Americans: Go Vote

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Nov 2008 15:57

mikep wrote:
Frank_Sinatra wrote:Nice avatar.
...
(re: jeremy's avatar)

Ack. pet peeve of mine. I hate when people are draped in the flag. It's not a cape or towel. Maybe I'm just old-school, but I feel that is an honor that should be reserved for the caskets of servicemen and women.

(rant mode off)

If that peeves you, you should probably try to avoid reading any future posts I may make about what I've done with the flag after tonight. I would say that feeling patriotic and sentimental towards a flag is fairly irrational, and have to confess that I have little respect for either the American flag or the Australian flag. They're symbols. It's not the flag that is important, it's what it represents. I also have a strong dislike for nationalism, and also think it's irrational (unless it involves cricket). While I was strongly in favour of Obama at this election, I was aware of how little influence I could have over the election, and buying and wearing the flag is mainly just taking the piss and adding to the fun of the celebrations. I always think it's good to only be serious about real things.

max · Post by **max** » 05 Nov 2008 16:37

Asmus wrote:This is worth being stoked about:

Actually it's pretty sad.

saw this while browsing this morning:

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 05 Nov 2008 16:41

[edit]

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 05 Nov 2008 16:51

Jeremy wrote:They're symbols. It's not the flag that is important, it's what it represents.

i think this is why he was talking about the coffins, the flag being a symbol of what they fought for and shouldn't be tarnished. actually, in america its illegal to leave the flag out in the rain or to deface it in anyway. i think the reason for that law was originally to honor the symbol and the people who fought for it. i dont really believe its right but i can understand dude's feelings about saving it for service men, but i also understand having fun (love the cape... its like youre captain america australian)

mannampepo · Post by **mannampepo** » 05 Nov 2008 17:08

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd34 ... 1225934058

yes we can... im not American but im black and of colored skin, it means alot to me to see Obama win.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY[/youtube]

we did it.

max · Post by **max** » 05 Nov 2008 18:50

Just to have a vague idea of how the world would have voted:

http://www.economist.com/vote2008/

(yes it's an internet-based vote so to be taken with a grain of salt although it's from a repsectable site)

Post by **Zac Miley** » 05 Nov 2008 19:39

lol, Iraq was for McCain.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Nov 2008 19:43

And Cuba...

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 05 Nov 2008 20:00

mannampepo wrote:im not American but im black and of colored skin

You're black AND of coloured skin? What are the odds of that!

mannampepo · Post by **mannampepo** » 05 Nov 2008 20:26

by that i mean im not full black,im half filipino.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Nov 2008 20:47

I find races fairly confusing.

Obama had a white mother and a black father, and that makes him black. Shouldn't it make him half black? If he had a black mother and a white father would that make him white? Do you just need a dark skin to be called black? What about a tan? How many generations from 1 black person and only white people would it take before a person could be considered "white" and not black? Like if Obama had kids with a white woman, would they be black? What if they had kids to a white person, and then their kids had kids to a white person?

I'm very afraid to say that I actually agreed with Janet Albrechtsen's blog about the issue, which I'm blaming on being hungover because usually everything she says is disgraceful.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/ ... after_all/

Basically anybody who voted for Obama based on his race is a racist. Not only do I agree, but what a trivial reason to vote for somebody. The same with McCain being a war hero. That kind of stuff doesn't in any way mean that somebody will be any better or worse at being a leader. Judge them on how they conduct themselves now and what their policies are. Not on meaningless issues like their race or what they were doing 50 years ago.

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 05 Nov 2008 20:54

Jeremy wrote:Obama had a white mother and a black father, and that makes him black. Shouldn't it make him half black? If he had a black mother and a white father would that make him white? Do you just need a dark skin to be called black? What about a tan? How many generations from 1 black person and only white people would it take before a person could be considered "white" and not black? Like if Obama had kids with a white woman, would they be black? What if they had kids to a white person, and then their kids had kids to a white person?

why not just call everyone "human" rather than using colors and mannerisms. that whole rant seems racist regaurdless if you meant to.

g00d33 · Post by **g00d33** » 05 Nov 2008 21:46

At my school, we held a mock election the day before the real one. On the ballot, it asked who you wanted for president, among two other poll questions. One question was "Do you want: (a) the american troops immediately withdrawn from Iraq (b) the troops to currently remain but a plan to be set forth for removal, or (c) the troops to remain in Iraq until all goals of war have been met"

