Saturday is a national day of protest.
Participating is as easy as writing 'bad california' on a chunk of
cardboard and sitting in front of your local city hall.
Find Your Protest Location
People are equal,
Religion is not government,
Rights are not subject to approval by the majority
Keith Olbermann gave his opinion on the matter last night on MSNBC
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY[/youtube]
National Protest Saturday Nov15
National Protest Saturday Nov15
Last edited by Tsiangkun on 11 Nov 2008 11:29, edited 3 times in total.
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BainbridgeShred
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Man I know if you wanted this discussed you would have put it in the discussion forum, but I just don't know how two people of the same sex wanting to go through some antiquated religious ceremony to affirm a love that shouldn't need affirmation anyways requires civil disobedience.
My personal posistion on the matter is about as convoluted as Sara Palin and Joe Biden's, but c'mon, gay marriage seems like an inevitability anyways so stop and think before you throw that brick.
My personal posistion on the matter is about as convoluted as Sara Palin and Joe Biden's, but c'mon, gay marriage seems like an inevitability anyways so stop and think before you throw that brick.
All the marches listed are peaceful events, nobody is planning on throwing any bricks.
Some of the smaller pickets taking place outside of LDS temples in the area have a higher risk of face to face conflict.
Nobody is advocating uncivil disobedience. Riots, urban vandalism, and violence will not help anybody. Refusing to let cars for a wedding into and out of your local LDS temple . . . perfectly civil, but disobedient.
Some of the smaller pickets taking place outside of LDS temples in the area have a higher risk of face to face conflict.
Nobody is advocating uncivil disobedience. Riots, urban vandalism, and violence will not help anybody. Refusing to let cars for a wedding into and out of your local LDS temple . . . perfectly civil, but disobedient.
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BainbridgeShred
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Why is stopping other people from getting married (Who might fully support the cause of gay marriage) an intelligent way to go about protesting the result of a popularly passed proposistion? I guess what I'm saying is that with my (Our?) generations incredible statistical support for gay marriage, why not just let the system work naturally without causing bad memories of peoples wedding days? The only way possible that gay marriage wont be recognized in the next 10-20 years would be to create a backlash and make regular people feel that the agenda is being pushed on them by "crazy gays preventing people from getting married". I fully understand the symbolic message of it but maybe we're just not there yet as a country.
Why LDS churches specifically? You might as well protest Bapist churches or Church or Christ institutions because as you say it was the black vote that turned this proposistion down. Mormons were probably a very insignifigant percentage of the vote.
Why LDS churches specifically? You might as well protest Bapist churches or Church or Christ institutions because as you say it was the black vote that turned this proposistion down. Mormons were probably a very insignifigant percentage of the vote.
September 20th
http://laist.com/2008/09/20/november_is ... d_both.php
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... ormon.html
And this site shows a break down of how much money came from in state or out of state for both pro and anti Prop 8 campaigns.
http://laist.com/2008/09/20/november_is ... d_both.php
October 9thAccording to one Mormon pro-Prop 8 website, around a third of all individual donations in California are coming from Mormons. And in cities such as Carlsbad, 98% of all pro-Prop money is coming from confirmed LDS donors, despite the fact that they make up only 2% of all Californians.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... ormon.html
Mormons have been active participants in the campaign both as volunteers and financial contributors, giving an estimated 43 percent — some $8.4 million — to the Proposition 8 campaign, according to the Web site mormonsfor8.com. ...Mormons from outside the state have been encouraged to give money and time to help pass the measure.
...
During Wednesday's taped satellite broadcast, church leaders asked for 30 members from each California congregation to donate four hours a week to the campaign. They also called on young married couples and single Mormons to use the Internet, text messaging, blogging and other forms of computer technology to help pass the initiative, saying the church has created a new Web site — PreservingMarriage.org — with materials they can download and post on their own social networking sites.
...
Along with recruiting Mormons to work in California, church members from outside the state have been asked to call friends and family at home in California to encourage support for the measure, according to Clayton. He said many students attending church-owned universities have asked how they might help and could be enlisted to make calls.
...
Its involvement in the California same-sex marriage debate this year began with a letter from church President Thomas S. Monson asking California Mormons to give their time and money to pass Proposition 8. Monson's letter has been read repeatedly in Mormon churches, and opponents of the forthcoming initiative have credited LDS members with giving the Yes on 8 camp an edge in donations and volunteers.
And this site shows a break down of how much money came from in state or out of state for both pro and anti Prop 8 campaigns.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Emily Kulczyk
Emily Kulczyk
I went to the march. It was a great event. There were ZERO arrests.
