Animal Rights Activists and integrity

This section is specifically for serious non-footbag debate and discussion.
Post Reply
User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Animal Rights Activists and integrity

Post by Jeremy »

Professor Edythe London wrote:For years, I have watched with growing concern as my UCLA colleagues have been subjected to increasing harassment, violence and threats by animal rights extremists. In the last 15 months, these attempts at intimidation have included the placement of a Molotov cocktail-type device at a colleague's home and another under a colleague's car -- thankfully, they didn't ignite -- as well as rocks thrown through windows, phone and e-mail threats, banging on doors in the middle of the night and, on several occasions, direct confrontations with young children.

Then, several weeks ago, an article in the San Francisco Chronicle about the work I have been doing to understand and treat nicotine addition among adolescents informed readers that some of my research is done on primates. I was instantly on my guard. Would I be the next victim? Would the more extremist elements of the animal rights movement now turn their sights on me?

The answer came this week when the Animal Liberation Front claimed responsibility for vandalism that caused between $20,000 and $30,000 worth of damage to my home after extremists broke a window and inserted a garden hose, flooding the interior. Later, in a public statement addressed to me, the extremists said they had been torn between flooding my house or setting it afire. Maybe I should feel lucky.

Having come to the United States as the child of Holocaust survivors who had lost almost everything, I appreciate that perhaps "only in America" could I have fulfilled my dream of becoming a biomedical scientist, supported in doing research to reduce human suffering. But it is difficult for me to understand why the same country that was founded on the idea of freedom for all gives rise to an organization like the Animal Liberation Front, a shadowy group identified by the FBI as a domestic terrorism threat, which threatens the safety of researchers engaged in animal studies that are crucial to moving medicine forward.

I have devoted my career to understanding how nicotine, methamphetamine and other drugs can hijack brain chemistry and leave the affected individual at the mercy of his or her addiction. My personal connection to addiction is rooted in the untimely death of my father, who died of complications of nicotine dependence. My work on the neurobiology of addiction has spanned three decades of my life -- most of this time as a senior scientist at the National Institutes of Health. To me, nothing could be more important than solving the mysteries of addiction and learning how we can restore a person's control over his or her own life. Addiction robs young people of their futures, destroys families and places a tremendous burden on society.

Animal studies allow us to test potential treatments without confounding factors, such as prior drug use and other experiences that complicate human studies. Even more important, they allow us to test possibly life-saving treatments before they are considered safe to test in humans. Our animal studies address the effects of chronic drug use on brain functions, such as decision-making and self-control, that are impaired in human addicts. We are also testing potential treatments, and all of our studies comply with federal laws designed to ensure humane care.

While monkeys receive drugs in the laboratory, they do not become "addicted" in the same sense that humans become addicted. Still, we are able to see how changes in brain chemistry alter the way the brain works -- knowledge that is vital to the design of effective medications.

My colleagues and I place a huge value on the welfare of our research subjects. We constantly strive to minimize the risk to them; however, a certain amount of risk is necessary to provide us with the information we need in a rigorously scientific manner. Since the incident at my house, our research has gotten a lot of attention. Some anti-smoking groups have raised questions about the fact that our work was funded by Philip Morris USA. Is it moral to allow the tobacco industry to fund research on addiction? My view is that the problem of tobacco dependence is enormous, and the resources available for research on the problem are limited. It would, therefore, be immoral to decline an opportunity to increase our knowledge about addiction and develop new treatments for quitting smoking, especially when teens are involved. Few people are untouched by the scourge of addiction in their friends or family. It is through work like ours that the understanding of addiction expands and gives rise to hope that we can help people like my father live longer, healthier lives.

Thousands of other scientists use laboratory animals in other research, giving hope to those afflicted with a wide variety of ailments. Already, one scientist at UCLA has announced that he will not pursue potentially important studies involving how the brain receives information from the retina, for fear of the violence that animal rights radicals might visit on his family. We must not allow these extremists to stop important research that advances the human condition.

