Worlds 2008 final routines

professor · Post by **professor** » 18 Aug 2008 14:18

FlexThis wrote:I agree - this goes for you newer "superstars" as well. Watch some older routine videos from guys like Peter Irish, Eric Wulff and Ryan Mulroney to see a mix of difficulty and presentation in a routine.

2 minute shred is NOT a routine. It is 2 minutes of shred. NO ONE got it right this year. I saw no fancy 2 bag juggling, no impressive fliers, and not even impressive shuffle (just some shuffle). I am still disappointed.

Circle comps are looking better and better for the technical side of things, routines are missing the mark.

The routines this year weren't just 2 minutes of shred. It was shred that was weaved into the music to match the intensity and flow of said music. What you're talking about seems a lot like hitting a couple flying clippers on cymbal crashes and the obligatory 2 bag juggle. All the things you listed have been done before and I for one welcome a change to more shred based routines.

On the other hand if people start doing those "fancy" things in routines we shouldn't say "NO ONE got it right this year". If that's how they want to present themselves in a routine, then that's their right. There are no rules for or against it, so we should just sit back and enjoy.

To be honest, I really didn't like the tone of your post because it wasn't constructive criticism at all, but more of a dissatisfaction with change. You can express your dissatisfaction with the routines, but I don't think it's right to tell people how to do their routines. Especially if it's only based on tradition.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 18 Aug 2008 14:41

Ben, I think you are reading too much into my post and I don't think a post can have a tone (that would require a sound).

Routines should have a WOW factor of some sort. Something that makes you go oooo and aaaahh. I did not see it in these routines.

I was merely expressing my disappointment with Vasek, my admiration for Sergey, and my shear "He missed the point of routines" for Damian. That's all!!!

I did not intend to down grade anyone - I even posted a link to a video I thought looked more routine like. And you are correct Ben when you say I am looking at it from a traditional perspective, which is a switch for me, cause I generally prefer change.

I just didn't see it this year. Sorry guys

Paulsator · Post by **Paulsator** » 18 Aug 2008 15:02

maybe because you weren't there???

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 18 Aug 2008 15:14

Yeah I liked Damian's choreography more than Vasek's. Vasek's was off time alot but Damian's was just flawless.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 18 Aug 2008 15:20

So the 1 drop routine was "flawless..."

Also just a pro tip for internetz people. Text doesn't have a tone, and as soon as you try to interpret how the person was feeling when they wrote their post your walking down the path to meaningless debate. It is also never relevant to a discussion, what a person's "tone" was.

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 18 Aug 2008 15:51

Jeremy wrote:So the 1 drop routine was "flawless..."

Also just a pro tip for internetz people. Text doesn't have a tone, and as soon as you try to interpret how the person was feeling when they wrote their post your walking down the path to meaningless debate. It is also never relevant to a discussion, what a person's "tone" was.

Tone is pretty much a common element of writing. Yep. Thought about it again. Definitely common. See, that was a facetious tone.

It is particularly hard to find or determine a tone in snippets of internet talk, so if that is what you mean I agree.

Regarding FlexThis: I did not pick up on the same tone that Professor did, and I pretty much agree. Routines is not about tradition. Routines has specific criteria. This criteria differs from shred 30. Beat-syncing toe-shuffle from a single stance with accommodation for occaisional changes in groove is not choreography. It is shuffle. Vasek demonstrated a routine. Twister had the impression that he was doing a lighter version of shred 30 to music.

Congrats to Twister though. He won after all.

Tripp · Post by **Tripp** » 18 Aug 2008 17:16

Ryan's 11 year ago routine is better than any this year.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 18 Aug 2008 17:41

LOFA wrote: Tone is pretty much a common element of writing. Yep. Thought about it again. Definitely common. See, that was a facetious tone.

It is particularly hard to find or determine a tone in snippets of internet talk, so if that is what you mean I agree.

Hard to the extent that if you try interpreting people's tone, instead of merely focusing on the argument, you're going to get into a meaningless debate like this one.

Tripp wrote:Ryan's 11 year ago routine is better than any this year.

