since that has changed recently, and now lies in canadian favour, i'm kind of tempted to buy more bags from u.s. stitcher. would i be willing to pay $40? well, not any more.Erik Chan wrote:because I live in Canada and the exchange was much more in the favour of the U.S.A.
Footbag Prices
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hacksterbator
- Washed-Up Child Star
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Oh how the tables have turned...hacksterbator wrote:since that has changed recently, and now lies in canadian favour, i'm kind of tempted to buy more bags from u.s. stitcher. would i be willing to pay $40? well, not any more.Erik Chan wrote:because I live in Canada and the exchange was much more in the favour of the U.S.A.
Holy crap. Everyone is thinking about raising their prices. Maybe I should drop my prices so that I can make more profit.
BUY! BUY!
edit: To be seriously on topic, there is only one truth that comes with stitching: it doesn't pay the bills. Stitching 32s does not pay for bills, it does not provide a stable living. I know. I stitched and abused my arm for the past two years to understand this logic. It pays for dinner, it pays partially for public transportation. You have a job in order to pay for the bills. Stitching is just extra, a single love that a person has in turning scraps of facile into a wonderfully performing 32 paneled bag.
Once you open up that last seam before its completion, you fill your 32 with the filler you thought of (before even stitching that particular bag in the first place), you pull the thread then knot to finish the panel. You then tuck the knot away and knead the bag a little so that the stitches even out. You have yourself a completed 32 paneled bag, a creation out of nothing but your imagination.
Every time I hold facile in my hands, holding a needle and thread between my fingers and inspecting filler, I still have a childhood fascination to stitch bags. It is my universe, my world, and I agree completely with Matt Cross of seeing people's bright faces in response to the bags that I make and how it just "WOWS!" them to no end. I like to think of endless designs that perform well and excites people's eyes. I like to think of the performance of fabric, thread, and technique in making a bag. I always imagine how filler plays a role inside of bags - how they are detrimental, how they are beneficial. And especially when I hold a lighter in my hands, I don't think of smoking or lighting candles, i think of burning a knot into my thread.
If that's not love for stitching, I don't know what is. It is definitely for the community. The price is just merely menial compensation for the task.
One can say that increasing the price on a 32 (or bag in general) is to add to profit. Or in terms of compensation, for their time wasted in making a bag for someone else. Increasing the price to compensate for the hours wasted is just making it more capitalistic; this is an Americanized trend that is instituted around the world, developed around or even before the Industrial Revolution. This is why I was reluctant to increase my prices for bags in my For Sale page, but I have good reason to do so:
1. Instead of spending time stitching, I want to play more. More. MORE. All I think about is stitching. It's become an obsession. The first thing I talk to footbaggers about is the quality of the footbag and discuss about it. I don't want that, i think it has hindered my playing career in footbag. I think I may retire if this becomes too severe. I've become a complete dork about stitching, when in fact I could spend this time to reach into guiltless/tripless level of footbag. Playing is much more important than stitching, guys and gals.
2. My arm is completely shot. I can't handle the repetitive motions of sewing anymore. My back aches if I spend so much time sitting down to sew a footbag. It has come to the point that I spend a lot of time sleeping in because of a bad back, and I have to stretch aplenty between panels to complete a footbag. I only raised my price because I don't really do so many orders for footbags anymore, and my drive to sew healthily is dwindling. I elevated my price to $35 so that it helps compensate for this flaw of mine, and also to make it more comfortable for me stitch consistently at my pace for other people. For a $40+ footbag, I have some reasons that this price range is possible, but also several more reasons why this price is not suitable for some people. It's truly dependent on the sewer (and again, i stress that stitching footbags hardly makes much of a living without something else to supplement it).
Long post! Killer.
BUY! BUY!
edit: To be seriously on topic, there is only one truth that comes with stitching: it doesn't pay the bills. Stitching 32s does not pay for bills, it does not provide a stable living. I know. I stitched and abused my arm for the past two years to understand this logic. It pays for dinner, it pays partially for public transportation. You have a job in order to pay for the bills. Stitching is just extra, a single love that a person has in turning scraps of facile into a wonderfully performing 32 paneled bag.
Once you open up that last seam before its completion, you fill your 32 with the filler you thought of (before even stitching that particular bag in the first place), you pull the thread then knot to finish the panel. You then tuck the knot away and knead the bag a little so that the stitches even out. You have yourself a completed 32 paneled bag, a creation out of nothing but your imagination.
