footbag.org forum

pillar · Post by **pillar** » 25 Sep 2003 04:07

Ken, you have a point there. Steve and Allan have been writing a lot. But I think it is mainly because they want the forum to get going. Since there isn't that many people yet they probably feel like they should try and help the situation. I am hoping that when more and more people start using .org:s forums those two will have less and less impact (no offense Steve and Allan).

Juha

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 25 Sep 2003 04:09

I'd say, give the footbag.org forum a little time to evolve.
It's still fresh and new, and not many people are posting.
True, Allan and Steve do post a lot, but I think that's mainly
because there's not too much going on there and they want
to get things rollin'..
Furthermore, because of the seriousness there many other pro's raise their voice, which can, as time goes by, get VERY interesting and useful.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 25 Sep 2003 04:44

Damn Ken.. No holds barred. I love it. I thought I was going to get chewed out for my comparatively mild post. Seriously though.. I love it.

The main problem with the "twin tower's" current "post a lot" method is that it squashes lots of good view points. Everyone concedes to Allan and Steve regardless of what they are really saying. Either that, or Steve just won't give up until the conversation is his.

Also, the whole Steve thing about "get off your ass and help" etc. is ironic. Because he can't resist jumping in with an answer on everything.. therefore people will ask him. Duh. This only makes sense. If he'd relax for awhile people would start to be more crafty in finding answers.

Final note.. There seems to be a combative feel (mainly from Steve.. oh, and from Sam a little.. but he's just cracking me up really) on .org. So much quieter and friendlier here.

I love you guys. sniff. sniff.

mc · Post by mc » 25 Sep 2003 12:59

posted as a new topic on the footbag.org forum... I just want it here for historical purposes in case someone over there silences it...

steve said, in Advanced Freestyle -> Frigidosis

Look, when it comes to old-skool sets like "zoom" and a move I invented ("frigidosis"), please defer to my ancient knowledge and don't argue with me.

why does anyone have to defer to anyone at all? this didn't look like an argument, just people expressing slightly differing thoughts. this is a DISCUSSION forum, and just because you provide the appropriate answer to everything doesn't mean everyone else has to shut up. Even after you say "It is so", and you're correct, that doesn't mean it's wrong for someone to say, "Oh, I thought..." or "Huh, someone once told me...", and frankly, would you really want that to be the case? I don't think you would, but it's starting to seem that way. And that's sad. Because having multiple opinion and voices regarding one idea is what these forums are all about. Your answers have a combined sense of finality and ultimate authority to the point that it stifles further discussion, and that hurts the forum.

steve, I like it better on the other forums where you don't feel like it's your turf. The chance that anyone else posting on this forum has as much knowledge regarding footbag history, technicality, culture, and practice as you do, is next to nil. But I would hope that you wouldn't feel that every time someone poses a question or situation to which you feel you have a good resolution, that you would seek to immediately resolve their question or situation, and have them speak no more.

if you don't want people asking you questions constantly, you're going to have to stop setting yourself up as the ONLY authority in the footbag world.

Sorry if you guys think this message is directed a little personally... However, I feel that this kind of discussion is related to an air being created around this forum by one of it's moderators, and that relates to us all.

and also

Steve Speaks!! Thank you ohh engineer and helper of many footbag events... I am not worthy...

I didn't see anyone making any formal complaints about that personally directed reply, and it's been there for a good 36 hours now.

So, just some thoughts to consider, people. there's no way I'm the only one who feels like this.

Moderate, don't dominate.

Matthew Cross
Rochester Footbag Association

Chris Holden · Post by **Chris Holden** » 25 Sep 2003 13:48

The funniest thing, thus far to me, is the Steve's avatar, when was that pic
taken? Honestly, age 4.

Good post Ken, nailed it.

webmaster · Post by **webmaster** » 25 Sep 2003 19:50

You guys are such jerks. Give me a break. Stop being so unfair to me. I am just posting like I would in this forum if I wanted to post to this forum.

Where's the respect for all my hard work?

I'm not participating in the discussions on footbag.org as a "moderator". I'm participating as myself, which I would do here if only everyone used their real names.

Get over it, move on with your lives, and stop attacking people who work hard for you.

These personal attacks are just insane. I won't respond again to this thread.

