The Big Move from Modified to Footbag.org (?)

mtoolan · Post by **mtoolan** » 13 Sep 2008 20:33

i was thinking the same thing danny said. im not against it or anything, i think it's a great idea but it might get annoying when every new guy triple posts about why he thinks lavers are unnecessary because skate shoes get the job done. i agree that its possible to leave the discussion and kicking circle behind but i do learn stuff from them, like current issues in the world that i wouldnt hear about elseware, and i just ignore topics with flames and stuff. i personally like pms because while the email thing is practical i dont always check my email or ill miss something because its blended in with all the other crap that goes there, and im sure there are other people that think this as well. a pm is right there when you modified loads.

like i said im all for this, just getting my thoughts out there.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 13 Sep 2008 20:47

PMs are really useful, like for sharing contact info w/someone when you don't know any of their contact info other than their Modified handle.

I also like the edit feature for keeping things organized in my blog, and journies to tournies.

What about the ignore function - would that stay or go?

I think some of the concerns about endless noob questions could be addressed through some sort of post-restriction function and/or active moderation. I do see the merit in the idea. But I would just like to know what is or isn't on the table as far as functionality before this happens.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 13 Sep 2008 22:07

The email function on footbag.org sends an email to the person you're trying to email without revealing their email address. You need to a valid email address to register as well, so it's pretty much the same as a PM except you get it as an email instead, which means you can get a lot more than 50.

I'm sure the ignore function could be added to footbag.org if people really thought it was necessary, but I tend to find it slightly less effort to just actually ignore people's posts. If I click ignore and then ignored people respond to my posts I usually want to know what they say anyway.

I think the concern about noobs is selfish and not worth even attempting to address.

Jorden · Post by **Jorden** » 13 Sep 2008 23:03

Something as trendy, youthful and alternative as modified might lose some steam if attached to a cold, formal, heavily supervised .org.

mc · Post by mc » 13 Sep 2008 23:10

Jorden,

well, nothing like a bunch of footbaggers to warm up and informalize any situation

as for heavily supervised, it is my understanding that that has been backed off in the past few years.

I hope steve will read this and respond to some of the things you folks have said.

As for the rest of you asking about functionality, the impression I'm getting from steve is that he wants this to happen, and he's approaching the situation with some flexibility.

I'm with Jeremy on the noob issue.

As for the kicking circle, it's not decided whether that would come or stay behind. I was just acknowledging the possibility that it COULD stay behind.

And to everyone,

in terms of receiving considerate opinions from different players, this is probably my most successful topic to date. keep it coming!!! let's talk this through and figure out what's really important to us, and what we want to do about it.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 13 Sep 2008 23:12

Edit; To Jorden

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

If you are serious, you really need to elaborate on that point, because as somebody who has been an admin of both forums, I really have no idea what you're talking about. This sounds like a gross exaggeration, or a parody of previous discussions about this, and barely related to reality at all.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 13 Sep 2008 23:15

Matt Cross wrote: And to everyone,

in terms of receiving considerate opinions from different players, this is probably my most successful topic to date. keep it coming!!! let's talk this through and figure out what's really important to us, and what we want to do about it.

From my experience, things like this topic tend to have a bit of discussion, disagreement over trivial issues, and then go nowhere.

I think that if you're really serious about this, the best thing to do would be to come up with a serious and specific proposal for people to agree on, rather than hoping we'll get to all the specifics just through consensus discussion.

At the very least put forward a time frame to work in, rather than limitless open discussion.

mc · Post by mc » 13 Sep 2008 23:21

Matt Cross wrote: Steve would like me to note that he and I "are kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum in various ways, but have agreed to collaborate to come up with a proposal that is probably long overdue, and that we think if *we* can come to terms on a good proposal, we think others will buy into it, and would like to preview some of what we're thinking about and get comments early on.

that said, you have some good points, and I agree that this will take more than open-ended talk to actually work.

So, after I've been able to test the waters a bit and see what we're working with, those things will come. Thanks for your concern.

Glad you're with me on this.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 13 Sep 2008 23:30

So for how long will you "test the waters?" - Put a time limit on it. Set some structure as to how you plan to this. Something like this;

Phase 1 - open ended discussion, 1 week.

Phase 2 - negotiation and proposal writing - 1 week.

Phase 3 - Public announcement of proposal, discussion and amendments 2 weeks.