Every time I hold facile in my hands, holding a needle and thread between my fingers and inspecting filler, I still have a childhood fascination to stitch bags. It is my universe, my world, and I agree completely with Matt Cross of seeing people's bright faces in response to the bags that I make and how it just "WOWS!" them to no end. I like to think of endless designs that perform well and excites people's eyes. I like to think of the performance of fabric, thread, and technique in making a bag. I always imagine how filler plays a role inside of bags - how they are detrimental, how they are beneficial. And especially when I hold a lighter in my hands, I don't think of smoking or lighting candles, i think of burning a knot into my thread.
If that's not love for stitching, I don't know what is. It is definitely for the community. The price is just merely menial compensation for the task.
One can say that increasing the price on a 32 (or bag in general) is to add to profit. Or in terms of compensation, for their time wasted in making a bag for someone else. Increasing the price to compensate for the hours wasted is just making it more capitalistic; this is an Americanized trend that is instituted around the world, developed around or even before the Industrial Revolution. This is why I was reluctant to increase my prices for bags in my For Sale page, but I have good reason to do so:
1. Instead of spending time stitching, I want to play more. More. MORE. All I think about is stitching. It's become an obsession. The first thing I talk to footbaggers about is the quality of the footbag and discuss about it. I don't want that, i think it has hindered my playing career in footbag. I think I may retire if this becomes too severe. I've become a complete dork about stitching, when in fact I could spend this time to reach into guiltless/tripless level of footbag. Playing is much more important than stitching, guys and gals.
2. My arm is completely shot. I can't handle the repetitive motions of sewing anymore. My back aches if I spend so much time sitting down to sew a footbag. It has come to the point that I spend a lot of time sleeping in because of a bad back, and I have to stretch aplenty between panels to complete a footbag. I only raised my price because I don't really do so many orders for footbags anymore, and my drive to sew healthily is dwindling. I elevated my price to $35 so that it helps compensate for this flaw of mine, and also to make it more comfortable for me stitch consistently at my pace for other people. For a $40+ footbag, I have some reasons that this price range is possible, but also several more reasons why this price is not suitable for some people. It's truly dependent on the sewer (and again, i stress that stitching footbags hardly makes much of a living without something else to supplement it).
Long post! Killer.
Waylon Lew - maker of Wasabi bags
NYFA represent.
"Footbag can be pretty frustrating when it's supposed to be fun. I was partly driven by this forum - practice, practice, practice... As that is true, I think someone can be too focused on progressing and training that they miss the fun aspect of it." - Bander87
NYFA represent.
"Footbag can be pretty frustrating when it's supposed to be fun. I was partly driven by this forum - practice, practice, practice... As that is true, I think someone can be too focused on progressing and training that they miss the fun aspect of it." - Bander87
Stitching bags helps with the costs of going to as many events as I can, which means I go to more events and see some of my favourite people more often.
$30 is fair. $40 would be nice. I'd never even consider buying a bag over $40, so I think some expectations of making more than that per bag is kind of ridiculous.
You're not putting gold in your bags... although stitchers who use tungsten should charge a bit more than others simply because material costs are a lot more.
$30 is fair. $40 would be nice. I'd never even consider buying a bag over $40, so I think some expectations of making more than that per bag is kind of ridiculous.
You're not putting gold in your bags... although stitchers who use tungsten should charge a bit more than others simply because material costs are a lot more.
Pengpeng Du
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Senor Grommet
- Post Master General
- Posts: 3394
- Joined: 18 Oct 2002 20:25
- Location: Greater Santa Cruz, CA
I like how this discussion is going so far, how it is staying on topic, so I think I'll add a few more ideas and possibly answer some of the "feedback" I received about my first post.
First of all, remember that these thoughts are coming from an ex-stitcher, an ex stitcher who got burned out because demand was always very high and time was limited.
Secondly, Dat, I only started selling at 20-25 bucks because I was just starting out, wasn't confident in my product, and wanted to corner a certain niche in the marketplace.
I was one of the first stitchers to start making SMALL bags actually. I started doing so after I bought a Mike Wilson bag. I like to think that I was the impetus for Richie to start making his mini bags, because mine were selling so well over the internet on Modified.
I care very little about what the non-footbag stitcher thinks about bag prices because I don't have to please them anymore. For the purposes of this discussion, I am only thinking about stitching from a monetary perspective.
I'd like to know more than a handful of stitchers who can make "quality" footbags in 1.5 to 2 hours, which I would assume includes panel tracing and cut-out.
Does anyone know Paul Munger? How much were his bags back in the day? I bet they were at least 30 bucks . . . and that was like 95 or so.
I can think of only 1 stitcher who has not retired from stitching, Richard Abshire. Hmm, I wonder why this is? Possibly because in the long run the time and effort involved in stitching footbags faaaaaar outweighs the enjoyment and compensation of the task. This seems to be the reason people stop.
