Didnt know where to really post this...
Just wondering ideas on how to train.
Lets say I play 4 times a week for 2hrs.
My goal is to build a really solid base of as many 4 add tricks as possible. This is assuming that I have a really good base of 3 add tricks.
Ive heard things from some of Europeans such as:
-try to hit a move 100 times each side
Ive heard things like from the North American's:
-just work on tricks that you cannot do very well
-do drills like rubberman, rubberman 2, toe drills
-sit in a gym and just train train train, get a partner so you are not 'the' or film yourself.
Basically just want to get ideas from hopefully BAP members on how they went about really getting to that next level.
My initial plan is just putting in the work, and trying to hit moves 100 times each side, maybe chosing 5 moves to work on in a session. This being done 3 times a week, then the 4th day is just shred.
Also going to tournments etc.
Any advise would be good. I want a large variety of 4 add moves.
4 add tricks - training routine?
I'm not BAP so I hope it's ok that I post.
Regarding where to put this, Shred Symosium would have been the right place if the original definitions were adhered to, but things tend to be pretty vague these days so this is probably ok.
I think your plan sounds really good. Setting goals is a great step, doing things both sides is great and working on basics is also good.
If it were me, my goal would be to hit each move 20 (or whatever number) times in a row (with a hand catch in between, or consec, or in the one run), rather than just 100 times. I say this because for me consistency is the most important thing. While hitting something 100 times will definitely improve that consistency, it seems better to set the goal directly to be consistent, rather than a goal that will indirectly lead to some consistency (I can think of a lot of moves I've hit well over 100 times but are still not consistent).
The other this is that I would be less concerned about adds, and more focus on components. There are 3 types of components to work on - sets, downtimes and whole move, although the third ones still tend to be combinations.
You say you want a big variety of 4 adds. If you could hit the main sets; spinning, ducking, pixie, stepping, fairy, atomic, quantum, nuclear, and the basic downtimes, mirage, illusion, butterfly, whirl, drifter, dlo, torque, blender, double down, eggbeater, swirl, and symp versions of these where possible, on both sides, you would be able to hit 576 moves, most of which would be 4 adds or above. That's pretty good from only learning 52 different components (26 on each side).
When I practice, I always work on components rather than individual moves unless it's a particular move I going to use in a competition. For example if I said I was drilling whirls, it would probably mean that I'd work on whirl, toe whirl, pdx whirl, symp whirl, blurry whirl, stepping whirl, tomahawk, spinning whirl, ps whirl (which are what I'd think of as "whirl standards") as well as some others, probably related to what else I'd been drilling that day like pixie whirl, whirr, whirling swirl, etc.
I very rarely drill the hardest versions of components that I can hit, for example in the case of whirl - I'd never work on sailing ducking whirl, because I don't want to be able to hit big tricks occasionally, I want to be able to hit medium difficulty tricks all the time. Of course as I improve the medium difficulty tricks become harder and tricks that were big slowly fall into the range that I do drill.
The other thing I really like about your training regime is that it sounds very disciplined. This is probably the most important thing to do, however you decide to train. Because there is so much variety in footbag, it's easy to spend an hour or two fucking around and not really improving anywhere. If you're disciplined and work specifically and thoughtfully, you'll improve a lot faster.
One more thing to add, worry about how you hit moves, not if you hit them or not. Last night I spent about 30 minutes drilling stepping ss clipper on my "flipside" - a move I've been able to hit for 5 years and have a consecutive record on both sides well over 20. I did this because even though I can hit the move, it wasn't feeling "right" and I didn't want to work on any stepping stuff until I'd fixed it.
Cheers,
Regarding where to put this, Shred Symosium would have been the right place if the original definitions were adhered to, but things tend to be pretty vague these days so this is probably ok.
I think your plan sounds really good. Setting goals is a great step, doing things both sides is great and working on basics is also good.
If it were me, my goal would be to hit each move 20 (or whatever number) times in a row (with a hand catch in between, or consec, or in the one run), rather than just 100 times. I say this because for me consistency is the most important thing. While hitting something 100 times will definitely improve that consistency, it seems better to set the goal directly to be consistent, rather than a goal that will indirectly lead to some consistency (I can think of a lot of moves I've hit well over 100 times but are still not consistent).
The other this is that I would be less concerned about adds, and more focus on components. There are 3 types of components to work on - sets, downtimes and whole move, although the third ones still tend to be combinations.
You say you want a big variety of 4 adds. If you could hit the main sets; spinning, ducking, pixie, stepping, fairy, atomic, quantum, nuclear, and the basic downtimes, mirage, illusion, butterfly, whirl, drifter, dlo, torque, blender, double down, eggbeater, swirl, and symp versions of these where possible, on both sides, you would be able to hit 576 moves, most of which would be 4 adds or above. That's pretty good from only learning 52 different components (26 on each side).
