Ethics of teaching young kids religion

Post by **Zac Miley** » 31 Jul 2008 12:05

What does everybody think about parents who teach their children (specifically toddlers, or kids between the ages of 3-7 or so) about religion?

I've heard my stepmom pulling the god excuse out on my baby sister, and it just infuriates me. What does everybody else think?

LEGOMAN · Post by **LEGOMAN** » 31 Jul 2008 12:51

you have a babysitter? FUCKING LOL

Jokse · Post by **Jokse** » 31 Jul 2008 13:04

LEGOMAN wrote:you have a babysitter? FUCKING LOL

Omg..

mc · Post by mc » 31 Jul 2008 13:41

baby SISTER... damn, if only your brain wasn't made of legos...

Zac, I think it's wrong. It infuriates me too. I'm about to go to thursday in the square in Buffalo where street preachers are all over, and they have their kids going up to people and giving schpiels... and the kids are just as righteous as mom and dad

mikep · Post by **mikep** » 31 Jul 2008 13:44

You end up teaching your kids what you believe by example, even if you are not consciously doing it. I assume your stepmom is down with JC?

Post by **Zac Miley** » 31 Jul 2008 14:04

Thanks for the replies. Especially you, Kyle.

That's ridiculous, Matt. Children as street evangelists?

It's obvious that parents will set an example for a child, but don't you think it should be a conscious (I may have spelled that wrong..) decision to let your kids choose their own way? I, for one, while I may be atheist, will not force atheism upon my kids.

Taking kids to church (when the parents have a choice not to) and giving valid question an answer such as "god made it that way" is, in my opinion, bad parenting.

pips · Post by **pips** » 31 Jul 2008 14:16

This is something that has been on my mind lately as I now have a young daughter. I am not so religious anymore, and my mom has gotten more religious. She tries to put it on me all the time. And she tries to teach Kayleigh it, since I do not. Even though my views have changed, I still like that I was brought up Christian (very moral, I guess) and wonder if me not regularly going to church or teaching her the Bible will bring Kayleigh up differently.

On another note, I think it is funny how these super-religious parents force religion on their kids and think they are perfect angels when they are actually almost the opposite or not so innocent.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 31 Jul 2008 14:18

Isilwar wrote:It's obvious that parents will set an example for a child, but don't you think it should be a conscious decision to let your kids choose their own way?

Well not if they might choose the wrong way.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 31 Jul 2008 14:21

Whoops, I posted too slowly but I want to respond to Chrissy's post.

I was raised without a religion but was taught strong morals. People often teach their children morals through religion, but it doesn't have to be that way. Not taking her to church and teaching her the bible will mean that she doesn't go to church or know the bible. Doing those two things doesn't mean that your child will be any more moral than her neighbor who goes to church religiously (ha

).

Post by **Zac Miley** » 31 Jul 2008 14:28

Well not if they might choose the wrong way.

I meant their own way in regards to religion.

I was raised without a religion but was taught strong morals. People often teach their children morals through religion, but it doesn't have to be that way. Not taking her to church and teaching her the bible will mean that she doesn't go to church or know the bible. Doing those two things doesn't mean that your child will be any more moral than her neighbor who goes to church religiously (ha ).

Agreed.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 31 Jul 2008 15:27

There are definitely weird and disturbing things that parents inflict on their children at an age when the kids aren't capable of understanding what is going on. And that doesn't exclusively apply to religion.

My parents are very religious and they tried to raise me & my brothers to believe the same things as they do. Which is every parent's right. I won't get into it too much but some of the churches were really creepy & being part of this weirdo counterculture probably wasn't the best thing for me.

But I grew up, and I got over it. I guess at a certain age you have to stop blaming your parents for things. Just because someone gets creepily indoctrinated doesn't mean they'll stay that way. If anything, I'd say the more extreme, the more blind and arbitrary the articles of faith, the more likely it is a person will question their religion as they grow up.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 31 Jul 2008 15:32

If you (anyone) want an anti-religion propaganda movie to support your points, watch Jesus Camp. Creepy stuff.

mikep · Post by **mikep** » 31 Jul 2008 15:43

Isilwar wrote: I, for one, while I may be atheist, will not force atheism upon my kids.

