Does science condradict faith?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 02 Feb 2009 15:40

Fantastic essay by Jerry Coyne;

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/coyne09 ... index.html

You'll need to follow this second link to read the actual essay;

http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id= ... e381a70472

The best thing about this essay though is the discussion afterwards from the first link - where a large number of leading academics respond to the essay including Lawrence Krauss, Daniel Gilbert, Daniel Dennett, both the authors criticised in the original essay and finally (so far) Sam Harris.

Sam Harris easily steals the show, but you have to read the entire essay and all the responses to appreciate it. Anyway opinions on the topic question or the essay and responses would be awesome.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 03 Feb 2009 07:49

I didn't see any opinions after the article. Good one anyway.

A time machine would be great. It would likely prove Darwin right pretty fast. Then the non-believer could be strapped into the machine, forced to watch their divine creation devolve into beasts.

You can simulate evolution of learning with basic AI software, to a degree.Unexpected emergent features or abilities can surface un-expectedly.
Or you could go the ghou-ish route, and inject with drugs, or genetically manipulate animal, or human subjects to age and mature rapidly, thus decreasing the amount of time required to go thru hundreds or thousands of generations.
Software would be cheaper.

Religion should just be spun by whomever is in power to fit the science as necessary.

U.S., Bulgaria, Latvia, Turkey - Leaders of science.

-hds

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Feb 2009 13:02

If you click the top link I posted and then scroll down to "the reality club" you'll see all the responses

I like your comment about "the leaders of science" although I'm not sure I understand. The US is easily the world leader in science.

Somewhat related to this issue, there is a new book by Phil Zuckerman called; Society without God: What the least religious nations can tell us about contentment. It sounds really good. I especially liked this review from Christianity Today;

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... ml?start=1

What does it profit a society if, as this book's jacket notes, it gains "excellent educational systems, strong economies, well-supported arts, free health care, egalitarian social policies, outstanding bike paths, and great beer," but loses its soul?

It's a tough choice - great beer and strong social values or an imaginary concept? I think I've already made my choice, and make it again every weekend.

PoisonTaffy · Post by **PoisonTaffy** » 03 Feb 2009 15:01

I haven't read the article yet, but it's on my 'to read' list, especially because I have a formed opinion on the matter which I'd like to challenge or augment.

However, I too was curious about "the leaders of science" comment. That could be a topic of discussion on its own. How did you come up with those names? How do you quantify this? Do you make a distinction between technology and science?I believe that different measurement methods will yield very different results.

For example, I know that my country (Israel), is be among the leaders in almost any 'per capita' measurement that is related to science (I looked up scientific papers per capita, scientists per capita and patents per capita), while the U.S will usually occupy a surprisingly mediocre position.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Feb 2009 16:20

I think on an issue like "the leading countries in science" it's far more accurate to look at things in real terms, not relative terms. A very small country that has a high per capita number of scientists actually still makes a very small contribution to science and scientific knowledge. Likewise, although funding for science in the US has lagged a lot lately, it's still the biggest contributor to science in the world. In no way am I suggesting that this means the US shouldn't do more - and it's great to see Obama making this a priority. It's obvious that the biggest Western country spends the most amount of money and gets the most results on any issue. If we count the EU as one country I think it does slightly better, and has a bigger population, so again - no surprises.

There's an interesting interview with John Marburger (who was the science advisor to GWB) here;

http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2009/0 ... _storm.php

Of course he puts a lot of spin on his answers, but I found that to be fairly transparent.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 06 Feb 2009 07:04

It was kinda a joke. Looks like you got it. Those were the 4 countries with the most people who believe in creationism, according the the article's poll/research.

-hds