Worlds 2008 final routines

Anne · Post by **Anne** » 17 Aug 2008 12:56

Just a little request even though 95% of the footbag community are guys... would it be possible to get some footage of the womens' finals too??

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 17 Aug 2008 13:17

Abe wrote:
LOFA wrote: From my understanding he should have won circles competition as well but the judges did not intervene accordingly when he repeatedly passed back to Serge, despite his drops after completing his first tricks.
They actually changed the pass back rules for circles this year. If your second trick is completed, ie good upward motion on the bag, and you drop, no pass back. If you drop your second trick, or first, as in previous cases. You still get the pass back.

Thank you for clarifying that. I got all worked up over it while I was watching. Now I feel a bit silly.

Guydro · Post by **Guydro** » 17 Aug 2008 13:37

Anne wrote:Just a little request even though 95% of the footbag community are guys... would it be possible to get some footage of the womens' finals too??

READ 1st Post............

mc · Post by mc » 17 Aug 2008 16:38

mathieu, you are my hero!!!!!!!

thank you so much for doing this!

I preferred vasek's routine to damian's :/ haven't seen sergey's yet.

I liked vasek's playing with the music. he is still my champion.

matt

mc · Post by mc » 17 Aug 2008 16:57

after seeing sergey's, I liked his better than vasek or damian.

but that's just me.

My favorite part of the 3 videos I've watched is seeing my good friends Jay, Ben, Jack, and Oxana in the front row of routines, just a few feet from our champions.

Maraxus · Post by **Maraxus** » 17 Aug 2008 17:51

Matt Cross wrote:after seeing sergey's, I liked his better than vasek or damian.

I agree.

Guydro · Post by **Guydro** » 17 Aug 2008 18:04

Sergey Kozlov - 1st place
Vasek Klouda - 2nd place
Damian Gielnicki - 3rd place

But who are we to say. They were all real good routines. Like Dave said I glad I wasn't the one that had to judge it. But if a was..........That was my picks.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 17 Aug 2008 18:22

I definately enjoyed Sergey's routine the most. He seemed relaxed and he just dominated.

Vasek's routine was just frustrating. He dicked around too much doing toe delays, insides and just kicking the bag.

I don't know how i feel about the whole one drop versus dropless debate but I might as well point out that Vasek beat Ryan Mulroney's dropless routine in 2002 with a drop.

CIC flurry · Post by **CIC flurry** » 17 Aug 2008 18:27

Someone being better than Vasek would be very shocking to me. I haven't seen any evidence of this yet. I've never thought routines determined the best player in the world though. I think we've had a discussion on this before.

I can see how the placements were arrived at, but honestly- they were pretty blah to me.
To me it was like this:
Damien: lot of shuffle that I've seen plenty of average-advanced players do, but he threw some big moves in there, and had a little choreography.
Vasek: I actually liked his choreography. I haven't seen many routines, but it's prolly my fav choreography. he definitely didn't hit as many moves as Damien, but that's not what routines are about i don't think. He did seem a bit shaky.
Sergey: I hate your song.

Did Vasek compete in Circle or anything else? if no, why not?

Do you guys think the level of players has caught up to Vasek all around (not just routines)? Is he just so bored of no competition that he's stopped playing? Will this put a fire under him to tear some ass next year?

Ok, I just watched the first 2 turns of circle, and they were more enjoyable than any of the routines. Just my opinion. Don't know why I'm putting it out here. San Dimas High School football RULEZ!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 17 Aug 2008 18:30

Blue_turnip wrote: I don't know how i feel about the whole one drop versus dropless debate but I might as well point out that Vasek beat Ryan Mulroney's dropless routine in 2002 with a drop.

Yeah I think that was a mistake as well, although it took me about 3 years to come to that decision

Interestingly since 2000 2002 and 2008 are the only years where a non dropless routine has won worlds.

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 17 Aug 2008 18:50

CIC flurry wrote:Ok, I just watched the first 2 turns of circle, and they were more enjoyable than any of the routines. Just my opinion. Don't know why I'm putting it out here. San Dimas High School football RULEZ!

+1

Sora · Post by **Sora** » 17 Aug 2008 18:53

[b]To CIC flurry:[/b]
Do you guys think the level of players has caught up to Vasek all around (not just routines)? Is he just so bored of no competition that he's stopped playing? Will this put a fire under him to tear some ass next year?

Vasek went to barcelona a month ago and I played very little with him. He doesn't plays a lot, but he showed his skills close to everyday in "Ramblas of Barcelona" but playing diferent... not doing hard.

But playing alone with him and milan, Ianek,... I just turn my head back and I saw Vaska hitting Nemesis to Montage (drop) like nothing. Scorpions tail's osis (I don't know the name of the trik) both sides with absolutly no problem.

So I dont really understand why in his final rutine he doesn't look safly and he stopped so much...

My opinion is tha he is still in a VERY VERY up level, a lot, A LOT of much more than anyone who plays footbag. It's something that you can say if you've palyed with him. (and with anothers masters of footbag of course)[

Pancake Flogger · Post by **Pancake Flogger** » 17 Aug 2008 19:21

I think Damian looked super smooth. Sergey was great too, but I, too, hated the song. Yoshi Island, anyone?