Phase 4 - Move forum over to footbag.org - 1 week (longer - need technical assessment for time).

webmaster · Post by **webmaster** » 13 Sep 2008 23:30

Jorden wrote:Something as trendy, youthful and alternative as modified might lose some steam if attached to a cold, formal, heavily supervised .org.

Jorden, I think you're making some invalid assumptions about the proposal Matt and I are working on.

We would move the whole forum as it is (but probably upgrading it to 3.0 and binding it to the member database there), so it has a safe home to live forever. Obviously it's a lot of work to maintain it and to transfer everything over (we wouldn't lose any postings, blogs, comments, etc. from the past). It's kind of like when modified moved to .in from .ca or whatever. It's just a move (with some caveats, that I can't spell out yet 'cause we're still working out what's technical feasible and the options we have). Yes, it's more than that, but that's really how you should think of it. We're not going to suddenly disallow the current Modified moderators from being moderators on the new one. Note: I'm happy to give anyone who wants it moderator rights on footbag.org any time; nobody ever asks me but I don't mind at all.

Now -- this whole project will take a long while, so it's not like we're just suddenly going to flip a switch tomorrow. It could take months, since it's a big project. So, nothing's going to happen over night.

Anyway, back to Jorden's point -- I think you're misunderstanding that this isn't about slamming some Draconian administration policy onto the forum. It's just about hosting the forum on the server that is guaranteed to be up forever (since we as a community own it collectively through our players' association).

And the current Modified moderators/admins would remain moderators/admins on the new version. In fact, I think we should have even more moderators. My perspective on moderation has always been -- if someone asks to be a moderator, they get to be one. That way, we get more community moderation which allows for more sensible results, instead of this thing of a few people with a lot of power who might abuse it.

I am not going to get into the weeds of discussing the merits of PMs, edits, etc. right now. Let's wait 'til we get a little further down the line here of researching our options. We have it on the list that these are concerns, and we'll address them when we get to a more formal proposal, one way or the other.

Finally, to be very clear, you guys, c'mon Jon was kidding and even though some of you actually believe what he said, you need to learn that I am not controlling anything and this has always been a fallacy. Anyone who actually knows me (not just from an e-mail or two but from actually spending time with me) and actually works with me on projects knows that I'm very much about spreading the responsibility and giving access freely to others. The burden I have of maintaining footbag.org with very little help is mostly thankless and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

But -- I do all the work there as a volunteer, just like Mike Hansen and many others volunteer over here. Footbag.org is not owned by me though I am the primary administrator and wrote most of the software on the site. It's owned by IFPA which is our players' association. Not only that, but as has been mentioned, it's the de facto home for footbag on the web.

I have never said we shouldn't have diversity -- lots of sites with lots of information -- but when there's too much duplication of effort, we as a community spread ourselves too thin. I just think it'd be good at some point to consolidate. Note: I'm not the one who started this discussion and I'm just agreeing to help Matt vet this as a volunteer for this project as well. If you guys don't want it, I'm fine with that answer. I just don't want this to turn into a Steve-bashing thread which is the vibe I'm sensing. So please don't go there.

Thanks a lot.

Steve

webmaster · Post by **webmaster** » 13 Sep 2008 23:36

Jeremy wrote:Put a time limit on it. Set some structure as to how you plan to this.

Jeremy, respectfully, you're over-thinking it. We just want feedback so we can make sure our plan incorporates enough ideas from the community, then we'll make a proposal and go from there.

The only thing that would stop this from happening at this point is my time as usual. It's a complicated technical project, and unless more people who knows php, phpBB, mysql, Linux, ssh, etc. are willing to offer their services, right now it's looking like it'll just be me with some support from Mike Hansen.

And note: I've already started doing the technical research. I already have a full copy of Modified on the footbag.org server, secretly.

Progress is being made. Skepticism is healthy, but let's not let it get the best of us.

Steve

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 14 Sep 2008 00:07

Thanks for the info Steve. It's good to know more details

.

Not the first time I've been accused of "over thinking," and I'm sure it won't be the last

It sounds like a good plan anyway, and if it's just a straight move from servers - ie. the content remains the same - then I see no reason people could have to oppose it.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 14 Sep 2008 00:24

Yeah, I think this has been under discussion before?

I'm SO for it, but the Kicking Cirle, Discussion and other bullshit has to go. The sport doesn't need that.
I know some people post more in chit chat topics than actual footbag, so you can keep modified.in for that.