My class counted the ballots and some of the responses truly showed the ignorance of many students. Several, if not many, students who voted for Obama also put down letter (c), which is a complete contradiction. Did these students truly know who they were voting for or were they just putting it just to put it? Is it fair to say that this may be the case with many people nationwide? I believe so. While it may not have changed the result of the election if people actually thought about what they were doing, it may have been much closer and more than the results being a landslide

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Nov 2008 22:13

PegLegHolly wrote:
Jeremy wrote:Obama had a white mother and a black father, and that makes him black. Shouldn't it make him half black? If he had a black mother and a white father would that make him white? Do you just need a dark skin to be called black? What about a tan? How many generations from 1 black person and only white people would it take before a person could be considered "white" and not black? Like if Obama had kids with a white woman, would they be black? What if they had kids to a white person, and then their kids had kids to a white person?
why not just call everyone "human" rather than using colors and mannerisms. that whole rant seems racist regaurdless if you meant to.

I don't understand. Can you explain how it's racist? In what way am I discriminating against people of a particular race?

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 05 Nov 2008 22:55

Clearly not racist. All he was implying is that since we originally came out of Africa there is no basis for any sort of race lines, since we're all just a bunch of mutts unless you're like Adolf and think that an alien race was spawned somewhere in the Himalaya's. The fact that Obama is considered black (Because his skin is black/brown) when he is in fact half white just raised the issue for Jeremy. In times passed race was easier to work with as one of the broader groupings for which to organize us to fight eachother, but with recent historical discovery's and increased acceptance of multi-racial families in society, national indentity has taken a bigger role.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 06 Nov 2008 02:30

peglegholly wrote: why not just call everyone "human" rather than using colors and mannerisms. that whole rant seems racist regaurdless if you meant to.

lol fail. If I can direct you to Jeremy's last paragraph.

Jeremy wrote: Judge them on how they conduct themselves now and what their policies are. Not on meaningless issues like their race or what they were doing 50 years ago.

Iain · Post by **Iain** » 06 Nov 2008 03:57

g00d33 wrote:My class counted the ballots and some of the responses truly showed the ignorance of many students. Several, if not many, students who voted for Obama also put down letter (c), which is a complete contradiction. Did these students truly know who they were voting for or were they just putting it just to put it? Is it fair to say that this may be the case with many people nationwide? I believe so. While it may not have changed the result of the election if people actually thought about what they were doing, it may have been much closer and more than the results being a landslide

it doesn't show contradiction because it's one issue.

mikep · Post by **mikep** » 06 Nov 2008 06:21

Jeremy wrote:... and buying and wearing the flag is mainly just taking the piss and adding to the fun of the celebrations. I always think it's good to only be serious about real things.

Oh, I totally misunderstood your intent! I guess I just think it's dumb when people think it's actually respectful somehow to wrap themselves in the flag.

I guess the Australian sense of humor is too advanced for me. Must be why I can't figure out how Yahoo Serious is funny.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 06 Nov 2008 06:25

This article in the NYTimes breaks down race in the election very nicely.

As for Jeremy's question about "what makes somebody black," I will point out that a person's race is largely about how other people perceive them. As recently as 50 years ago, some states in the South of the US actually quantified what percent of your bloodline made you black (I think in some states, if you were 1/8 black you were considered black). In reality though (then and now), your race is about how people perceive you. Tiger Woods is half black and half Thai, but is considered black. Obama is half white and half black, but considered black. I'm half Spanish and half Japanese, but people on the street probably usually mentally process me as being asian.

I think that over time, as races continue to mix in this country and across the world, racial classifications will become less rigid. For now though, people still use race as a mental shortcut, and will consider to group people into categories that are easy for them.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 06 Nov 2008 06:56

Iain wrote:
g00d33 wrote:My class counted the ballots and some of the responses truly showed the ignorance of many students. Several, if not many, students who voted for Obama also put down letter (c), which is a complete contradiction. Did these students truly know who they were voting for or were they just putting it just to put it? Is it fair to say that this may be the case with many people nationwide? I believe so. While it may not have changed the result of the election if people actually thought about what they were doing, it may have been much closer and more than the results being a landslide
it doesn't show contradiction because it's one issue.

Also your class is not representative of the electorate.