Evolution

[Blue_turnip]

It's interesting how religious people expect us to succumb to their religious beliefs though. Like I tend to apologise for blaspheming around Christians as well, when they tell me they don't like it; but I find their whole views of the world a offensive, and I don't ask them to pretend not to be Christians when I'm around. Why are non believers expected to tolerate religious views? Why aren't religious people expected to tolerate non religious views? If you look at any religious view, there is a majority of people who believe that particular view is rubbish, the default should be for religious people to not expect others to abide by their beliefs.

I like Sam Harris' view of things. We shouldn't call ourselves "atheists," we should just call ourselves "normal." (Not his exact words, but they were to that effect).

Yes. I hate the way religious people get all offended when you say stuff that opposes your view, but then you go and answer the door to a pack of jahovas witness people preaching to you about how you need to follow them.

edited derogatory homophobia - dyalander

[Switch Kicker]

Your DNA does not "mutate." Mutating DNA is not the cause of evolution.

Actually, it does.

Bleh, yeah. I know, really worded that wrong. I meant that your DNA doesn't really mutate after it's already been, you know... made. Like, you're born, you're 20 years old... your DNA isn't gonna mutate, you're not gonna grow a 11th finger at age 30... You know?

White wolves are white because they blend in with snow. If we had purple or red wolves running around.. well, they'd stick out like a sore thumb. At one point, they very well may have been a red wolf, or some other color that sticks out. However, natural selection kills off the disadvantaged wolf, and the white wolf lives on to reproduce. DNA is not altered. (Debatable, but as far as evolution is concerned, it has no effect.) You can not alter your own DNA to make it so you have a more pronounced chin, or more acute ears. It's not possible (At least not now or anytime in the next century). However, when you combine two people's DNA, (have sex and reproduce) this creates a new strand of DNA that has thousands of different possible combinations. Actually billions, but w/e. When combining two different DNA strands, it makes a new DNA, that is different. By making many different DNA possibilities, you have weak ones, and strong ones. In animals, the weaker ones die off to natural selection, and the stronger live to reproduce. Humans is another story. We have the most dominate DNA ever known. We do not live in natural selection, because we're human beings who try to live in peace.

Your argument is also mind boggling. You've failed to consider all the asexual organisms on this planet, such as the good old favourite bacteria.

Can you explain why these organisms are able to evolve millions of times faster than humans, despite the fact that your theory says they shouldn't at all?

Its because when one bacterium splits into two, its very very hard to replicate the DNA perfectly, and you'll get a degree of error. This causes mutation, and is critical to any species survival (but it involves a lot of death as well).

If your DNA didn't get mutated, how would kids be born with twelve fingers. Their parents didn't have twelve fingers, so explain that!

I posted my simple explanation and evidence of evolution somewhere earlier in this thread, but I'm feeling a desire to enforce it:

1. English babies come from English parents, and Chinese babies come from Chinese parents.

(We recognise that you carry traits on from your parents).

2. I am also different to my parents. I'm taller than them both. (This is most likely because of a recessive gene, but it illustrates the point)

(We see that people are also different to their parents)

3. An athletic person capable of climbing up a tree to get fruit, or a person with a mutated half-leg, and is thus more likely to surive.

(The 'better' organism will live on and most likely, root.)


Unless you're to deny these obvious facts, you essentially support evolution.

Didn't think to... And who exactly are you talking to here?

[ted]

Your DNA does not "mutate." Mutating DNA is not the cause of evolution.

Actually, it does.

Bleh, yeah. I know, really worded that wrong. I meant that your DNA doesn't really mutate after it's already been, you know... made.

Actually, it does.

[Switch Kicker]

Actually, it does.

Bleh, yeah. I know, really worded that wrong. I meant that your DNA doesn't really mutate after it's already been, you know... made.

Actually, it does.

If you're going to be so ignorant as to quote me and then not even put in my FULL explanation for what I had meant to say, then don't post anything. Wtf man.

Yes, DNA does mutate, but not like, growing an extra finger, like I already said, yet you conveniently didn't include in the quote.

