Songwriting, but for guitar

[gMoney]

Ok, so I can play guitar I'd say pretty decently now, and I can play a lot of other peoples' songs, but I've tried about a million times to write my own song and nothing is coming to me. My lyrical writing is ok, I'd say, it probably needs some work, but I just can't come up with anything original or good on the guitar. Everything sounds like crap. Is there some kind of secret to writing parts for guitar that everyone knows about but me? Do I need to learn like 8 million more chords or something?

[dp]

1. Learn guitar theory.

2. Sit down with a friend who plays, both get acoustic guitars, and just hang out and chill in a basement for 4-5 hours.

That's how I've come up with all the little diddies I've made up. I think some of them, if refined, could really become decent songs too.

[Bringerofpie]

Music theory is definitely important, but the most important thing I just learned:

When you talk, do you consciously think about what words you're going to use? Odds are, you decide what you want to say and say it without much (if any) conscious thought.

Do the same on guitar. I guarantee you'll sound awful at first. Practice a fucking lot. Just sit by yourself or with friends and improv for hours. Then you get coherent stuff that you can put lyrics to (if you're not retarded at lyric writing like I am).

[gMoney]

Thanks guys, that really helps. I like your analogy, Joe.

[brinard]

didnt all of you just start playing guitar recently?

i think matt cross has the most song writing expierence on fizz, id wait for him to chime in, or just not worry about being the one who writes the songs.

[habitat]

Personally, I feel like the most simplest songs sound the best. I always over complicate the thought process of creating a song. I play keyboard myself, but the it's basically the same thing as with a guitar. Learn some harmony theory. Explore different chord voices. Brush up on some new scales/modes. Freestyle/fuck with a song you already know how to play.

I'm in no way shape or form an expert song writer. But letting shit flow from the gut is always fun and also can lead to some interesting ideas. Just jam some basics and go from there.

Good luck! music is awesome!

[Bringerofpie]

didnt all of you just start playing guitar recently?

i think matt cross has the most song writing expierence on fizz, id wait for him to chime in, or just not worry about being the one who writes the songs.

I started playing a few years ago, I just had a crappy guitar.

[PoisonTaffy]

Complete originality shouldn't be a huge concern to you. Being influenced by other musicians or even specific pieces is perfectly acceptable, to some degree. Listening to music in the lines of what you want to make before writing is something that usually helps me going. Borrowing a rhythm you like and changing the chord progression, or borrowing a progression and changing the rhythm, these are both good and acceptable ways to jump start creativity and to understand what good songs are build out of.
I used to compose on the computer, and for my first few tracks I just went and ripped the instruments used on my favorite tracks to get a decent sound going.

I sometimes try to imagine how a really good song would sound like, or what would it feel to play a really good song on stage, and I'll start getting ideas for how to make it happen.

As for music theory, I personally feel that while it does provide tools to understand what makes music work, when I tried to rely on it to write music or complete gaps in my music it usually turned out pretty standard and uninteresting. Maybe I just sucked at applying theory, but theory is by no means a magic wand for making great instant songs. I think mastering the guitar is more important.

[Bringerofpie]

It's nearly impossible to master an instrument without at least some handle on theory.

[gMoney]

Well, I do play other instruments (trumpet and now piano) so I already know a lot of music theory. I think one of my main problems is this:

Personally, I feel like the most simplest songs sound the best. I always over complicate the thought process of creating a song.

And complete originality isn't my concern, I just want something that sounds good, with it still being my own. To some point I strive for originality, but that can come from other places than guitar playing.

[dp]

I've been playing for like 5-6 years on and off and have some fun little things I've made up that I jam to with friends.

[CautionFragile]

You wanna know the ultimate tip on writting music? (I've given a few workshops on this subject)

I just can't come up with anything original or good on the guitar. Everything sounds like crap

Play the notes that sound good to you, make them into an exercise, repeat, and a song will surface. People think too much instead of listening to what they are doing.

[Bringerofpie]

Someone should compile a bunch of the best tips for writing lyrics and music.

