Ethics of teaching young kids religion

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 31 Jul 2008 20:02

BainbridgeShred wrote:For instance, Jeremy's kids might end up perfect Atheist's, but if the line holds then they're going to be conceited pricks as well. All of our shortcomings were our parents shortcomings, and so will they be for our children. I will raise mine in as objective an envrionment as I possibly can.

At least they won't be wiggers...

LEGOMAN · Post by **LEGOMAN** » 31 Jul 2008 21:30

Jeremy wrote:
BainbridgeShred wrote:For instance, Jeremy's kids might end up perfect Atheist's, but if the line holds then they're going to be conceited pricks as well. All of our shortcomings were our parents shortcomings, and so will they be for our children. I will raise mine in as objective an envrionment as I possibly can.
At least they won't be wiggers...

OH SHIT SON

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 01 Aug 2008 00:14

Oh shit burned by a white kid

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 02 Aug 2008 20:14

ha nice.

Pretty much reiterating what Jeremy said but... there's no way you're going to convince a religious person not to indoctrinate their children. As infuriating as it is. And to the 'you're teaching them to be atheist' line... maybe, but as a 'victim' and previous perpetrator of religious indoctrination of kids, it's nowhere near the same thing.

Asmus · Post by **Asmus** » 03 Aug 2008 03:52

I have a half brother and a half sister that are 4 and 7 years old.
Their mom is pretty religious (for danish standards) atleast and they have gone to a christian kindergarden.
I try to teach them that there might be other explanations and things to believe in when my stepmom is not around.
I am absolutely sure that my stepmom will accept it if they will be atheists alter on though (she will probably blame me and my father anyways and not them haha).

Even though my mom and dad are not religious I know the bible better than many of my friends that see themselves as christians. I have a hard time understanding that.

When I get kids I will definitely teach them about the bible.
Since the values presented there are those that we have in our society.
But I will also tell them that there are other ways to look at the world and they should try to find the one that fits them.

jrstubs · Post by **jrstubs** » 03 Aug 2008 10:00

I used to go to religion classes, and then I figured out that god isn't real because the nuns were so reluctant to answer my questions, and then would get mad at me.... like

Who made god?

If in exodus it says thou shalt not kill, why did god kill everybody in genesis except for Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives...

and then....

Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

but, why this?

Gen 8:18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
Gen 8:19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

If you care to look up what a clean and unclean animal is, you can go to leviticus ch. 11. Too long to post , very specific.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 03 Aug 2008 19:36

If in exodus it says thou shalt not kill, why did god kill everybody in genesis except for Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives...

If for the sake of this argument we're going to assume God exists, I think it's also pretty fair to assume that when God decides it's someones time to go, it's probably their time to go.

In regards to the animal thing, you have to remember that Bible translations to any language aren't always accurate (Far from) so I think you're point is semantics. Getting in to it literally though (Not to say that the story was meant to be picked apart like this), you can't assume that every animal on Earth was put on the ark. When it says "every animal" maybe it originally was meant to read "every animal around"

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 03 Aug 2008 23:15

BainbridgeShred wrote:Getting in to it literally though ...you can't assume that every animal on Earth was put on the ark. When it says "every animal" maybe it originally was meant to read "every animal around"

Well obviously.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 04 Aug 2008 11:17

The bible was written over 2000 years ago. How many people do you think would believe in this reality if they read about it 2000 years from now? And how much of it would have been distorted by then?

Believe in what you want. Don't let people force you to believe in Christianity, and don't let people force you into NOT believing it either. Because people will always try to do both.

People are as much imaginary as any religion really. Especially Emily Coolchick lol.

professor · Post by **professor** » 05 Aug 2008 08:05

I think this issue is not really about "religion", it's more about your worldview. Whether you believe in a "religion" or not, you're going to teach your kids directly or indirectly your worldview. Whether your worldview is that God doesn't exist or does, the sky is pink or blue, you're gonna teach your kids the way you think.

There's no way to raise your kids in a completely objective manner, unless of course you completely neglect them or don't raise them at all.

mc · Post by mc » 05 Aug 2008 09:55

I agree wholeheartedly with those who say that indoctrination of children with the big father figure in the sky is wrong.

Unfortunately, I also agree with Ben about the reality of the situation

jrstubs · Post by **jrstubs** » 05 Aug 2008 20:23

Moxie wrote:
BainbridgeShred wrote:Getting in to it literally though ...you can't assume that every animal on Earth was put on the ark. When it says "every animal" maybe it originally was meant to read "every animal around"
Well obviously.

So you are saying that dinosaurs exist.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 05 Aug 2008 22:45

Yes?

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 05 Aug 2008 22:58

A >film< on the subject, Baby Bible Bashers.

jrstubs · Post by **jrstubs** » 06 Aug 2008 07:33

Moxie wrote:A >film< on the subject, Baby Bible Bashers.

lol..

mikep · Post by **mikep** » 06 Aug 2008 08:11

Moxie wrote:I was raised without a religion but was taught strong morals.

Emily, you weren't by any chance raised Unitarian, were you? (my wife was)

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 06 Aug 2008 10:26

I was raised agnostic but became atheist* after "soul-searching" for many years.

*(I before e except after c? Damn you, not always correct mnemonic device.)

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 06 Aug 2008 10:30

There's no way to raise your kids in a completely objective manner, unless of course you completely neglect them or don't raise them at all.

Realistically, putting aside any emotions on the matter, I think their is something to be said for a toned down version of this approach.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 06 Aug 2008 19:10

I don't think that's true. I think you can bring up children telling them all the different things people believe, without focusing on any particular belief, and without telling them whether these beliefs are true or not.

Of course many (if all) religious beliefs are contradicted by objective observational evidence, but the thing about scientific evidence is that you don't need to tell people it's true, you only need to show it to them and they should reach the same conclusion everybody else does (if you've taught them to be objective).

This is why fundamentalist Christians like Ben try to adopt a post modern philosophy and say that everything is "just a world view," because as I said earlier, it's fairly inevitable that such a balanced and objective approach to teaching children about religion will result in atheism, or at least a lack of belief in anything supernatural if you want to play word games.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 06 Aug 2008 19:31

Well, I said that without thinking of religion exclusively, keep in mind. I was more thinking about how sucsessive generations adopt their parents qualities and traits, good or bad; not whether or not the parents consciously decide to teach one creation myth or the other. Thinking about it though, their is no such thing as a truely "objective enviornment" in this world, so aiming to raise you kids objectively is going to be an excersize in failure. Minimize your outright influence on them you can do, but kids can't help but look up to their parents and take their cue's that way, good or bad. Hopefully your pretentious children and my wigger children's redeeming qualities will shine through over whatever negative traits they pick up from us.

Their is more to raising kids of course, though, than making sure that when they read the newspaper they can figure out what is true and what isn't in the wide world. If my children never learn said skill, but end up being happier than I was in my life, I will call it a sucsess.