[dudeguyman]

part of evolution is natural selection. the other part has to do with mutation. also the ones that mutate to have more adapted traits to the environment will live on. but these mutations start at birth. i never said anything about mutating mid life... all of that makes total sense. it has no opposing arguement to the bible. the only arguement is wether or not god created us all. i wanted the truth. if the promise of god is real then i will give my life to it. if the promise of god has the possibility of being true then i will give my life to finding it. i have sought out god and i have found him but i am not offended when people don't beleive me and i don't think i press myself on anyone. my whole idea on how it all works makes perfect sense to me.

[ted]

Your DNA does not "mutate."

I meant that your DNA doesn't really mutate

Yes, DNA does mutate

So which is it, Fred? Get off the fence. I'd love to stick around and split hairs with you but I have to get back to work here. In the lab. Sequencing DNA.

Oh, and I'll be sure to inform the scientific community that polydactyly is the new yardstick for genetic mutation.

[Switch Kicker]

Your DNA does not "mutate."

I meant that your DNA doesn't really mutate

Yes, DNA does mutate

Meant it as in, not growing extra limbs or eye color changing.

No one here but you is splitting hairs. Quit trying to start an argument.

[Switch Kicker]

Bleh, yeah. I know, really worded that wrong. I meant that your DNA doesn't really mutate after it's already been, you know... made. Like, you're born, you're 20 years old... your DNA isn't gonna mutate, you're not gonna grow a 11th finger at age 30... You know?

There's the full quote, asshole. The whole paragraph suggests one thing. That major mutations of the DNA do not occur. So sit down please.

I said DNA doesn't mutate. Then I gave an example of what I mean. Just because I say DNA doesn't mutate, does not mean that it literally does not mutate at all, especially after giving you an example of the extremity I was talking about. Take your bullshit somewhere else. Everyone here knows what I mean, if you choose to be stupid about it, keep it to yourself.

[ted]

you're not gonna grow a 11th finger at age 30... You know?

Right, you know why you won't be sprouting extra fingers or changing colors? Because that isn't the way DNA mutates. You're talking about cell identity issues and gene transcription more than DNA mutation. Anyways...

The whole paragraph suggests one thing. That major mutations of the DNA do not occur.

I would call chromosomal rearrangements a "major" mutation, woudn't you? Know what happens when chunks of chromosomes in your somatic cells decide to break apart and fuse to other chromosomes? Adult-onset Leukemia. Lymphoma. Unchecked cell growth. Cancer.

Google 'chromosomal translocation' before you go declaring that major DNA mutations do not happen, doctor.

[Switch Kicker]

you're not gonna grow a 11th finger at age 30... You know?

Right, you know why you won't be sprouting extra fingers or changing colors? Because that isn't the way DNA mutates. You're talking about cell identity issues and gene transcription more than DNA mutation. Anyways...

The whole paragraph suggests one thing. That major mutations of the DNA do not occur.

I would call chromosomal rearrangements a "major" mutation, woudn't you? Know what happens when chunks of chromosomes in your somatic cells decide to break apart and fuse to other chromosomes? Adult-onset Leukemia. Lymphoma. Unchecked cell growth. Cancer.

Google 'chromosomal translocation' before you go declaring that major DNA mutations do not happen, doctor.

Now you're just taking the point in a completely different direction. Cancer isn't an adaptation.

Natural selection (evolution) occurs from how your DNA is put together at conception, not how your DNA fucks up and gives you cancer later on in life. DNA will not make your legs grow to make you faster throughout your life. DNA will not make your hearing better (However anxiety and adrenaline can do that). DNA will not give you the eyes of a hawk.

And whoever's DNA at CONCEPTION is better, will be the dominant person/animal. You're talking about something completely different.

[Blue_turnip]

I posted my simple explanation and evidence of evolution somewhere earlier in this thread, but I'm feeling a desire to enforce it:

1. English babies come from English parents, and Chinese babies come from Chinese parents.

(We recognise that you carry traits on from your parents).