People who think 20 dollars is a lot for a "hacky sack" can go spend 8.50 (7.95 CDN) for a Hacky Sack at their local sporting goods store. We're talking about professional grade footbags here, and 20 dollars for a bag of such craftsmanship is quite honestly insulting (not trying to attack the poster who posted this).
It is interesting that some stitchers think that 30 dollars for a footbag is a lot of money and wouldn't think to sell for more. This makes me think that they either don't have the demand, they don't feel their product is worth more money, or the jobs in their area don't pay better than stitching (and stitching is inherently better than a regular job because it is footbag related).
First of all, remember that these thoughts are coming from an ex-stitcher, an ex stitcher who got burned out because demand was always very high and time was limited.
Secondly, Dat, I only started selling at 20-25 bucks because I was just starting out, wasn't confident in my product, and wanted to corner a certain niche in the marketplace.
I was one of the first stitchers to start making SMALL bags actually. I started doing so after I bought a Mike Wilson bag. I like to think that I was the impetus for Richie to start making his mini bags, because mine were selling so well over the internet on Modified.
I care very little about what the non-footbag stitcher thinks about bag prices because I don't have to please them anymore. For the purposes of this discussion, I am only thinking about stitching from a monetary perspective.
I'd like to know more than a handful of stitchers who can make "quality" footbags in 1.5 to 2 hours, which I would assume includes panel tracing and cut-out.
Does anyone know Paul Munger? How much were his bags back in the day? I bet they were at least 30 bucks . . . and that was like 95 or so.
I can think of only 1 stitcher who has not retired from stitching, Richard Abshire. Hmm, I wonder why this is? Possibly because in the long run the time and effort involved in stitching footbags faaaaaar outweighs the enjoyment and compensation of the task. This seems to be the reason people stop.
People who think 20 dollars is a lot for a "hacky sack" can go spend 8.50 (7.95 CDN) for a Hacky Sack at their local sporting goods store. We're talking about professional grade footbags here, and 20 dollars for a bag of such craftsmanship is quite honestly insulting (not trying to attack the poster who posted this).
It is interesting that some stitchers think that 30 dollars for a footbag is a lot of money and wouldn't think to sell for more. This makes me think that they either don't have the demand, they don't feel their product is worth more money, or the jobs in their area don't pay better than stitching (and stitching is inherently better than a regular job because it is footbag related).
My name: Jeremy Mirken, AKA Chocolatey Shatner, AKA jerk enemy rim.
I kick it with trunk chef elf and liz luck key my.
I kick it with trunk chef elf and liz luck key my.
I would like to also think about how filler can contribute to the quality of a bag, particularly lead. For some time now, I've heard a lot of people remarking lead as a standard filler for footbag use, how well it performs and how people should not worry so much of the toxicity of lead. Still, lead is a toxic element, and if comes into contact with children, can still be detrimental to their health. Now, I would like to think how health risks, even to a small degree, can still affect the quality of a product. If a child comes into contact with a room filled with lead shot on the floor, or a bag that is fully broken in with lead fill, what degree of contact with lead does it interact with that child? It may not affect us greatly, but for me who usually interacts with a 2 year old nephew and 5 year old niece, I try to my best judgment keep lead away from them as far as possible.
As for Tungsten, Pengpeng, didn't you say that if inhaling the fumes of Tungsten it would cause lung problems? Breathing disorientation? I think that's a health risk, even if the material is known to be non-toxic. Sure, a bag with it's fabric encapsulating the filler within would not expose the fumes so easily out into the air wouldn't pose much risk, but I think the Penske Pro's crushed panne material is somewhat porous. Do they use Bismuth? The small traces of Tungsten would probably not be so noticeable, so I doubt there might be much concern. This is just something I want to talk about, since most of the stitchers I see here are Tungsten-crazy.
And I don't know about skin contact with Tungsten during wash, and whether if there's any malignant residue left. Just throwing this out there.
As far as I know, steel is the best imo. People just need to be aware on how to wash it and when to wash it. Rust is apparent, we all know that, but there are ways to prevent rust. Also, zinc-plated steel shot prevents rusting to some degree. And in terms of its use, I've made plenty of mini bags with steel in it and the performance still works pretty well. That, and steel shot like the planetfootbag shot is top-notch, so I think people should try to find a way to get themselves a supply of their own from their own local steel mills.