Steve

mattkain · Post by **mattkain** » 25 Sep 2003 20:09

Steve,

Ahem, good try but .. nah. Not constructive after all. Why are you so bent out of shape? One word - CRITICISM. Duh! That's the whole fucking point of this thread, dumbass. Seems like you really have little knowledge about how forums work, don't you? Why do you portray yourself as such an asshole on these forums?

Note: most of the above is ACTUALLY stuff that Steve wrote on the .org forum (yup, look it up - those are mostly Steve G. quotes). I was just borrowing some of the insightful commentary that the self-proclaimed hardest-working-man-in-footbag has thoughtfully spread throughout the footbag community.

Matt Kain

P.S. It's totally cool that you know who invented Mechanosis, but you're still a prick.

Post by **Allan** » 25 Sep 2003 20:48

I love you guys.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 25 Sep 2003 20:56

mattkain wrote:Steve,
the self-proclaimed hardest-working-man-in-footbag .

*shudder*

I just imagined Steve wearing one of those glittery, skin-tight jumpsuits that James Brown wore during the 70s.

While I feel bad Steve took offense to what was obviously some good-natured ribbing on my part, he hasn`t addressed the main criticisms people are making of footbag.org/forum.

Nobody is doubting or disrespecting Steve`s hard work on the part of footbag. People are just observing that the discussion at .org/forum is currently being dominated by Steve and Allan (which is verifiable by post count), and that the authoritative tone of their responses is stifling to discussion (not numerically verifiable, but a legitimate concern IMO).

Steve, my last post was mostly meant to sum up what I saw as the current pluses and minuses of footbag.org/forum. The bit at the end was just me poking a little fun at you, while also illustrating the point that many topics on .org/forum indeed look like:

poster
Steve
poster#2
Steve
poster
Steve again
poster
Steve
Allan
Steve
Allan
Steve
Allan
poster
Steve

...which is to an extent an exaggeration, but not by much. Also verifiable by simply glancing at .org/forums.

So Steve, please don`t take my post personally, and also please consider the views expressed in this thread (regarding your tone on .org) as legitimate feedback regarding the feel of the new forums, and not as `insane personal attacks.`

Billy Hladik · Post by **Billy Hladik** » 26 Sep 2003 04:47

This may seem to not relate to previous posts, but it's a post related to the topic of this thread.

I'm not gonna critisize steve or allan, I don't really go on the .org list anyway...

The only forums I've been on are Flipsider and Modified.

I was a big flipsider fan, and I was there from the beginning.
I loved it in the beginning but then flipsider degressed into something I just wasn't interested in reading. I discovered Modified from flipsider, but I didn't want to make the transition (as to spread myself thin), I was already on flipsider (even though I started not enjoying it). Finally the flipsider site got all screwy so I decided to regularly read Modified.

In my opinion modified is the better forum of the two. There is more content here, and more pros posting. Thats whats important to me.
Modified looks like its here to stay, and so am I.

Peace.

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 26 Sep 2003 04:59

webmaster wrote:You guys are such jerks.

...then

These personal attacks are just insane.
Steve

Come on, Steve, chill out. There were no personal attacks. It just
seems you can't handle criticism very well. I'm sure everybody respects
and loves you for everything you have done for the sport and the
community. But this has nothing to do with it. Personal attacks?
Come on. You're calling us jerks, assholes, dumbasses, and then you
tell us "how insane these personal attacks" are?? Chill out, man.
We don't want to do you no harm.

Oh, and let's not turn this thread into a flipsider-style flame-war.

Peace,

bjoern

Chris Holden · Post by **Chris Holden** » 26 Sep 2003 07:36

LOL, man this is a great thread!

There is nothing more gratifying that reading someone get all bend out of shape in an online forum.

It's all too funny, and Allan is the best. I wonder if I'm as tall as him.

To below post: this is a rant thread.

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 26 Sep 2003 08:08

So you're all complaining about flame wars at the Flipsider forum, huh? What do you call this??

Some community this is...

dominic · Post by **dominic** » 26 Sep 2003 08:52

Ever notice that nearly every time Ellis posts on any forum
he sounds bitter or pissed off?

Billy Hladik · Post by **Billy Hladik** » 26 Sep 2003 09:22

dominic, I'm sorry to say your preception of ellis is incorrect, atleast on modified.

In light of your comment, I didn't a quick review of all of Ellis' posts on modified.

Simply, you are wrong.

See for yourself (Click profile, view all posts)

peace.