2. I am also different to my parents. I'm taller than them both. (This is most likely because of a recessive gene, but it illustrates the point)

(We see that people are also different to their parents)

3. An athletic person capable of climbing up a tree to get fruit, or a person with a mutated half-leg, and is thus more likely to surive.

(The 'better' organism will live on and most likely, root.)


Unless you're to deny these obvious facts, you essentially support evolution.

Didn't think to... And who exactly are you talking to here?

It was just a general statement to noone in particular.

[Blue_turnip]

part of evolution is natural selection. the other part has to do with mutation. also the ones that mutate to have more adapted traits to the environment will live on. but these mutations start at birth. i never said anything about mutating mid life... all of that makes total sense. it has no opposing arguement to the bible. the only arguement is wether or not god created us all. i wanted the truth. if the promise of god is real then i will give my life to it. if the promise of god has the possibility of being true then i will give my life to finding it. i have sought out god and i have found him but i am not offended when people don't beleive me and i don't think i press myself on anyone. my whole idea on how it all works makes perfect sense to me.

Thats fine.

[ted]

Now you're just taking the point in a completely different direction.

Sorry bud, I didn't mean to get off topic here. I was just pointing out that, once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Kind of like the times you suggested that fast food is healthy or that black holes are planets. Somebody should compile all the nuggets of wisdom you drop around here.

I'll leave you to your authoritative speculation on evolution.

[Switch Kicker]

Now you're just taking the point in a completely different direction.

Sorry bud, I didn't mean to get off topic here. I was just pointing out that, once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Kind of like the times you suggested that fast food is healthy or that black holes are planets. Somebody should compile all the nuggets of wisdom you drop around here.

I'll leave you to your authoritative speculation on evolution.

Let me help you with your problem. I even picked a spot that's within a decent radius of you.



And directions...

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Fort+Coll ... p&ct=title

You'll know what to do when you get there.

[Switch Kicker]

Oops, my bad. Wrong link.

Here you go,

link

[Blue_turnip]

I don't get it, but it doesn't sound too good.

No need to fill the thread with crap just because he owned you.

[Switch Kicker]

There is a difference between listening to another person and considering that there might be a different meaning to what they said, rather than just assuming you know what's going on, and blindly assuming you have a grip on what's going on and being and arrogant ass about explaining to someone that they're wrong about something they weren't even talking about.

[Blue_turnip]

I don't want to make an argument, cos really, there shouldn't be a big deal. But the onus is always on the person who's making his point, to make it unambiguous and open to minimal interpretations (unless they're some pretentious artist). Who cares, its cool. I know what you mean.edited derogatory homophobia -dyalander

[Jeremy]

"Mutations" is a very misleading word when you're talking about evolution, because the word also has very significant pop culture connotations. When you talk about mutations in evolution, the ones that you see in Hollywood movies are almost always (if not always) negative, and don't lead to much progress in evolution. The "mutations" that foster evolution are things like you being taller than both your parents (and everybody else in your direct family), or you having slightly better vision. The chance of you having better or worse vision are the same, but obviously one "mutation" gives you a slightly higher chance of survival than the other, and if you have a slightly higher chance of survival then you have a slightly higher chance of breeding as well.

The mutations that Fred was talking about (having an extra finger etc.) these kinds of "mutations" really have very little (if anything) to do with evolution. There is some debate about if they play an impact or not, but it's important to note that there are no examples in evolution where scientists think that an extreme mutation like that directed the evolution of a species. Even if you look at something like the number of fingers that mammals have (which varies), we see slow changes presumably based on how many fingers they used, rather than any sudden growths or losses of extra fingers (like one finger might get smaller and smaller over generations, until it disappears).

DNA mutations also definitely occur in people after they are born (as well as in the process of reproduction). I think the odds of it occurring naturally are about 1 in 100 million DNA replications , although DNA also has "repairing" proteins which usually fix this mistakes. However there are a number of external factors that can cause DNA mutation as well (see those Hollywood movies ).

[Blue_turnip]

Sigh... If only I was exposed to gamma rays as a child.