As for Tungsten, Pengpeng, didn't you say that if inhaling the fumes of Tungsten it would cause lung problems? Breathing disorientation? I think that's a health risk, even if the material is known to be non-toxic. Sure, a bag with it's fabric encapsulating the filler within would not expose the fumes so easily out into the air wouldn't pose much risk, but I think the Penske Pro's crushed panne material is somewhat porous. Do they use Bismuth? The small traces of Tungsten would probably not be so noticeable, so I doubt there might be much concern. This is just something I want to talk about, since most of the stitchers I see here are Tungsten-crazy.
And I don't know about skin contact with Tungsten during wash, and whether if there's any malignant residue left. Just throwing this out there.
As far as I know, steel is the best imo. People just need to be aware on how to wash it and when to wash it. Rust is apparent, we all know that, but there are ways to prevent rust. Also, zinc-plated steel shot prevents rusting to some degree. And in terms of its use, I've made plenty of mini bags with steel in it and the performance still works pretty well. That, and steel shot like the planetfootbag shot is top-notch, so I think people should try to find a way to get themselves a supply of their own from their own local steel mills.
Waylon Lew - maker of Wasabi bags
NYFA represent.
"Footbag can be pretty frustrating when it's supposed to be fun. I was partly driven by this forum - practice, practice, practice... As that is true, I think someone can be too focused on progressing and training that they miss the fun aspect of it." - Bander87
NYFA represent.
"Footbag can be pretty frustrating when it's supposed to be fun. I was partly driven by this forum - practice, practice, practice... As that is true, I think someone can be too focused on progressing and training that they miss the fun aspect of it." - Bander87
How many ex-stitchers still freestyle? Richie does. Do you still freestyle at all, Jeremy? I'm not really trying to argue either... I'm actually curious which stitchers used to stitch who don't anymore, whether they actually played, and whether they still play... that's certainly pertinent.Senor Grommet wrote:I can think of only 1 stitcher who has not retired from stitching, Richard Abshire. Hmm, I wonder why this is? Possibly because in the long run the time and effort involved in stitching footbags faaaaaar outweighs the enjoyment and compensation of the task. This seems to be the reason people stop.
Waylon, here's some things I sought and found out after my little discussion with you.
After consulting my prof and more research material, I found that it's not easy to inhale tungsten dust from the way we are handling it and the amount is a negligible risk. Only in factory conditions where large amounts tungsten dust particles are floating in the air from fans and poor ventilation does it pose any risk at all for lung cysts. The dust from the dust of tungsten shot is too large and heavy to become airborne easily and the studies do prove that it is a non-toxic metal. You're more likely to inhale other particles in your surroundings than you are tungsten, even if you handle it.
In conclusion: Don't snort tungsten.
After consulting my prof and more research material, I found that it's not easy to inhale tungsten dust from the way we are handling it and the amount is a negligible risk. Only in factory conditions where large amounts tungsten dust particles are floating in the air from fans and poor ventilation does it pose any risk at all for lung cysts. The dust from the dust of tungsten shot is too large and heavy to become airborne easily and the studies do prove that it is a non-toxic metal. You're more likely to inhale other particles in your surroundings than you are tungsten, even if you handle it.
In conclusion: Don't snort tungsten.
Pengpeng Du
There goes my policy for snorting Pengbags. 
Waylon Lew - maker of Wasabi bags
NYFA represent.
"Footbag can be pretty frustrating when it's supposed to be fun. I was partly driven by this forum - practice, practice, practice... As that is true, I think someone can be too focused on progressing and training that they miss the fun aspect of it." - Bander87
NYFA represent.
"Footbag can be pretty frustrating when it's supposed to be fun. I was partly driven by this forum - practice, practice, practice... As that is true, I think someone can be too focused on progressing and training that they miss the fun aspect of it." - Bander87
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CIC flurry
- Amazingly Sexy Man-Beast
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wolfpac444
- Your Friendly Admin
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Richie started making the minis pretty much right after Ted and I had gone down there had a session where we played with a Mike Wilson bag and (I think) one of your bags.Senor Grommet wrote:I was one of the first stitchers to start making SMALL bags actually. I started doing so after I bought a Mike Wilson bag. I like to think that I was the impetus for Richie to start making his mini bags, because mine were selling so well over the internet on Modified.
Mike Hansen
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funklovesfootbag
- Womanizer
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Footbags are worth at least $40 for the amount of work that goes into them if you count the time it takes to make an individual bag + the amount of time it takes to learn to stitch a good bag.
Unfortunately most footbaggers can't afford/aren't willing to pay that much for a footbag. That's why it's always going to be a side income for me and not a career.
Unfortunately most footbaggers can't afford/aren't willing to pay that much for a footbag. That's why it's always going to be a side income for me and not a career.
Fletcher Funk...
*Retired From Stitching*
(and basically freestyle.)
*Retired From Stitching*
(and basically freestyle.)