Perfect!!
Remember, any violence or vandalism will not help.
News reports are underestimating the size of the crowd. Lots of people came right from work, so most had no signs. The crowd marched faster than normal, and was dense. My guy instinct says 5000, but I heard other people guessing as high as 8500, and news reports as sparse as 2000.
Sunday, people are demonstrating in Sacramento.
Perfect!!
Remember, any violence or vandalism will not help.
News reports are underestimating the size of the crowd. Lots of people came right from work, so most had no signs. The crowd marched faster than normal, and was dense. My guy instinct says 5000, but I heard other people guessing as high as 8500, and news reports as sparse as 2000.
Sunday, people are demonstrating in Sacramento.
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QuantumBalance
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800 people lined up in Oakland today for a peaceful demonstration at the mormon temple. The oakland police did a great job of letting the people crowd the street, and assisted the demonstration by closing two freeway exits.
Fundamentally, Prop 8 is about rights. The ballot said "Eliminates right of", and "Changes California Constitution to eliminate the right of". In the America I want to live in, that alone is reason to stand in the streets and protest. Rights are NOT subject to the whims of the voter.
Equal Rights is an essential part of the American dream.
November 15 is a national day of protest,
Demonstrate against rule by majority approval at an event near you !
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richardabshire
- Fearless
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- Joined: 07 Nov 2003 19:27
- Location: San Diego, California
Saturday is a national day of protest.
Participating is as easy as writing 'bad california' on a chunk of
cardboard and sitting in front of your local city hall.
Find Your Protest Location
People are equal,
Religion is not government,
Rights are not subject to approval by the majority
Keith Olbermann gave his opinion on the matter last night on MSNBC
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY[/youtube]
Participating is as easy as writing 'bad california' on a chunk of
cardboard and sitting in front of your local city hall.
Find Your Protest Location
People are equal,
Religion is not government,
Rights are not subject to approval by the majority
Keith Olbermann gave his opinion on the matter last night on MSNBC
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY[/youtube]
I like this:
(even though there should be a comma after "belief" -- you didn't ask someone to proof read it before making it into a billboard?)
Somehow it made me feel better after accidentally getting sucked in to reading a pro vs. anti prop 8 discussion online.
Yeah, I'll be at my local protest on Saturday.
I know a few people who voted in favor of prop 8. "It's just that Marriage should be between a man and a woman." It's so frustrating that this issue seems to be about the word marriage for so many people.
I don't know the way state and federal legal stuff works well enough to know what can actually be done about prop 8 now, do you Cameron?
(even though there should be a comma after "belief" -- you didn't ask someone to proof read it before making it into a billboard?)
Somehow it made me feel better after accidentally getting sucked in to reading a pro vs. anti prop 8 discussion online.
Yeah, I'll be at my local protest on Saturday.
I know a few people who voted in favor of prop 8. "It's just that Marriage should be between a man and a woman." It's so frustrating that this issue seems to be about the word marriage for so many people.
I don't know the way state and federal legal stuff works well enough to know what can actually be done about prop 8 now, do you Cameron?
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Emily Kulczyk
Emily Kulczyk
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BainbridgeShred
- Post Master General
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Just to diversify the discourse, here's one of those uncultured mud people who voted for prop 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIUZlzd37sI
In all seriousness though you really got your protest game on. Some quite large ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIUZlzd37sI
In all seriousness though you really got your protest game on. Some quite large ones.
Yeah, these events are all being organized guerilla style through blogs, social sites, and email. The numbers have been very impressive.
Just to make things interesting, ANONYMOUS has joined the demonstrations Saturday, announcing their own event outside of the church of scientology after the rally at the civic center in SF.
If you aren't down for getting up at 10AM, get your mask on and head to the CoS at 2:00.
California has shown us that Americans do not recognize their individual religious beliefs are not the basis for legal and constitutional structure. Civil rights should never, ever, be put to a public vote for approval.
Just to make things interesting, ANONYMOUS has joined the demonstrations Saturday, announcing their own event outside of the church of scientology after the rally at the civic center in SF.
If you aren't down for getting up at 10AM, get your mask on and head to the CoS at 2:00.
California has shown us that Americans do not recognize their individual religious beliefs are not the basis for legal and constitutional structure. Civil rights should never, ever, be put to a public vote for approval.
