All too often I hear of people complaining about working. For example, I often hear about having to stand in the kitchen for long hours on end. I don't currently have a job, because I am a sophomore in high school and play a sport all three seasons, but am constantly told that I'm lazy for not working. When I think about this, it really makes me angry to think that they complain about trivial things such as standing for long hours on end, but they could never endure the hard conditioning that athletes undergo in order to pursue their passion. I understand where they are coming from, because I understand that physical labor day after day is harsh on the body, but the closed-mindedness is what really makes me angry.
I'm assuming that most of us on Modified have either played an organized sport or have/have had a job, so I was wondering if anyone has similar/ contrasting views about this.
Organized Sports and Work.
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james_dean
- space cowboy
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Have you worked full time before? Not being condescending, genuinely asking.
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Blue_turnip
- Egyptian Footgod
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- Joined: 29 Nov 2004 03:55
- Location: Melbourne
Playing sports are so much easier psychologically than just standing up working in some place for a whole day.
Coincidentally, I just got back from this national youth week thing where I got payed to basically stand there playing footbag for 4 hours straight, by myself. It was definately the most hardcore footbag sesh I have ever had. But damn it was so much better than standing in that store where I used to work. It was a lot tougher physically, but when you're playing sport you feel that you a working towards something. Standing in a kitchen is monotonous and boring.
I don't think you're lazy for not having a job. Noone is obligated to do any work unless they want to. If you don't want money and don't need it because you're living with your parents then it is totally cool.
Coincidentally, I just got back from this national youth week thing where I got payed to basically stand there playing footbag for 4 hours straight, by myself. It was definately the most hardcore footbag sesh I have ever had. But damn it was so much better than standing in that store where I used to work. It was a lot tougher physically, but when you're playing sport you feel that you a working towards something. Standing in a kitchen is monotonous and boring.
I don't think you're lazy for not having a job. Noone is obligated to do any work unless they want to. If you don't want money and don't need it because you're living with your parents then it is totally cool.
Oliver Adams
I obviously can't speak from your friends / families perspective, but I wouldn't use the word "lazy" in the general sense of the term.
Think about it this way.
You wake up at 7:00 am, drive to work for 7:45, work from 8:00 am until 12:00 pm. You eat a quick lunch with no socializing or communication until 12:30, and without any "digestion" time, you get back to work until 5:30. At this point you have the chance of driving home, when you arrive at 6:15 or you are the lucky one who has to work a 12 hour shift, getting home at 8:45 pm. You then get home, prepare a meal of any sort, consume and that takes another 30+ minutes. Either way, when you get home, shower and are "done" from work at 7:15->9:30, you are then free to your 'personal' time.
I am referencing this to a job as a mechanic, landscaper, and hospital employee. I can say that the hospital employee work layout is what you describe as "standing on your feet and walking every now and then". Have you went Christmas shopping with your entire family, and it took 3 hours? Do you remember that feeling of your feet just wanting to sit, and your sister is taking her sweet ass time in the 18th store to find that perfect gift, and you just want to get home because you don't care? Well, work, is about that same experience for 8+ hours each day.
When you get home from such an experience, say on the "7:15 pm" day, your feet don't want to do a sport. You want to sit for a bit, relax, and turn your mind off from running all day. Then you try to get good at footbag, or your other sport, and play for a few hours. You never have a "great" session because you're mentally and partially physically drained.
So, yeah. Every summer in highschool I worked full time, and every single day after work I played footbag for minimum 1 hour. When you get back to school, and you had next to NO time for 'yourself', you can begin to understand the position of your friends and family. Waking up, working, having those precious few hours for yourself, sleeping *rpt for months on end... Versus when you play a sport, which is basically time for yourself for maximum 5 hours a day, (not 8+) and then go home and play video games, and have your mom cook and drive you to and from...
