.

And now that I really think about it, those that actually want health care coverage (Though i still think the government should provide it), should have to earn it in one way or another. Until the government changes, health care's not going to change. So everyone is in the same boat as everyone else. Those that have it, earn it, and those that don't, (A mojority) don't earn it.

There are many ways to get health care, and it's not exactly fair to bitch about it, when you're not even trying to get it yourself.

It isn't hard to get it for christs sake. I can't afford the gas I use to get around, but I can afford my own health insurance. I haven't been on my parent's insurance for almost a year now. And if I, a single male of age 19 who can't afford the majority of his bills, can afford health insurance, then the rest of America's uninsured just aren't fuckin' trying.

Females, especially single mothers, have so many programs available to them, it's ridiculous. Hell, illegal aliens can get health insurance here, and they do.

[funklovesfootbag]

HAhahahhahahahahahahahaha. Oh god, maybe I should have read through this post.

And it gets to a very large majority.

Do some research or take a sociology course. The majority of
Americans are uninsured, and even those who have insurance don't always get good service/coverage they can actually afford.

The biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical bills.

American health care in international perspective

Most expensive:
$7000 person/year
17% GDP

Most inequitable:
46 million uninsured
close to 70 million underinsured
1st cause of personal bankruptcy (75% insured)
18, 000 deaths/year because of too little or no insurance


37th overall system’s performance, below all OECD nations (& below Portugal and Saudi Arabia) among 191 nations (WHO 2000)

Below Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and UK in quality, access, efficiency, equity (Commonwealth Fund 2007)


Bottom Line: US Healthcare Sucks.

[Tsiangkun]

American social services suck because America is run by a foreign government.

No longer a democratic republic for the people, today the government is run by, and exists, solely to satisfy the needs of its corporate citizens. Corporate personhood has created two nation states in one physical geographical region. The government serves one, imprisons the other.

The two party system is rigged. No matter the candidate, we still are not the citizens. The corporation is the new plantation, their owners the slave masters, and we are the new class of slave.



[/quote]

[Switch Kicker]

from a german perspective health insurance in the usa is very expensive. for somebody thats only 19 years to tell off all the people that don't have health care for one reason or another sure bites my ass.

One thing i find totally unfair in the usa health care system is that people that don't have insurance get bullied by doctors and hospitals. My mom didn't have health care for awhile and had a small accident and the hospitals and doctors there tried to get her for all she had... fucking assholes... and it is only because there isn't an insurance company that puts pressure on the bills that are being put up. They think they can do whatever the hell they want since you don't have insurance. They put up fake bills and use facilities and other doctors to back it up. Another reason why I fuckin hate the USA most of the time. Luckily we can pay for these bills and my father is quite good at pressuring these bastards. But for people that don't have that much income and try to save where they can this kind of situation can ruin their whole life.

It definitely isn't smart to not have health insurance. One thing is for sure though... Switch kicker ...just because YOU don't need to use your car and rather save that money to use for insurance or whatever other way you come up with the cash doesn't mean the next person can do it the same way like you! And you definitely don't seem to understand that some people just cannot come up with that kind of money. It's called poverty. And one way people try to stay above water is with a job.. and guess what.. most jobs involve you having a car to get there.. especially in the USA.

I never said that people have to choose between driving their car and getting health insurance (Because I don't), because there are plently of ways to get health insurance. If you're SOOO fucked financially, join the military. Or if you can't do that, then you sure as hell do qualify for some form of government health insurance that's cheap enough to get you what you need.

Everyone in this country starts out with a step ahead of the game. We're all almost even. Sure the rich kids do get more help and have a better chance, but that doesn't lower your chances of becoming successful in life. I think the only reason people don't have health insurance is because they fucked around in school and didn't shape up in time before their 'rents finally kicked there ass out on the street.

It may seem kind of stupid to quote a movie, but it's just like in Pursuit of Happyness. If you want something, go get it. It all starts with laziness and irresponsibility. That's not the government's fault, it's your parents.

[Switch Kicker]

HAhahahhahahahahahahahaha. Oh god, maybe I should have read through this post.

And it gets to a very large majority.

Do some research or take a sociology course. The majority of
Americans are uninsured, and even those who have insurance don't always get good service/coverage they can actually afford.


Most inequitable:
46 million uninsured

US population: 300 million.