I'm guessing you're talking about his 1997 semi-final routine? I think the technical level of this years routines are very significantly better.

Tripp · Post by **Tripp** » 18 Aug 2008 17:43

Whatever... I didn't see anyone hit Flurry in any of these.

Why isn't Phil getting the respect he deserves for his routine? I vote for him...

Post by **Zac Miley** » 18 Aug 2008 18:18

For sure Josh. If Phil didn't drop I would have voted him as first. His routine was great!

I think Ryan routine was really hard for his time, but routines now are much harder. Ryan could definitely still compete with that routine though.

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 18 Aug 2008 20:14

I still would have voted for that legendary Ryan routine. Now and then.

Webslinger · Post by **Webslinger** » 18 Aug 2008 21:01

You guys should really study how the judging works for freestyle and what criterias and merits are actually judged...

SlashC · Post by **SlashC** » 18 Aug 2008 22:53

Did anyone else imagine Vasek doing his finals routine with a football?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 19 Aug 2008 00:10

Webslinger wrote:You guys should really study how the judging works for freestyle and what criterias and merits are actually judged...

Given that I wrote the rules used for judging freestyle routines, I think I know what they say.

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 19 Aug 2008 01:21

wow this years finals caused quite a stir!

I think it's hard to judge a routine properly from an online video.

Judging is always difficult, and some people will always be unsatisfied
with the result.

It's interesting to see how different the opinions concerning the rankings are in this thread.

My props to Damian for winning worlds, no matter what. He had
a good routine and I did see his choreography in there.

Thanks a lot for putting the routines out so quickly!!

Jana · Post by **Jana** » 19 Aug 2008 01:45

considering that ales, steve and ianek were judges then thereÂ´s no doubt that the decision they made was right! you canÂ´t find better ones!

Wiktor · Post by **Wiktor** » 19 Aug 2008 02:34

Between Vasek and Damian was 5 ranking points difference,
so i wasn`t that close.

I guess many of you just know routines from videos. Please respect judges. Its hard work.

I would be nice to see your real names, guys. Noone has real name signature ! I dont even know who can i argue with...

It seems, that many of you are not satisfied with top players in the world nowadays. We all know Ryan was exellent, but he stopped.

Can you change it? - Play better, go to tournament, win. Sounds easy.

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 19 Aug 2008 03:30

Wiktor wrote:Between Vasek and Damian was 5 ranking points difference,
so i wasn`t that close.

I guess many of you just know routines from videos. Please respect judges. Its hard work.

I would be nice to see your real names, guys. Noone has real name signature ! I dont even know who can i argue with...

It seems, that many of you are not satisfied with top players in the world nowadays. We all know Ryan was exellent, but he stopped.

Can you change it? - Play better, go to tournament, win. Sounds easy.

On one hand I think it's cool that you posted. On the other hand I feel people are aloud to voice their opinions.

Thank you for clarifying the names of the judges for me. My last name is Brill.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 19 Aug 2008 03:44

Jana wrote:considering that ales, steve and ianek were judges then thereÂ´s no doubt that the decision they made was right! you canÂ´t find better ones!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fa ... _fallacies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

*Jethro* · Post by ***Jethro*** » 19 Aug 2008 03:56

Some nice routines in there. I'm not sure why people are ragging on Vasek's routine for it's low level of difficulty, especially in comparison to the others.

Vasek had blurry whirl, ps whirl, superfly, whirlwind and some other nicely linked double downs and tripless shuffle. He did have plenty of tilts and bops however, they were all timed nicely and tied in well with the choreography.

Damien had blurrier, fog, ripstein, spinning whirl and double spinning clipper. No juggling, some nice shuffle and fewer spins. There wasn't too much choreography either. Also he dropped.

I think my point is clear. Perhaps many of us are bias just because Vasek has wow'ed us for so long. Anyhow, thanks for the footage and good job to all competitors.

edit: I thought Sergey's was fantastic! Great trick selection, very both sided, nice difficulty, timed well and choreographed well. Good job!