Obviously if you are playing an intense sport for multiple hours a day, you are not lazy in the sense that you aren't 500 pounds and playing world of warcraft. However, you could be called 'lazy' by people who are working all day, and have virtually no time for luxury anymore, and then they hear that you have all the time in the world. It is more of a jealous thing than anything else, in my opinion.
On this note, respect your parents for working now. When they go to work, they are working 90% of the time for you and having a family, to come home, and then do more work for you. They truly give up their lives for you; and you can't appreciate that feeling until you have had a full time job for months on end, and even then I am sure you can't fully appreciate the amount of sacrifice.
Think about it this way.
You wake up at 7:00 am, drive to work for 7:45, work from 8:00 am until 12:00 pm. You eat a quick lunch with no socializing or communication until 12:30, and without any "digestion" time, you get back to work until 5:30. At this point you have the chance of driving home, when you arrive at 6:15 or you are the lucky one who has to work a 12 hour shift, getting home at 8:45 pm. You then get home, prepare a meal of any sort, consume and that takes another 30+ minutes. Either way, when you get home, shower and are "done" from work at 7:15->9:30, you are then free to your 'personal' time.
I am referencing this to a job as a mechanic, landscaper, and hospital employee. I can say that the hospital employee work layout is what you describe as "standing on your feet and walking every now and then". Have you went Christmas shopping with your entire family, and it took 3 hours? Do you remember that feeling of your feet just wanting to sit, and your sister is taking her sweet ass time in the 18th store to find that perfect gift, and you just want to get home because you don't care? Well, work, is about that same experience for 8+ hours each day.
When you get home from such an experience, say on the "7:15 pm" day, your feet don't want to do a sport. You want to sit for a bit, relax, and turn your mind off from running all day. Then you try to get good at footbag, or your other sport, and play for a few hours. You never have a "great" session because you're mentally and partially physically drained.
So, yeah. Every summer in highschool I worked full time, and every single day after work I played footbag for minimum 1 hour. When you get back to school, and you had next to NO time for 'yourself', you can begin to understand the position of your friends and family. Waking up, working, having those precious few hours for yourself, sleeping *rpt for months on end... Versus when you play a sport, which is basically time for yourself for maximum 5 hours a day, (not 8+) and then go home and play video games, and have your mom cook and drive you to and from...
Obviously if you are playing an intense sport for multiple hours a day, you are not lazy in the sense that you aren't 500 pounds and playing world of warcraft. However, you could be called 'lazy' by people who are working all day, and have virtually no time for luxury anymore, and then they hear that you have all the time in the world. It is more of a jealous thing than anything else, in my opinion.
On this note, respect your parents for working now. When they go to work, they are working 90% of the time for you and having a family, to come home, and then do more work for you. They truly give up their lives for you; and you can't appreciate that feeling until you have had a full time job for months on end, and even then I am sure you can't fully appreciate the amount of sacrifice.
Jay Boychuk
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Blue_turnip
- Egyptian Footgod
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I'm sending this to the hall of fame.jay7 wrote:Obviously if you are playing an intense sport for multiple hours a day, you are not lazy in the sense that you aren't 500 pounds and playing world of warcraft.
I'm going to piss everyone off and say that having kids is a retarded idea.jay7 wrote:On this note, respect your parents for working now. When they go to work, they are working 90% of the time for you and having a family, to come home, and then do more work for you. They truly give up their lives for you; and you can't appreciate that feeling until you have had a full time job for months on end, and even then I am sure you can't fully appreciate the amount of sacrifice.
Oliver Adams
I am currently working 40 hour weeks at Tim Hortons, and part time at Blacks photography as well. Rushing around for 8 hours to serve customers with only two 15 minute breaks can be exhausting.
Today will be my 24th day straight working (only a couple more to go, yay
), so needless to say footbag has sort of been put on the back burner. I've played a few times, but rarely have the energy to shred for more than half an hour. In comparison to the 3-4 sessions a week I was having before that lasted upwards of two hours.
I am really looking forward to going back to school because although I will be even busier, it is much easier to play hacky sack, or some other sport, after sitting for 12 hours than it is after working on your feet for 8.
