Swirl
Moderator: Muffinman
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comastalker
- BSOS Beast
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btw. not using the roll-off method doesn't necessarily mean to do it downtime; I mostly do it midtime
-Richard Vock-
"And today the great Yertle, The Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course...all turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be."
- Dr. Seuss
"And today the great Yertle, The Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course...all turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be."
- Dr. Seuss
rich, what exactly about rolling the bag off your foot bothers you? it facilitates the move, it doesn't make it any less clean, it's just a method. it is definitely necessary for swirling sets, and really helps with ripstein. it makes the swirl into a much more subtle, simple, controlled movement.
just wondering what you're thinking.
just wondering what you're thinking.
BRICK!
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
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comastalker
- BSOS Beast
- Posts: 373
- Joined: 02 Mar 2004 10:00
- Location: germany - leverkusen
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I'm not really against it, but I hate people who tell me I have to do it this way, because it ain't right (I'm also prejudiced by the "do paradons mid-time" discussion).
I'm able to reverse-swirl set quite useful without letting it roll off and I'm aiming at learning to ripstein without letting it roll off.
What concerns me are statements like "if it's good for ripstein, it has to be good for swirls"; analogue to e.g. symp torques and symp mirages, there's a tendency to do those quite slurry just to hit the move and then there occurs the habit to do it always this way.
I still personally think rev. and forw. swirls shall look the same.
All this discussion is in fact useless as there is no set limit for sth. to be done dirty. What makes a pulled stepping set dirty ? Why are thin dexes considered dirty ? You can't answer something to these questions without saying something that can also be applied to roll-off swirls.
I personally think it's this way :
Do what you want ("Nothing is true; Everything is permitted" -Hassan y Sabbah); self-serve as much as you like as far as you don't disturb or provocate somebody. If you like to bail, do it. If you like to the or just don't care, do it. But don't tell other people to do something your way if there are several ones. If somebody wants not to use the roll-off method he maybe takes a harder way, but the easier one related to rev-swirls.
"The wise one changes his opinion" -F. Nietzsche.
I'm able to reverse-swirl set quite useful without letting it roll off and I'm aiming at learning to ripstein without letting it roll off.
What concerns me are statements like "if it's good for ripstein, it has to be good for swirls"; analogue to e.g. symp torques and symp mirages, there's a tendency to do those quite slurry just to hit the move and then there occurs the habit to do it always this way.
I still personally think rev. and forw. swirls shall look the same.
All this discussion is in fact useless as there is no set limit for sth. to be done dirty. What makes a pulled stepping set dirty ? Why are thin dexes considered dirty ? You can't answer something to these questions without saying something that can also be applied to roll-off swirls.
I personally think it's this way :
Do what you want ("Nothing is true; Everything is permitted" -Hassan y Sabbah); self-serve as much as you like as far as you don't disturb or provocate somebody. If you like to bail, do it. If you like to the or just don't care, do it. But don't tell other people to do something your way if there are several ones. If somebody wants not to use the roll-off method he maybe takes a harder way, but the easier one related to rev-swirls.
"The wise one changes his opinion" -F. Nietzsche.
-Richard Vock-
"And today the great Yertle, The Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course...all turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be."
- Dr. Seuss
"And today the great Yertle, The Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course...all turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be."
- Dr. Seuss
well, I respect your personal values concerning footbag, and I'd encourage you to keep with them if it's what makes you comfortable about your style, but...
"But don't tell other people to do something your way if there are several ones."
I hope this is just a gap in your english, and you meant "don't tell others your way is the *only* right way, and that everything else is not, if there are several ones"...
because I'm definitely going to keep giving advice in these posts.
and I still think a well-rolled swirl is a precise, clean motion. there's no way to keep the bag on your foot while your foot is going over it for the swirl, so it's not comparable to a slurred step, and the dex occurs at my ankle (although, it doesn't for everyone, admittedly) so it's not comparable to a thin dex. were someone to do a rolled swirl dex with the middle of their foot, that would be considered dirty by me, but not because of the roll, rather because it's a thin dex, just like any other footy dex.
"The wise one changes his opinion" -F. Nietzsche.
that applies to you, too, my friend
no disrespect, rich. just how I feel.
"But don't tell other people to do something your way if there are several ones."
I hope this is just a gap in your english, and you meant "don't tell others your way is the *only* right way, and that everything else is not, if there are several ones"...
because I'm definitely going to keep giving advice in these posts.
and I still think a well-rolled swirl is a precise, clean motion. there's no way to keep the bag on your foot while your foot is going over it for the swirl, so it's not comparable to a slurred step, and the dex occurs at my ankle (although, it doesn't for everyone, admittedly) so it's not comparable to a thin dex. were someone to do a rolled swirl dex with the middle of their foot, that would be considered dirty by me, but not because of the roll, rather because it's a thin dex, just like any other footy dex.