When I practice, I always work on components rather than individual moves unless it's a particular move I going to use in a competition. For example if I said I was drilling whirls, it would probably mean that I'd work on whirl, toe whirl, pdx whirl, symp whirl, blurry whirl, stepping whirl, tomahawk, spinning whirl, ps whirl (which are what I'd think of as "whirl standards") as well as some others, probably related to what else I'd been drilling that day like pixie whirl, whirr, whirling swirl, etc.
I very rarely drill the hardest versions of components that I can hit, for example in the case of whirl - I'd never work on sailing ducking whirl, because I don't want to be able to hit big tricks occasionally, I want to be able to hit medium difficulty tricks all the time. Of course as I improve the medium difficulty tricks become harder and tricks that were big slowly fall into the range that I do drill.
The other thing I really like about your training regime is that it sounds very disciplined. This is probably the most important thing to do, however you decide to train. Because there is so much variety in footbag, it's easy to spend an hour or two fucking around and not really improving anywhere. If you're disciplined and work specifically and thoughtfully, you'll improve a lot faster.
One more thing to add, worry about how you hit moves, not if you hit them or not. Last night I spent about 30 minutes drilling stepping ss clipper on my "flipside" - a move I've been able to hit for 5 years and have a consecutive record on both sides well over 20. I did this because even though I can hit the move, it wasn't feeling "right" and I didn't want to work on any stepping stuff until I'd fixed it.
Cheers,
Thanks Jeremy
components seems to be something that I need to think about rather than just 4 add moves. The 576 different moves logic that you brought up.
Another thing I liked that you brought up is the 'f'ing around' part. Thats the main reason I posted this. I just seem to spend time wasting time instead of having a plan. I will use your 20 times in a row logic. My plan is to do break up my footbag year into 4 quarters. After each 3 month period I will review my game and see if the approach to the quarter was good or not. I dont want to get into a groove where I am so anal that I dont have fun. That is why shredding with others once a week must happen and fun during drills must happen. I will have one quarter where I rest and dont play much footbag, and basically build up cardio stamina etc. This was some good advise from Andrew Grant, saying that we footbag players need 1-2 months solid time away from the bag every year or unfortunately overuse injuries will come up. Also Dylan Fry brought up a good point in an e-mail recently stating people who really drill down on the basics are less likely to get injured.
Jeremy, BAP not a requirement to post thoughts, I had asked hopefully of BAP players would contribute as they are the cream of the crop, but I can learn from everyone in this forum, beginner or not. Your reply was enough of a response to give me ideas for this quarter. Any other posts will be bonus material as far as I am concerned.
components seems to be something that I need to think about rather than just 4 add moves. The 576 different moves logic that you brought up.
Another thing I liked that you brought up is the 'f'ing around' part. Thats the main reason I posted this. I just seem to spend time wasting time instead of having a plan. I will use your 20 times in a row logic. My plan is to do break up my footbag year into 4 quarters. After each 3 month period I will review my game and see if the approach to the quarter was good or not. I dont want to get into a groove where I am so anal that I dont have fun. That is why shredding with others once a week must happen and fun during drills must happen. I will have one quarter where I rest and dont play much footbag, and basically build up cardio stamina etc. This was some good advise from Andrew Grant, saying that we footbag players need 1-2 months solid time away from the bag every year or unfortunately overuse injuries will come up. Also Dylan Fry brought up a good point in an e-mail recently stating people who really drill down on the basics are less likely to get injured.
Jeremy, BAP not a requirement to post thoughts, I had asked hopefully of BAP players would contribute as they are the cream of the crop, but I can learn from everyone in this forum, beginner or not. Your reply was enough of a response to give me ideas for this quarter. Any other posts will be bonus material as far as I am concerned.
BAP isn't necessarily cream of the crop.
Worrying about BAP is like worrying about adds.
Montage is 7 adds. Blurry double reverse swirling dyno is 7 adds.
Olaf Piwowar isn't in BAP.
I would talk to Anssi. I don't know if he's still doing this, but he was making up training programs for people. You tell him what components you want to school and he makes up drills or whatever for you, and goals to aim for. His Modified name is "Anz". Anssi is another example of non-BAP cream of the crop. ( http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=19316 )
Worrying about BAP is like worrying about adds.
Montage is 7 adds. Blurry double reverse swirling dyno is 7 adds.
Olaf Piwowar isn't in BAP.
I would talk to Anssi. I don't know if he's still doing this, but he was making up training programs for people. You tell him what components you want to school and he makes up drills or whatever for you, and goals to aim for. His Modified name is "Anz". Anssi is another example of non-BAP cream of the crop. ( http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=19316 )
Yeah, I can still help people construct training programs for themselves.
Also the big program I used to work on is about to be published with it's results, but it will take some time (mostly because I need to work on it like two hours straight first, and I've been too lazy lately). But it will be finished and open for public soon.
Also the big program I used to work on is about to be published with it's results, but it will take some time (mostly because I need to work on it like two hours straight first, and I've been too lazy lately). But it will be finished and open for public soon.