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BainbridgeShred
- Post Master General
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- Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Was watching O'Reily last night playing footage of some church in Michigan where a bunch of people stood up during a ceremony and started yelling and throwing pamplets and making out with each other. One thing he said that kind of surprised me was that "The moderate gay right's activists are completely appalled by this", but honestly I'm not so sure about that anymore, and if there is a section of the gay rights movement that is genuinely taken aback by this, it's probably quite small.
For all the talk about rights however, gay activists have a pretty easy time shitting on state rights, the rights of the majority, and the right of hetero's to find happiness together. The idea that marriage is a "civil right" anyways, and not an socially and legally defined benefit of the state, only diffuses what true civil rights are, and adds an element of vitriol that doesn't belong in the argument. If marriage truely is a civil right, then gays already have it because they remain free to have marriage ceremonies with same sex partners; simply without the recognition of the state. It isn't like the people who got married prior to prop 8 are going to be incarcerated or forced to leave the state if they continue to call themselves married.
Also, the whole idea of trying to draw parellel's between this nonsense and the african-american civil rights movement is morally doing a disservice to the people who got spit on, had dogs sicked on them, took billy clubs to the head, got hit with fire hoses, had boiling water poured on them, and had to march by mock lynching's. Just because a bunch of rich yuppie homosexual's and people who want to feel like they're doing some good for mankind want to disregard states rights so that everyone can get their way doesn't mean that gay's are being held back in society or having their "right"s taken away. As far as I can tell the only one trying to strip rights from people would be the gay activists themselves.
Pretty easy to go after the white, rich Mormon's as the villian's in this issue, and not the downtrodden Baptist church congregation who find homosexuality abhorent.
Sigh, it's this culture that everyone should get their way and everyone can be made happy that scares me. Gay's no longer face insitutional discrimination in this country, and as I said before the only way gay's wont have state recognized marriages in 20 years is if you can create a backlash by being pricks. Alright fini.
For all the talk about rights however, gay activists have a pretty easy time shitting on state rights, the rights of the majority, and the right of hetero's to find happiness together. The idea that marriage is a "civil right" anyways, and not an socially and legally defined benefit of the state, only diffuses what true civil rights are, and adds an element of vitriol that doesn't belong in the argument. If marriage truely is a civil right, then gays already have it because they remain free to have marriage ceremonies with same sex partners; simply without the recognition of the state. It isn't like the people who got married prior to prop 8 are going to be incarcerated or forced to leave the state if they continue to call themselves married.
Also, the whole idea of trying to draw parellel's between this nonsense and the african-american civil rights movement is morally doing a disservice to the people who got spit on, had dogs sicked on them, took billy clubs to the head, got hit with fire hoses, had boiling water poured on them, and had to march by mock lynching's. Just because a bunch of rich yuppie homosexual's and people who want to feel like they're doing some good for mankind want to disregard states rights so that everyone can get their way doesn't mean that gay's are being held back in society or having their "right"s taken away. As far as I can tell the only one trying to strip rights from people would be the gay activists themselves.
Pretty easy to go after the white, rich Mormon's as the villian's in this issue, and not the downtrodden Baptist church congregation who find homosexuality abhorent.
Sigh, it's this culture that everyone should get their way and everyone can be made happy that scares me. Gay's no longer face insitutional discrimination in this country, and as I said before the only way gay's wont have state recognized marriages in 20 years is if you can create a backlash by being pricks. Alright fini.
Failure to separate religion from government will destroy both. The ONLY justification for proposition 8 is religious condemnation of the non-religious.
There is no right to majority rule. The framers of our constitution went out of their way to ensure minority groups would have full freedom, full liberty, and full protection under the law. Rights are not subject to majority approval. California let the voters decide the rights of a group of people. This is an assault on American values.
The civil union carries no federal protection of equal rights across state lines. A marriage license does. It's not a religious thing, the piece of paper is called a marriage license. The government issues the marriage license, not the church. The issue is a failure to separate the church and state. Because the laws are written around the word marriage, there are 1200 rights for married couples that aren't guaranteed to people with a civil union.
America is supposed to be better than this.
There is no right to majority rule. The framers of our constitution went out of their way to ensure minority groups would have full freedom, full liberty, and full protection under the law. Rights are not subject to majority approval. California let the voters decide the rights of a group of people. This is an assault on American values.
The civil union carries no federal protection of equal rights across state lines. A marriage license does. It's not a religious thing, the piece of paper is called a marriage license. The government issues the marriage license, not the church. The issue is a failure to separate the church and state. Because the laws are written around the word marriage, there are 1200 rights for married couples that aren't guaranteed to people with a civil union.
America is supposed to be better than this.