But how exactly will you do this? Take them to various churches (that you obviously don't believe in) to let them choose at age 5 or so?

I know where you are coming from- when I decided in college that I didn't want to be a christian I resented having been brainwashed from birth. I didn't want to do the same thing to my kids. Heck, I didn't even want to do the santa, tooth fairy and easter bunny thing (well-intended lies that have a lot in common with christianity IMO). I realized, however, that we would be 'raising' the kids with a belief system (athiest) just because those were the views that we live. I won't mind if the kids decide to take up a religion, but I'll bet they won't even really think about it until high school.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 31 Jul 2008 16:13

mikep wrote:
Isilwar wrote: I, for one, while I may be atheist, will not force atheism upon my kids.
But how exactly will you do this? Take them to various churches (that you obviously don't believe in) to let them choose at age 5 or so?

No. I won't definitively tell them that God doesn't exist, and I won't take them to church. Questions that I don't know the answer to, I'll either say I don't know or research it. Hard to say though.

It's probably really hard not to force your views on your children, but I think it is worth it to try not to.

Nathan:

Interesting point. It's 'risky' (lack of a better word) though. I know plenty of people who grew up with religion forced upon them and are still religious, although usually not as extreme as their parents.

Emily:

I'll check it out. Thanks.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 31 Jul 2008 16:31

I think it's important that everybody have an understanding of religion and of different religions. Religion has obviously had a massive impact on humanity and if you're going to understand society and culture at all, you need to have some understanding of religion.

I also think that parents probably should teach their children what they believe is right and wrong and moral values. As an atheist, I don't believe that religion has any real truth to it, and I certainly don't think children should be taught things that are wrong. I don't think I'd teach my children to be "atheists" directly, but I'd certainly teach them about rational thinking, and ultimately this would probably result in the same outcome.

I think it's pretty inevitable that if you give your children an equal education in all the different main religions of the world (rather than saying one is correct and the other is wrong), and you teach them how to most accurately arrive at a conclusion based on evidence, there's only one outcome they'll reach.

Given that I know this, you could easily argue that I would be making my children atheists, and I think that leads to the point that ultimately if we're going to live in a free society people are going to teach their children what they personally believe to be true. No matter what you personally believe, there are bound to be people teaching their children things that "infuriate" you. Unfortunately I don't think there is any solution to this that doesn't create an even worse situation.

mikep · Post by **mikep** » 31 Jul 2008 17:04

I also have to add that I have a lot of sympathy for born-again folks. The way I was taught growing up is that if you hadn't accepted Jesus as your saviour you would go to hell. This creates an enormous burden for the believer- "knowing" that loved ones are doomed unless they get saved. If that is your belief system you naturally try to get your kids saved as soon as possible, as "fire insurance".

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 31 Jul 2008 18:31

Yeah exactly. It's important to remember that these people are sure that their religion is correct and that they are doing the right thing. The view that their actions are unethical is based on a different perspective.

If you really wanted to address the problem of indoctrinating children with religious views (or any dogmatic view) then you really need to address the root causes - and in this case the root cause in the beliefs the person has or their intentions, but the problem of belief and "faith" overall. You could never stop parents indoctrinating their children with religious beliefs unless you ended the notation that it's ok to believe things without convincing evidence.

Of course when you're talking about a particular psychological trait, you can't just force people to change. The only way progress can be made on this issue is a long and vocal campaign for reason. No force could be used, or legislation; just the slow change in the zeitgeist.

In most Western countries, a lack of religious belief is the only view on religion that is growing horizontally (ie. faster than birth/immigration rates of people with that view). This is almost certainly not a linear progression, but I think it wouldn't be too optimistic to predict that in most Western countries "no religion" will be the majority view by the end of this century.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 31 Jul 2008 19:27

Kids learn a lot worse shit than religion from their parents.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 31 Jul 2008 19:29

For instance, Jeremy's kids might end up perfect Atheist's, but if the line holds then they're going to be conceited pricks as well. All of our shortcomings were our parents shortcomings, and so will they be for our children. I will raise mine in as objective an envrionment as I possibly can.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 31 Jul 2008 19:34

I think pretty much everybody agrees here.

Fancy.