What is that... 85%? Yeah, it is. I'm afraid 85% would be considered a very large majority.

And it's closer to 43 million when I checked a few days ago.

It does get to the people. Just not all of them. And it gets to a very large majority.

And now that I really think about it, those that actually want health care coverage (Though i still think the government should provide it), should have to earn it in one way or another. Until the government changes, health care's not going to change. So everyone is in the same boat as everyone else. Those that have it, earn it, and those that don't, (A mojority) don't earn it.

There are many ways to get health care, and it's not exactly fair to bitch about it, when you're not even trying to get it yourself.

It isn't hard to get it for christs sake. I can't afford the gas I use to get around, but I can afford my own health insurance. I haven't been on my parent's insurance for almost a year now. And if I, a single male of age 19 who can't afford the majority of his bills, can afford health insurance, then the rest of America's uninsured just aren't fuckin' trying.

Females, especially single mothers, have so many programs available to them, it's ridiculous. Hell, illegal aliens can get health insurance here, and they do.

And you simply misread that.

When I said, "and those that don't, (A majority) don't earn it." I was referring to the majority of those that don't have it, not the US population as a whole.

[CautionFragile]

I think a single ninja can take out those farmers hands down.

[BainbridgeShred]

This whole argument is retarded. Medical industries whether socialized or capitalized suck. It just depends on your circumstances and ailments. Some systems work better for some people, some work better for the other.

[Blue_turnip]

American social services suck because America is run by a foreign government.

Thats right! A pox on those foreigners, they've taken over the government! They're the root of all our problems! lets chase them down with pitchforks and torches and burn their houses down!

Business is wrong - its the scourge of any country that aims to be a democracy with good health schemes!

Everyone in this country starts out with a step ahead of the game. We're all almost even... Sure the rich kids do get more help and have a better chance, but that doesn't lower your chances of becoming successful in life

Bullshit.

yeah, 43 million poor motherfuckers who don't have health insurance. 85% can suck my cock - its a statistical euphemism. 43 million people.

I think a single ninja can take out those farmers hands down.

Never! hillbillies ftw

[Jeremy]

The amount of people without insurance is missing the point. The vast majority of people who do have insurance in the US are still not completely covered, and have to pay excess, or even the whole bill for some medical procedures. People who are sick for a long time have their premiums increased constantly, or are refused continuations to their plans. Insurance companies do everything possible to avoid paying money out to their members. People with health insurance are sometimes only covered if they got to particular hospitals.

The movie "Sicko" wasn't about the people without any health insurance at all; it was about the people who do have health insurance, but still weren't covered for their medical procedures. Some examples from the movie.

A woman's child is sick. She takes him to the hospital where the doctors diagnose the child and begin treating him. They then tell her the health insurance people have said they won't pay for the treatment there, but she'll have to go to another hospital. The child dies on the way to the other hospital.

A woman displays symptoms of having a serious brain problem. Her doctor recommends she have a brain scan. The health insurance company refuses to pay for it (claiming their medical advise is that it isn't necessary). The woman collapses in Japan, is given free medical treatment and it turns out she has a massive brain tumour. The doctor who signed the documents saying that she didn't need a brain scan says he's never seen the forms, they were just stamped with his signature by somebody else (with his permission).

A woman is diagnosed with a tumour. The insurance company refused to pay for treatment, claiming it was non-life threatening. Woman dies because of tumour.

A woman is diagnosed with cancer. The insurance company refuses to pay for it because they claim it was a pre existing condition.

etc. etc.

85% of Americans might have health insurance, but that doesn't mean that they actually have any kind of cover if they get sick. Health insurance companies employ people whose job is to find reasons not to pay for sick peoples medical expenses.

Universal health cover means that regardless of if you're health insurance company is willing to pay for your treatment or not, you'll still get that treatment.

[Switch Kicker]

I think universal health care would be great. Really, it'd be just dandy. But I still don't see a big enough problem where I live to agree that universal health care is "needed."

IMO, there has to be some kind of population control.

As for movies about health insurance companies fucking you over, I absolutely loved John Q. Just thinking about some of the scenes is tear jerking.

[Blue_turnip]

I think universal health care would be great. Really, it'd be just dandy. But I still don't see a big enough problem where I live to agree that universal health care is "needed."

IMO, there has to be some kind of population control.

It is dandy!