I love Vasek's new, rock-solid style, but what the hell was with the inside kicking and toe bailing? Everyone is screaming dropless when without at least 3 different bails, he could have easily dropped a bunch of times.

I still loved his routine.

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 17 Aug 2008 21:58

IMO and im sure in a couple others opinions.

Winning worlds makes you the world champion it DOES NOT make you the best player in the world.

I feel like Damian winning was kind of undeserved, but thats totally my opinion.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 17 Aug 2008 22:20

That's true, but I guess like with every sport, it's the only real measure we have. Although I think most people would agree that Vasek is still the best player in the world but that's entirely subjective. If we asked a question like; "who is the second best player in the world" suddenly there is no clear answer and we can either endlessly debate the topic, or use competition results to give an approximate answer.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 18 Aug 2008 00:13

I'm inclined to say that Vasek deserves third, of the three. We all know what he was trying to do, more or less, but that shouldn't sway our opinions. He clearly botched it.

It's a hard call between Damian and Sergey. Damian's routine -was- well, choreographed, whatever you all are telling yourselves.

The polyrhythms implied by the shuffle synced up with his music of choice were very spot on nearly all of the time. When he wasn't shuffling the choreography was very nice, as well. There was less vaudeville-style showmanship, to be sure, but I personally think that's something footbag can do without. Take a cue from the olympics.

The real arguments against his routine are definitely his lack of variety, the one drop, and being a little less in control than Sergey.

Sergey's routine has both very direct showmanship, traveling (or whatever the technical term for that is), and variety going for him. What he lacks is difficulty.

I guess what I would have to wonder is whether a routine that has less variety, but is clearly very intense and well choreographed is better or worse than a routine that has a good deal of variety, both in choreography and technicality, but lacks in difficulty? Clearly, it's situational, but I think that in this case Gielnicki's got it, even despite the difference in confidence. I just would have liked to see a paradon or something done to one of those violin runs.

Regarding having one drop versus going dropless, I can't really say what my opinion is. My thought would be that drops are more an indicator of the player than a statistic to be weighed. Consider a player who drops once, gets upset, and leaves the stage. Now consider a player who drops once and doesn't let it break the flow of his or her routine. Big difference! Consider a player who has a very obviously complicated routine who drops three or four times yet executes the rest of the routine perfectly. Luck? What about a player who has the same complicated routine and executes it very sloppily, losing balance frequently, and having to save the bag a number of times?

I'd also like to chime in on 'traveling' (purposefully): I for one don't think this should be a judging criterion! What an outmoded holdover from the past! Let's get real, here.

Just traveling in a circle around the stage I don't feel bears any real significance as far as choreography goes. Maybe this is judged as a technical bonus? I can't remember. That would make more sense, at least to me. Just so long as they aren't traveling accidentally.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 18 Aug 2008 00:22

I think there's obviously some degree of technical ability needed for travelling, and certainly part of the goal of a routine should be to show the judges how many different things you can do - I think variety is a very big part of technical abilities. It also can be used artistically, although obviously there is no artistic merit just in doing it - it needs to suit the music and the style of the routine.

Regarding Vasek's routine - I think it's really important when judging that the past has no impact on results. It is completely irrelevant what Vasek's abilities are, or what he's capable of. Judges should judge entirely on the performance in front of them. I don't think that's what happened in this instance.

Wumbo · Post by **Wumbo** » 18 Aug 2008 04:25

I'm inclined to say that Vasek deserves third, of the three. We all know what he was trying to do, more or less, but that shouldn't sway our opinions. He clearly botched it.

no not really. can u tell me?

my rank is
1.sergey - confidence, good tricks(ripstein, ripped warrior i have no idea what u mean by he wasnt doing hard tricks), variety, room-taking
2.damian -he did well but he repeats the same tricks over and over again and the music choice is weak
3.vasek -its cool to watch but ye, the stops are annoying its not really a routine what we are used to see in routines its cut apart

by the way i find arek dudziÂ´s routine very good too bad he had these drops!

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 18 Aug 2008 04:32

Jeremy wrote:Regarding Vasek's routine - I think it's really important when judging that the past has no impact on results. It is completely irrelevant what Vasek's abilities are, or what he's capable of. Judges should judge entirely on the performance in front of them. I don't think that's what happened in this instance.

I've been trying to phrase that. I think you did a good job here. I want to mention that I have a hard time speaking of our sport's professionalism with conviction anymore. There are some people that clearly excel at this, but I feel that many poor decisions are made and more frequently as the skill levels increase.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 18 Aug 2008 05:40

I was watching Olympic diving last night, and the commentator kept talking about the "overall impression" of a dive, and how that overall impression was actually part of the scoring process. From what I gather (because I'm not a diving expert) the overall impression is basically, did the dive make you say "wow" or not.

(only looking at top 3) Technical discussions aside, and using pure 'which routine would most people consider to be the most pleasing to watch (overall impression)' I'd have to take Sergey as 1st place. The confidence factor, the flow, everything.. just made it pleasing to watch.

I applied the theory by using my wife (who knows almost nothing about what different tricks are, but does appreciate the sport when played well). Based purely on overall impression, she picked Sergey.

I guess I'm saying, overall impression (in my opinion) should be the first/primary factor in judging a routine, and that overall impression doesn't need to be that complicated - gut feeling goes a long way.