The thing about PM's is that you don't need them, because everyones nickname works as e-mail addres. You just add the "@footbag.org".

And doesn't the edit function on footbag.org work so that you can edit your post for one hour after you've posted it?

CIC flurry · Post by **CIC flurry** » 14 Sep 2008 02:04

I made this topic last year about what people wish footbag.org had:
http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.ph ... log#309029

I always thought that having the forum over there would make the whole community develop the entire website more: like actual blogs and better video functionality.

I don't think anyone really cares if we switch servers as long as everything stays the same. I'm fine with it as it is. I like the kicking circle. I never go to the discussion forum, but if people use them why get rid of them.

I remember some people had concerns of a lot of bs from newbs, but perhaps there could be a trial forum for newbs until they reached a certain post count or something. I don't really know if the newb thing would be an issue though. Or I guess instead of that - there could just be a sweet advanced secret forum for all us suckers with 200 or more posts where we could smoke cigars and play pool.

janis · Post by **janis** » 14 Sep 2008 05:49

I think the move is a great idea and would really help get information out to the newbies who find footbag.org but not modified.

My only concerns are:
There should be a "getting started" section for all the recurring beginner questions and the forum moderators should move all relevant beginner posts to that section.

PM's should be allowed. They provide an efficient means of communication within the forum and more convenient than emails for informal discussions between members.

There is a sense of an online community on modified that would be good to keep, by this I am mainly referring to the blogs section. And as with other blogs having an edit function is necessary. Personally I think there should be an edit function for all sections that are "on topic" because it allows people to self-censor and fix spelling mistakes. The reply that people should use the preview button is well intentioned but unrealistic as people are accustomed to being able to edit posts later on other forums.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 14 Sep 2008 05:52

Outsider wrote: All these years of keeping the main internet footbag forum separate from dot org is one of our best bastions of resistance against Steve's evil empire. Keep modified independant and stick it to the man!...)

Goldberg: There will be no glory in your sacrifice. I will erase even the memory of modified from the histories! Every piece of every thread shall be burned. Every modified user, admin, and mod shall have their eyes pulled out, and their fingers cut from their hands! Why, uttering the very name of modified, or fizzied, will be punishable by death! The world will never know you existed at all!

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 14 Sep 2008 06:37

LEGOMAN wrote:i guess this is a good way to weed out legoman

ill never use that forum

Yes you will. If every post on modified....and all of modifieds members were moved to the .org, you'd be there in 15 minutes.

On topic...I love the idea.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 14 Sep 2008 07:09

Jeremy wrote:I think the concern about noobs is selfish and not worth even attempting to address.

Matt Cross wrote:I'm with Jeremy on the noob issue.

Wow.

We all make sacrifices "for the cause" of footbag. Selfishness has nothing to do with this.

I think its a valid concern that goes straight to the usability and enjoyability of the forum. Responses like the two quoted above are not helpful towards building consensus.

pips · Post by **pips** » 14 Sep 2008 07:20

I'm pretty much with Tom K.

As long as everything gets moved over, I'm fine. I could actually do without a lot of the crap on here, but who gets to decide what's crap or not? Yeah.

PM's are nice, but like everyone else says, we can get around without them if they are a big concern with Steve. I do like edits, though. I hate leaving any punctuation and spelling mistakes lying around after I've posted.

I kind of like the non-footbag related stuff (kicking circle, discussion, etc.). It gives us more of a sense of community. No one in any community strictly talks about whatever it is they are together for.

I'd actually feel bad if we corrupted .org. I would hope that it doesn't happen. I doubt it would with the more strict regulation.

And I as I said that I am with Tom, I really like his idea about a beginners' forum or super people's secret forum. I think that would help with the beginners' repetitive postings. I dunno. Something to control that would be nice if it is or turns into a problem over there.

But all-in-all, it seems like it would be a good move for footbag.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 14 Sep 2008 08:20

There seems to be some confusion in this topic, which is strange since it's apparently been cleared up.

The current proposal is basically to move modified.in in its entirety so it is hosted on the footbag.org servers instead of the modevia servers. This could happen without anything about these forums or the current .org forums changing at all.

I think that would be a good starting point, rather than worrying about the possibility of hypothetical administrative changes occurring, which are not part of the current proposal.

The Big Move from Modified to Footbag.org (?)

Re: The Big Move from Modified to Footbag.org (?)