"The wise one changes his opinion" -F. Nietzsche.
that applies to you, too, my friend
no disrespect, rich. just how I feel.
BRICK!
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
My opinion:
Vasek, Felix, etc... Midtime ripstein with a swirl set and a downtime swirl.
Jon Schneider's ripstein... Completely downtime.
I personally think the latter is really ugly, and that the former fits much better in strings. When I learn swirl I'm going to learn both the swirl set and the downtime swirl to give my game greater diversity.
Vasek, Felix, etc... Midtime ripstein with a swirl set and a downtime swirl.
Jon Schneider's ripstein... Completely downtime.
I personally think the latter is really ugly, and that the former fits much better in strings. When I learn swirl I'm going to learn both the swirl set and the downtime swirl to give my game greater diversity.
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mosher
- brutal footbag cronie
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- Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Just weighing in here, I personally feel way cooler when I know I didn't roll my swirl, not to knock on anyone elses shit (It's freee style right?) but at a personal level, I feel I have executed the trick more cleanly when I set then dex as two distinct motions.
I admit that this is SLIGHTLY different than rolling a pixie off your toe because in that case it is almost surely going to be thin. But I can say as an eye witness that yes matt rolls his swirling sets, but he does it precisely and deeply around his ankle/calf so it is not unclean in that regard. But what is cleanliness then? Is that a clean rolling set? I thought logically that a clean swirl/swirling set would be one where you don't drag your foot along the bag for a quarter of the dex.
Hahah this all being said, I still roll alot of my swirling sets because they are hard.
Oh well, I always find myself saying this after I have tried to make my point in a debate, who gives a crap, it's freestyle!
I admit that this is SLIGHTLY different than rolling a pixie off your toe because in that case it is almost surely going to be thin. But I can say as an eye witness that yes matt rolls his swirling sets, but he does it precisely and deeply around his ankle/calf so it is not unclean in that regard. But what is cleanliness then? Is that a clean rolling set? I thought logically that a clean swirl/swirling set would be one where you don't drag your foot along the bag for a quarter of the dex.
Hahah this all being said, I still roll alot of my swirling sets because they are hard.
Oh well, I always find myself saying this after I have tried to make my point in a debate, who gives a crap, it's freestyle!
Tom Mosher
hate is a waste of passion!
hate is a waste of passion!
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comastalker
- BSOS Beast
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mmmkay...Matt Cross wrote:I hope this is just a gap in your english, and you meant "don't tell others your way is the *only* right way, and that everything else is not, if there are several ones"...
"The wise one changes his opinion" -F. Nietzsche.
that applies to you, too, my friend
no disrespect, rich. just how I feel.
1.) yepp, there seems to be a gap in my english...
2.) I know, that it applies to me too, but what I wanted to say with the 1st statement you quoted is that opinions (like mine) DO change and that you have to differentiate between taste and idealist facts.
Not to define one's own ways as the only ones is defintily an idealist one.
well, let me simplify all my past statements regarding this topic to :
"Don't limit yourself by only being able to do roll-off swirls. Especially if you're only able to front-swirl."
-Richard Vock-
"And today the great Yertle, The Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course...all turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be."
- Dr. Seuss
"And today the great Yertle, The Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course...all turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be."
- Dr. Seuss
Back to the topic, before I learned a swirl, I learned toe-set butterfly swirl. Jon Schneider posted somewhere that it's easier to learn that first, and he was quite right. The set and dex don't have to be nearly as precise.
After you've got that one working, the clipper set swirl comes pretty easily with some practice. I'm no expert, but that's how I learned.
~SPJ
After you've got that one working, the clipper set swirl comes pretty easily with some practice. I'm no expert, but that's how I learned.
~SPJ
Steve Johnson
http://www.pdga.com
http://www.pdga.com
Swirl [downtime]
Swirl [downtime]
CLIP >> SAME SWIRL [DEX] > SAME CLIP [XBD][DEL]
Hey i searched trick tips and this topic didnt come up so i was wondering if anyone had any tips for doing swirls downtime, like downtime clippper set ss swirl etc.
Thanks!
[merged with other Swirl topic - Frank_]
CLIP >> SAME SWIRL [DEX] > SAME CLIP [XBD][DEL]
Hey i searched trick tips and this topic didnt come up so i was wondering if anyone had any tips for doing swirls downtime, like downtime clippper set ss swirl etc.
Thanks!
[merged with other Swirl topic - Frank_]
Alex Urano
Delay the footbag in clipper position with your ankle cranked all the way. Turn the toe and knee of your support leg in. Bend your support knee slightly, keep a straight back, lean forward a bit, keep your arms low and to the sides in front of you, and look down at the footbag past the front of your shoulder. Pointing your support toe and knee in is important because it opens up the space where the dex occurs, so you can make it big and clean and easier.