Edythe London is a professor of psychiatry and bio-behavioral sciences and of molecular and medical pharmacology at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA.
Now I am sure that the over represented majority of people who support animal rights do not support acts of terrorism, but my question is one about your integrity. I'm very concerned with integrity, and every time I see somebody supporting a cause that I support in a manner I disagree with (such as a guy at work chaining himself under a log truck in the middle of peak hour traffic), I make a point of expressing my opinion on it, because it's obvious that such actions do the cause more harm than good, and because I want my cause to succeed because I think it's right, and I think if everybody were unbiasedly educated on the issue they'd agree with me, and if they didn't, I'd accept that it's not clear cut. If I won my campaigns on causes by tricks and manipulation, or scaring people into agreeing with me, I would feel ashamed of my actions.

Like with fundamentalist religion, animal rights activists seem to be completely inactive in taking any action to oppose these kinds of violence acts. It's all very well to put out generic press releases condemning violence, but that obviously achieves nothing. Why aren't you confronting these people, campaigning against them, and actually doing something about it?

I think my analogy with religious fundamentalists is pretty good, as I see animal rights activism as another example of decisions made based on dogma and emotions, instead of evidence and reason, and both are threatening important scientific research, which has the potential to have much more significant effects on the welfare of humans, animals and the planet, then the lives any individuals.
User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy »

The ALF letter to Professor Edythe London describes them better than I could;
Animal Liberation Front wrote: Edythe London, your job as administrator of the UCLA center that addicts primates to methamphetamines is dispicable. You appear to make all of the sick perverted vivisectors who addict primates to meth possible. Have you ever even witnessed the innocent monkeys that your mad scientists have addicted to methamphetamines as they convulse throughtout excrutiating withdrawl symptoms?

You may have the privilege of coordinating all of this pain and suffering from a slight distance, but as people who act out of conscience we will not allow you to simply lurk in the shawdows of UCLA's labs of torture.

You are now in the spotlight of justice. Your address at [address removed] in Beverly Hills is now publicized for all to see. Until we see the end of primate vivisection at UCLA we will remind you of our presence. Push them to stop Edythe or we keep pushing. We never back down. We always win.

Here's how we get started. We found your million dollar house in Beverly Hills on the windy night of Saturday October 20, we discovered you weren't home so we snuck around to your backyard. First we effectively clogged the intake drain of your pool pump. It probably ran dry for a couple of hours and burned itself out. If it didn't happen, wait for it. It will. Next we smashed a window and inserted your garden hose, turned on to full blast of course. Bet you were surprized when you came home. Edythe do you have flood insurance?

One more thing Edythe, water was our second choice, fire was our first. We compromised because we in the ALF don't risk harming animals human and non human and we don't risk starting brush fires.It would have been just as easy to burn your house down Edythe. As you slosh around your flooded house consider yourself fortunate this time.

We will not stop until UCLA discontinues its primate vivisection programe.

We are the ALF
User avatar
C-Fan
Rekordy Polski
Posts: 11366
Joined: 23 Jan 2003 23:51
Location: Denver
Contact:

Post by C-Fan »

The problem with terrorism, is that it often works.

I also agree that there are few things worse than seeing people use questionable methods to promote a cause that you believe in. The question for me is; what can we do about it? I suppose education and refusing them media attention are starts, but ultimately terrorism in the name of the environment/animals/etc. is often just as hard to stop as any other kind of terrorism.
User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy »

But I think in all the cases of terrorism I can think of, the people doing the most to oppose the terrorist acts are the ones opposed to the cause. The countries invading Iraq and Afghanistan are not Muslim countries. The people who attack the ALF and PETA are not animal rights activists. The opponents of the IRA were not Irish nationalists.

If a cause is going to have credibility, it needs to stand up as strongly as it can to those using the cause to commit immoral actions.