[mc]

hey,

neither mastery of lyric writing, not mastery of your chosen instruments are prerequisites for being a songwriter. they're not even a prereq for being a good songwriter.

writing a good song is about crystallizing a moment or emotion, or a combination of both (as in, the emotions created by and / or associated with a moment), and communicating that to someone else. In other words, your goal should be to take something inside your head and / or heart, and making a piece of art that makes it possible to make someone else feel what you felt.

the most important thing for writing a good song is having fuel for the fire inside you.

what that means is that you need to go out and do things that you care about, or that shake you emotionally or mentally. Sometimes, you can't (or don't) do that intentionally. The trick is to acknowledge the moment when emotions and thoughts are stirred up inside you, and to write words for that moment. they don't have to rhyme. there are no rules. just write write write about the associated emotions and thoughts you have about an experience. Then, from within that, you will see a few catch words or phrases that jump out at you, and you pick those for part of a verse or a refrain. at that point, you can start worrying about things like rhyming and rhyme patterns, phonetics, etc etc etc.

BUT BEFORE YOU GET TOO FAR INTO THAT:

you should also have something going on on the guitar. get yourself in a mental state where you are relaxed and feeling like you definitely want to play guitar. maybe warm up with a few of your favorite cover songs. Then, find a groove. anything. find some chords you like. find one chord you like. find a bass line you like. Unless you're pretty good at understanding chord changes, I wouldn't start with a guitar melody.

so, take those chords or bass line, and find a groove so you can repeat it over and over, and then, fearlessly, start humming along or whatever you want, and find a melody that works over it.

so, then you're at a point where you have the "seed" of your lyrics, and the "seed" of your music. then, you put the seeds together, and let them grow as one. as you develop one, you develop the other. What I mean by that is, you start to put the words with the music. then, you find yourself at a point where you want to do something a little different with the music to make a bridge or a chorus, so you also take the lyrics in a slightly different direction.

Then, once you've got a few different parts put together, you look at the overall structure of what you're doing, and take into consideration things like catchiness, instrumental solos, total length of the piece, frequency of refrains, etc etc etc.

here's the most important thing to remember. YOU ARE MOST LIKELY GOING TO WRITE REALLY BAD SONGS FOR A WHILE. It's just like footbag. you have to fight through sucking at it to get to a point where you're decent and you feel good about it. Just write. try. write those songs, do your best, and move on to the next one.

let me know if you want me to ruminate on this any more. preferably with specific questions.

[mc]

i just went back and read your original question, and I guess I didn't really answer it with enough focus.

if you're having trouble with the guitar parts, there are two things you could consider.

1. Start with simplicity. Write a few songs with VERY simple chord changes. I've been writing songs for about 7 years or so now (never very prolifically) and I still write very simple stuff. Simplicity can be very effect, and really speaks to a lot of people, so don't be afraid of playing without burning up the fretboard with some revolutionary technique. I bet a lot of your favorite songs are incredibly simple.

2. Find a guitar player whose style you really love, and learn as many of their songs as you can. You won't end up sounding exactly like them, but you'll pick up a few of those techniques that you like, and they'll make their way into your style. if you find yourself sounding too much like someone else, pick a different artist you like and learn a bunch of their stuff, and then you'll have a mixture of techniques, plus whatever you already knew.

you could also write a blues song. that's pretty much laid out for you. the lyrics go AAB.

As in

A: Goin to Kansas City, Kansas City, here I come
A: Goin to Kansas City, Kansas City, here I come
B: They got some crazy little women there, and I'm gonna get me one

that would probably be a really good excercise for fitting lyrics with a cool guitar groove. It's definitely a great starting point, or ending point, or any point in between, for that matter.

[Bringerofpie]

Blues songs are also easy from an instrumental perspective. 12 bar blues, using the last bar and half as a turnaround? Simple, pure, genius.

[gMoney]

Thanks Matt, both posts really helped.

[HG]

I recommend watching this movie before you get too far into learning to write good music and lyrics.

[Zeb Jackson]

both get acoustic guitars

i disagree a lot with that, ive been playing for almost 6 years now, and i learned most of what i know on an electric. the only difference between an acoustic and an ecectric is sound. They both have the same chords, and you play them the same way.

2 cents

[habitat]

"We go to the laundromat to visit our mutual friend, pass it around and around again."

That's fucking perfect btw.