Set the footbag by doing a quick upward motion with your delay foot, and by rising up on the ball of your foot / toes on your support leg. Rising up on your support leg helps you get the necessary height with a smaller motion from the set foot, so you can start the dexterity more quickly. It also opens the dex space a little wider. The set should be to just under knee height, or thereabouts.
As soon as the bag is off your foot cleanly (or, as soon as the bag starts to fall from it's little set, if you want to make sure it's totally downtime), extend your leg horizontally a little further (to help make the dex nice and deep), and while keeping your ankle cranked the whole time (to make the catch easier), swing it back and up at the same time, and forward to go over the bag.
As you clear the dex, come back down on your support leg as you begin get back under the bag, so you're prepared to bend your knee as you delay.
Catch.
If you want to do a Symple swirl, do your small set a little higher, do a tiny little hop from your support foot to your set / dex foot, and jump off that foot while doing the dex a little bigger than a non-symple swirl. Catch your weight and bend your knee with your support leg, and catch the footbag on your delay foot
Set the footbag by doing a quick upward motion with your delay foot, and by rising up on the ball of your foot / toes on your support leg. Rising up on your support leg helps you get the necessary height with a smaller motion from the set foot, so you can start the dexterity more quickly. It also opens the dex space a little wider. The set should be to just under knee height, or thereabouts.
As soon as the bag is off your foot cleanly (or, as soon as the bag starts to fall from it's little set, if you want to make sure it's totally downtime), extend your leg horizontally a little further (to help make the dex nice and deep), and while keeping your ankle cranked the whole time (to make the catch easier), swing it back and up at the same time, and forward to go over the bag.
As you clear the dex, come back down on your support leg as you begin get back under the bag, so you're prepared to bend your knee as you delay.
Catch.
If you want to do a Symple swirl, do your small set a little higher, do a tiny little hop from your support foot to your set / dex foot, and jump off that foot while doing the dex a little bigger than a non-symple swirl. Catch your weight and bend your knee with your support leg, and catch the footbag on your delay foot
BRICK!
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
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Zeb Jackson
- Post Master General
- Posts: 2783
- Joined: 19 Dec 2005 12:57
- Location: Boise,Idaho, USA
this really helped me alot thanks alot matt for this wonderful advise, in one session i was closer to hitting swirl than i ever have in my life, and i that ye for that =DMatt Cross wrote:bend your support knee before the swirl. straighten it and pull your foot back a little so the footbag rolls of your foot for the set. then, it's just a tiny little forward swirl motion. it's an easy move if you can get this movement right, and doing it this way leads well to ripstein.
start with your clipper foot as low to the ground as possible. some people like to do their swirls (and especially their ripsteins) more behind their back for more dexterity clearance.
-Zeb Jackson
http://www.elitefootbag.com
http://www.elitefootbag.com
ive seen that a swirl done further behind the body makes the dex alot more open and round, because there is more room for the leg to dex.
what if you dont have enough crank to delay far enough behind you to do that? if i move my clipper far enough behind me for there to be room for the dex, the bag falls off because my surface is no longer flat.
should i set sort of backwards like said higher on the page, then dex behind me, and try to catch it? thats the only way i see myself hitting this. im definitely gonna set up a dexing pole too.
also, more downtime swirl tips would be appreciated for me, although i know i should master normal ones before tackling those. still, tips are always nice.
what if you dont have enough crank to delay far enough behind you to do that? if i move my clipper far enough behind me for there to be room for the dex, the bag falls off because my surface is no longer flat.
should i set sort of backwards like said higher on the page, then dex behind me, and try to catch it? thats the only way i see myself hitting this. im definitely gonna set up a dexing pole too.
also, more downtime swirl tips would be appreciated for me, although i know i should master normal ones before tackling those. still, tips are always nice.
I do the swirl midtime since I think it looks better.
It does make ripstein harder but not impossible.
I think ripsteins looks best done uptimey but without a rolly set.
That's how I wanna learn them atleast.
It is easier to learn this trick if you practice same side clippers without plant.
Besides giving you better control you also strenghten the needed muscles.
I try to hold my clipper a little lower and a little more behind me than I usually would.
Swirl is my favorite trick!
It does make ripstein harder but not impossible.
I think ripsteins looks best done uptimey but without a rolly set.
That's how I wanna learn them atleast.
It is easier to learn this trick if you practice same side clippers without plant.
Besides giving you better control you also strenghten the needed muscles.
I try to hold my clipper a little lower and a little more behind me than I usually would.
Swirl is my favorite trick!
Drew asked about swirl motions.
Here is my swirling Trick Tutorial Video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_nCVA3bH4[/youtube]
Here is my swirling Trick Tutorial Video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_nCVA3bH4[/youtube]
BRICK!
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
rfa::never give up::
nyfa