(I know Iraq and Afghanistan are not the best examples of fighting terrorism, but even if you look domestically, it's certainly not Muslim groups in Australia that are attacking and ostracising Muslim fundamentalists who claim that terrorism is in anyway justifiable).
dyalander
Atomsmashasaurus Dex
Posts: 980
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 22:25
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Post by dyalander »

(I know Iraq and Afghanistan are not the best examples of fighting terrorism, but even if you look domestically, it's certainly not Muslim groups in Australia that are attacking and ostracising Muslim fundamentalists who claim that terrorism is in anyway justifiable).
This sounds like a generalisation to me - I'm sure if you looked you would find a number of Australian muslim organisations who have and do repeatedly speak and act out against fundamentalists. Leave alone the number of muslim individuals that speak and act out against fundamentalism in various ways in thier daily lives.
The opponents of the IRA were not Irish nationalists.
Similiarly I'd dispute this statement as there are and were many Irish nationalists who opposed the IRA, which is and was just one of the many complications to the situation in Ireland.
Who wears short shorts?
Dylan Govender.
User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy »

Of course it\'s a generalisation. It\'s impossible to talk about large groups of people without generalising. Did you want me to give you a report on what every Muslim in Australia did?

The response from the official leader of Islam in Australia was to suggest that that the 9/11 attacks were brought on the US by themselves, and while most public Islamic organisations state that they oppose violence, what are they doing to oppose it? Why did the Muslim community not take any action against their leader, who compared women with meat, and said that they brought rapes upon themselves (hilariously he later clarified this statement, saying he was talking about Canadian women, not Australian women). Why was he allowed to continue leading the Muslim community in Australia?

The main voices of Islam in Australia are not doing anything in the power to stamp out fundamentalist violence at all. They are doing very little, and if you look at the Islamic leaders around the world, the picture is far worse than Australia as well.

When Christopher Hitchens (\"new atheist\") came out arguing about how important the war in Iraq was recently, the criticism of his comments from other \"new atheists\" was immediate and profound. It\'s clear that he holds that opinion in a minority.

On the other hand, studies show that the majority of Muslims in the UK (and there\'s no reason to think the same trend doesn\'t extend else where) believe that Salman Rushdie should be put to death for giving up his Islamic beliefs.

Where is the outrage from the Muslim community about the support for his murder, or the outrage from the Muslim community about the murder of Theo van Gogh for making a documentary about the millions of women suffering under Islam?
User avatar
Zac Miley
Post Master General
Posts: 5953
Joined: 04 Jun 2006 12:11
Location: Kansas City, MO
Contact:

Post by Zac Miley »

Jeremy is using a proxy!!!!!!

Don't get caught!
Jay (8:06:01 PM): Bu-bu-buu-buug--Looks up, and the feeling goes away like a sneeze-bu-buuuh-BULLLSHITTT
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
User avatar
Blue_turnip
Egyptian Footgod
Posts: 1239
Joined: 29 Nov 2004 03:55
Location: Melbourne

Post by Blue_turnip »

Isilwar wrote:Jeremy is using a proxy!!!!!!

Don't get caught!
roflmao.
Oliver Adams
dyalander
Atomsmashasaurus Dex
Posts: 980
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 22:25
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Post by dyalander »

Perhaps I should have said "too great a generalisation" - your response itself shows that there are far more specific things at play here.
Who wears short shorts?
Dylan Govender.
User avatar
HighDemonslayer
Egyptian Footgod
Posts: 1070
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
Location: Arizona

Post by HighDemonslayer »

I'm very concerned with integrity, and every time I see somebody supporting a cause that I support in a manner I disagree with (such as a guy at work chaining himself under a log truck in the middle of peak hour traffic), I make a point of expressing my opinion on it, because it's obvious that such actions do the cause more harm than good, and because I want my cause to succeed because I think it's right,(...) I'd accept that it's not clear cut. If I won my campaigns on causes by tricks and manipulation, or scaring people into agreeing with me, I would feel ashamed of my actions.
Jeremy brings up a good point with the opening post. The types of annoying activism, and dishonest manipulation techniques pollute/and dillute the ideas he supports.


What more can you do but issue a standard, "We condemn those actions...blah..blah...blah." ???

What are you going to do, purge your whole particular movement of lunatics, just because of a small segment of your coalition??


In general, the more you issue an apology , the more the media smells weakness and guilt.


Maybe the media will associate Jeremy with the rabid-chained-under-the-log-truck-guy, maybe they wont.

How many promote animal rights as a vehicle for other political movements??

How much manipulation, fear, and deception do they use? (true for many movements)



I notice , in Western media, that some lunatics are ALWAYS linked to certain movements.