EDIT:
After seeing that you, dominic, are the latest member to join modified at the time of my posting, I think you are just continuing with the ranting with no base for your comment, way to be.

oZonE-juNkie · Post by **oZonE-juNkie** » 26 Sep 2003 10:04

Billy Hladik wrote: EDIT:
After seeing that you, dominic, are the latest member to join modified at the time of my posting, I think you are just continuing with the ranting with no base for your comment, way to be.

And yee with 9 posts has all the basis in the world for commenting? Let's not judge based on when someone joined, or post numbers. I could have been reading modified for 6 months before joining/posting, right? I read/post on a skydiving forum, and refuse to include details in my profile (jump numbers/canopy size/etc.) because I hate when people pass judgement on the few meaningless things they can use to categorize someone's skill-level. Let's just play nice, shall we?

ThomASS · Post by **ThomASS** » 26 Sep 2003 10:31

Uh.....I like all three of the forums, they're all helping the sport grow. Thats all I am saying

Billy Hladik · Post by **Billy Hladik** » 26 Sep 2003 10:59

Ozone, The fact that dominic was the latest member was just an additional point, and didn't not serve as the basis of my arguement.

And yee with 9 posts has all the basis in the world for commenting? Let's not judge based on when someone joined, or post numbers

Those two sentences are contradictory. You begin by passing implied judgement on me, and then in the following line, proceed to say that your means for judging me shouldn't be followed. okay boss.

If dominic with zero posts has 'all the basis in the world for' critizing Eli.
Then I with nine posts or whatever have all the basis to reply.
but as you said, we should disregard that.

Look, He spoke his mind, and so did I.

Sure he could have been reading Modified since it was created, but that still doesn't account for the frivolousness of his statement.

I don't want this to sound harsh or what not, but its my opinion...
Peace.

Post by **Allan** » 26 Sep 2003 11:00

Kevin Ragamey wrote: Also, I found it interesting that given this post by Allan, that he would turn around and create a forum of his own with Steve.

Why exactly is it "interesting" Kevin? Did you read it? Virtually every issue I addressed as a "problem" with these forums has been magically cured by footbag.org/forum - and many of the issues that aren't yet addressed have fixes on the way. I still don't really think these forums are the way to go from a techinical standpoint, but whatever, they do cure many techinical issues at the same time.

I find it interesting that people keep posting and talking about Steve and/or I as if we don't read this shit. I mean, it sorta like being in the same room with someone and saying "isn't so and so a jerk?" when they're standing right next to you. It would be funny, but you mean it, so really, all you accomplish (instead of trying to be "constructive") is to hurt that person's feelings. "good natured ribbing" riiiight.

Personally, I don't care. I do love you guys whatever you say about me and/or Steve and the real forum. Yes, I find some of the posts in this thread a little distressing, but I'm not loosing any sleep over it. I just think y'all should do what you're telling Steve (and me) to do and lighten up a little. Stop reading so much into other people's post's and passing judgement on them for them. Refrain from trying to tell people how to be. Just let it go. I'm sure trying harder these days to follow my own advice there.

I've got to go back to work now, but I want to leave you with something that might make you think. I've heard lots of different statements of wisdom, but only a few of them really stick out and persist across my experiences. Ironically, I do not know who said either of these things. I would be grateful to anyone who could put me in the know.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spirits having a human experience." - ??

and this isn't so much a direct quote, but it's a concept of sorts (there's probably some fancy term for it... a psychological observation maybe):

Look at the people in your life that you don't like or even hate and examine your feelings as to why you don't like or hate them. The concept is that what you don't like or hate about that person is actually something that you don't like or hate about yourself.

Anyhow, umm, yeah. Out like shout. Word up, peace out, no hard feelings, it's all good, we're all good, have a nice day

oZonE-juNkie · Post by **oZonE-juNkie** » 26 Sep 2003 11:03

Billy Hladik wrote:Ozone, The fact that dominic was the latest member was just an additional point, and didn't not serve as the basis of my arguement.

And yee with 9 posts has all the basis in the world for commenting? Let's not judge based on when someone joined, or post numbers
Those two sentences are contradictory. You begin by passing implied judgement on me, and then in the following line, proceed to say that your means for judging me shouldn't be followed. okay boss.

That was my point of making that statement. You didn't like it, did you? I wasn't passing judgement on you. Merely showing you that I (or others) by your logic, could/might. And I/they shouldn't. Believe me, I choose my words carefully.

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