Has (insert viable, difficult trick name here) been hit? PG1

mc · Post by mc » 04 Sep 2008 06:10

Jeremy,

are you actually challenging the assumption that,

*if you exclusively make a nitpicky correction to someone's move / post / whatever, then you are discouraging that person from further performing such moves, or making such posts*

?

and if you are challenging that assumption, then I say this:

You may be a literalist, and see yourself as faultless in this situation,

but,

just because you're a literalist doesn't mean the rest of us are, or should be, and you should assume that inferential elements of your message are going to be taken from your message based on your presentation and content. That is the nature of human communication, whether you see it as flawed, or irrational, or whatever.

That's why your nitpickyness is being perceived as discouraging by more than one person.

I look forward to your reply in which you throw this all back in my face and maintain your pedestal of helpful perfection. If only the rest of us would just accept your perfection, this whole place would be a lot happier.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 Sep 2008 06:20

I didn't start the nitpicking. If people are going to attack me with ad hominems and ad vercundiums then I'm going to respond.

When somebody like you or Jordan or Kimbe or Erik put forward an illogical argument, and you all have, I'm going to point it out. Instead of attacking the nature of my posts, why don't people attack what I actually write, if they disagree with it?

Janis managed to do that easily. Semiconscious did it to some degree. Other people feel the need to try to discredit my opinion with irrelevant arguments. Even if what all those people, including you, say is true, that doesn't make my initial post any more or less correct. It's simply changing the subject rather than addressing the issue being discussed. That's why those kinds of arguments are called logical fallacies.

edit; And I've never claimed to be perfect. If I make a mistake I hope people call me on it, but I'm certainly not going to take criticism that I don't think is accurate or warranted. This is an example of another logical fallacy.

Jorden · Post by **Jorden** » 04 Sep 2008 08:46

Jeremy wrote:Clearly nobody was ripping on innovation. I watched the video and I posted what I saw in the video. In fact what I said wasn't even ripping on what it was. It was just an objective opinion on what he's doing.

Correct.

However, an experienced player like yourself could've been much more constructive.

Instead of just

[That trick] was actually [lesser trick].

why not also include

Try [tip] to get [element] cleaner.

Jeremy wrote: It is far better, in my opinion, to give honest assessments of people's games, rather than trying to sugar coat everything and pretend things look great when they don't. That just leads to people continuing their bad habits, which is far worse, and I really wish people had have been more honest about my game when I was starting.

No, don't sugar coat things. But don't point out flaws without explanation either. Most players don't know how to improve their moves without guidance. Saying something along the lines of "it could be better" provides no guidance and can be very discouraging to the player!

You wish more people were honest about your game when you started. If all they did was say "you suck", "that trick is wrong", "there's a bad habit", "that 4-add is a 2-add", etc. and walked away without another word would you really feel better off?

Picking out flaws for the sake of picking out flaws is wrong for the same reason that PMing players with bad style just to tell them they have bad style is wrong.

I can't think of a better way to drop numbers in our sport.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 04 Sep 2008 10:06

Jorden wrote:PMing players with bad style just to tell them they have bad style

New hobby.

brianbear · Post by **brianbear** » 04 Sep 2008 11:22

wow, you guys just went crazy with this one!
1. thanks jorden, for defending my attempts at innovation!
you're an awesome footbagger.
I think thats the most important thing to push the sport.
2. thanks for other comments, including yours jeremy.
it pushes me to make my style cleaner, and
they make me want to show you:
-this is not a fairy set (if i didn't do the little dex right when it comes off my foot it would more clearly be a pendulous, but i add that for style.
-i know pendulous is supposed to be more crossbody, but hey, i'm obviously working on something new (if not technically than style wise at least)
-i can rake cleanly, just look at my latest video at my ducking and diving ones.
-i might just go ahead and record myself doing a fairy reverse whirling rake so you and I can both see the difference between these tricks.
- i'll also record fairy swirl and pendulous swirl, that might you see the difference in my sets.

and yeah, its not all cleanly done, but i've only hit the trick 5 or 6 times.

AND SERIOUSLY: no one and no comment could evermake me quit the sport, only injuries!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 Sep 2008 15:55

That's good B. Bear. It's nice to know that there are sensible people in footbag, and not just uber sensitive emos

.