Whenever a political event or protest occurs, the media springs to action, seeking the most racist individuals , to be the face of the movement.

If one questionable organization is present, then the whole lot are blanket Nazi's.

Even staging fake racism or homophobia is within the bounds of American media.


In summary:

Media exposure, or the medias' concealment of lunatics, should be the primary concern, not the lunatics themselves. Media doesn't want news of the animal-rights-lunatic to persist, so they will move onto something else soon.


Although it may make you sick, think of the intimidation and fear, those violent thugs may instill in your opposition. That fear can spill over and influence other people, resulting in future successes.

Apologizing admits guilt and complicity. Issue a vague press release and be done with it. Future badgering about the lack of forcefulness of your apology will only be done if your group is a right-leaning group. Who is going to care about an apology for an incident the media covered-up a year or two from now?

The public , in general, are ignorant and easily swayed. The truth is secondary, if successful propaganda techniques can work. Apologies of your opposition (for any reason) should be painted as admission of guilt.


-------------------
Where is the outrage from the Muslim community about the support for his murder, or the outrage from the Muslim community about the murder of Theo van Gogh for making a documentary about the millions of women suffering under Islam?
This group is different then other "mainstreams dis-associating from radicals".

1. Radicals get endless millions in oil-money funding, supported by entrenched Mid-East power structures. Their money funds a growing number of schools worldwide, promoting their ideas to many thousands of dis-affected youth.

2. Nothing stops a truckload of radicals with AK's and machetes, from showing up at the house of the guy who "stands up and refutes the radicals."

3. Even in America, the authorities cannot protect you from this type of opponent. They can only clean up the butchered bodies of the big -mouth and his family. The killers will probably get away. American authorities cannot solve crimes or protect the weak in growing ethnic enclaves.

4. The mainstream have nothing to gain, and everything to lose by condemning the most violent, and bloodthirsty.
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?


-----------------------------------
-nathan
User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy »

Nathan you realise that you are one of these radicals that you talk about? Although you may doubt it, you definitely hold views to the far right, and no mainstream party would want to associate itself with you.
BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22

Post by BainbridgeShred »

Who the fuck wants to be associated with a mainstream party? Don't make me puke.
Image
User avatar
Texta
Shredaholic
Posts: 157
Joined: 31 Jan 2003 18:38
Location: in my couch fort

Post by Texta »

BainbridgeShred wrote:Who the fuck wants to be associated with a mainstream party? Don't make me puke.
I. Just. Want. To. Fit. In.
BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22

Post by BainbridgeShred »

DIAMONDS.ARE.FOREVER
Image
User avatar
HighDemonslayer
Egyptian Footgod
Posts: 1070
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
Location: Arizona

Post by HighDemonslayer »

Jeremy wrote:
Nathan you realise that you are one of these radicals that you talk about? Although you may doubt it, you definitely hold views to the far right, and no mainstream party would want to associate itself with you.

Really? Do you mean like the guy chaining himself to the truck?

I don't drive a truck of gunman around town to shoot critics.

In fact, if Muslim or Christian religious police were driving around town killing critics and gays, i would risk my own life to wipe out that squad.




I have Radical ideas perhaps. Common sense is a radical concept, true.

Far right views? Yeah, but I hold some far left/libertarian views also.

Left-Right wings are getting harder to define.

Prez. Bush, for example, has advanced leftist ideas and entrenched their positions light years ahead of whatever Prez. Clinton ever achieved.

Nearly every candidate, both sides, want to invade Iran.


I hate both the mainstream parties. They had better not try to associate with me.

They are both dedicated to dissolving the nation into a cesspool, dilluting our votes and our currency into worthlessness......and enriching themselves as they sell off our roads, factories, and infrastructure....... just like the Soviet Union. Don't forget the endless entangling, loser treaties they like to sign onto.

We are truly leaderless. Integrity is lacking.



note: I read about how Ron Paul's presidential betting odds keep going up, worldwide.

-n
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?


-----------------------------------
-nathan
BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22

Post by BainbridgeShred »

Nearly every candidate, both sides, want to invade Iran.
Not really.
Image
Post Reply