I'm sure you can hit the trick cleanly - I've seen your other video and I have no doubt. I'm sure you knew that as well.

You wish more people were honest about your game when you started. If all they did was say "you suck", "that trick is wrong", "there's a bad habit", "that 4-add is a 2-add", etc. and walked away without another word would you really feel better off?

Meaningless strawman. You only need to look through my posts in the trick tips to see that almost all my critical posts are more detailed and posts like the one you're complaining about are not "all" I post. In the case of this trick, I don't hit pendulum sets, I don't hit reverse whirls and I don't hit rakes. I'm not in a good position to give advice about a trick with all those elements. Where was your advice about how to improve the trick? Instead all you did was defend it without criticism and hijack the topic to talk about how to post criticism correctly (I can take some blame for the hijack as well of course).

I've worked in management for 2 years and I study psychology at university. I am convinced that posts like my initial one in this context would not turn away footbaggers. To be good at footbag (or indeed any sport) you need to be obsessed and driven. People like that usually respond much better to criticism than to compliments (although they hate the criticism). They strive for compliments and awards etc. but losing or getting things wrong is much greater motivation.

"I hate to lose more than I like to win." - Jimmy Connors

In management you have two kinds of people. Middle/average of the road achievers, who you need to use all the stupid management techniques with (compliment sandwhiches etc.) and you have exceptional high achievers, who you just say; "You didn't do this right," and they never get it wrong again.

I'm more interested in the second group of people.

brianbear · Post by **brianbear** » 04 Sep 2008 18:19

Now is the time to throw away all these notions of technical names to keep your imagination limitless. Naming moves quantifies the move and limits you as well. I've learned that over the years. Ignore 'the book' and do what feels right to you. The possibilities are endless! If a move you do is between two other who cares! There are an infinite number of legit variations of the same move that are all worth exploring.

i've only been shredding for about 2 years,
so these words of wisdom greatly appreciated. just what i needed to hear to remember i don't only need to drill whirls, ripwalks, or go for more adds or dexes!!!

halloween · Post by **halloween** » 17 Sep 2008 15:01

What is this move? its a torque but doing a clipper delay with the other foot. everything is exactly the same until the end.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 17 Sep 2008 23:56

Drifter?

Set>op/same in>same clip ?

halloween · Post by **halloween** » 18 Sep 2008 03:08

no this move starts from a Right Toe stall. Then the left leg go over it (like a mirage),going Right to left. Then while in air still, you turn left and land it while you do a clipper delay on the other foot. the torque it very close but you land it with the other foot.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 18 Sep 2008 03:25

Blender?

http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/6893

dyalander · Post by **dyalander** » 18 Sep 2008 18:44

it sounds like a toe drifter - if it was a blender I think he'd have to turn right, not left. Is the bag passing the front or back of your right leg before you do the clipper/as you turn?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 18 Sep 2008 20:38

Based on that description, I'd say that it's either drifter or quantum inspinning clipper

Possibly more likely to be the former than the latter

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 07 Oct 2008 07:44

Full symp blaze?

Harder...

Full symp whirlwalk?

I know Symp whirlling symp whirl has been hit, but that trick doesn't take the crazy footwork of the other two.

Zjeezy · Post by **Zjeezy** » 25 Oct 2008 18:22

I hit a move tonight that I have never seen or ever heard of anyone hitting

Gyro miraging symp rev whirl

I should have video of it up in a few days.

mc · Post by mc » 25 Oct 2008 18:43

ryan thomas has done this move, except ending on rake instead of clipper. on video, no less.

not saying it's the same move, but maybe he's done the one you did.

Sporatical_Distractions · Post by **Sporatical_Distractions** » 25 Oct 2008 22:22

Zoid Fs Nemesis set is possible. Here's a pulled attempt:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh3K_GUOaE8[/youtube]
Has anyone done this?

*the 4th dex isn't there

B_Man · Post by **B_Man** » 27 Oct 2008 09:58

I don't care if it's pulled, or if the 4th dex doesn't exist, or whatever. This made me have one of those "holy shit I can't believe I just saw that" laugh.

Thank you for making me laugh

.

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 27 Oct 2008 10:55

Even with the first dex pulled and the last dex non-existant, that set is still dope.

LEGOMAN · Post by **LEGOMAN** » 27 Oct 2008 12:45

i said "what the fuck kevin!" outloud. holy shit thats sick