Today will be my 24th day straight working (only a couple more to go, yay
), so needless to say footbag has sort of been put on the back burner. I've played a few times, but rarely have the energy to shred for more than half an hour. In comparison to the 3-4 sessions a week I was having before that lasted upwards of two hours.I am really looking forward to going back to school because although I will be even busier, it is much easier to play hacky sack, or some other sport, after sitting for 12 hours than it is after working on your feet for 8.
As Jay so aptly put it, their are two kinds of lazy.
"Physically lazy" - you don't like to move around much. Slow to rise, not in good shape.
"Mentally Lazy"- when you don't want to do anything that is not immediately enjoyable (work, clean, study). Sports are usually enjoyable. If they aren't well...why would you play?
"Physically lazy" - you don't like to move around much. Slow to rise, not in good shape.
"Mentally Lazy"- when you don't want to do anything that is not immediately enjoyable (work, clean, study). Sports are usually enjoyable. If they aren't well...why would you play?
Personally, I have not worked a full time job, but I'm sure students know what it's like to be up at 6:30 in the morning, to be at school on time. Then they have to sit around with information being crammed into their head from 7:30AM to 2:30PM, with only a 30-45 minute lunch for down time, which I find is physically and mentally draining, like a long car ride. Then they have to go to practice from 2:30PM to 6:30/7:00PM, go home, and do more homework. By the time I'm done with all this, I'm usually in bed by 11:30-12:00 with no personal time.
I don't mean to complain about this, because I choose to do this, and I'm sorry if I didn't clarify enough in the first post, but I'm not saying that I'm angered by the complaints. I have all the respect in the world for those working to support themselves and their families. The lack of perspective is the angering part.
I don't mean to complain about this, because I choose to do this, and I'm sorry if I didn't clarify enough in the first post, but I'm not saying that I'm angered by the complaints. I have all the respect in the world for those working to support themselves and their families. The lack of perspective is the angering part.
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Blue_turnip
- Egyptian Footgod
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james_dean
- space cowboy
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I'm not sure I understand - whose lack of perspective are you complaining about?
Have these people that complain about working and playing sport never studied, because if they've done both and are saying its hard to work and play sport, they would be making an informed decision. I'm not sure why you wouldn't take their word for it given that you don't have as much experience with both situations.
Having done both I'd certainly agree that working 8:30 to 5pm, even in a job that isn't as challenging as the study I have done, is far more draining than studying similar hours. Furthermore, when studying you have pretty large breaks during the year, while people working full-time do it day in day out for longer stretches with shorter hollidays.
I think when you have the experience yourself you'll find the same thing that the vast majority of other people find - unless you're one of the few people who are lucky enough to get the perfect job.
Have these people that complain about working and playing sport never studied, because if they've done both and are saying its hard to work and play sport, they would be making an informed decision. I'm not sure why you wouldn't take their word for it given that you don't have as much experience with both situations.
Having done both I'd certainly agree that working 8:30 to 5pm, even in a job that isn't as challenging as the study I have done, is far more draining than studying similar hours. Furthermore, when studying you have pretty large breaks during the year, while people working full-time do it day in day out for longer stretches with shorter hollidays.
I think when you have the experience yourself you'll find the same thing that the vast majority of other people find - unless you're one of the few people who are lucky enough to get the perfect job.
Who wears short shorts?
Dylan Govender.
Dylan Govender.
I've played a number of sports at semi elite level.
Most notably I when I played touch football at a national level. The first year I played we had a 6 month fitness program and my week went like this;
First 3 months
Monday - run 10km
Tuesday to Friday - run 5km or different reps of 800m to 200m.
Saturday - 6 hour skills training (including lunch break) - every third week this training session was 3 hours drive away - resulting in a 5am wake up.
Sunday - rest day.
Second 3 months
Monday to Friday - sprint training. This was way harder than the anaerobic training - it was things like 8 consecutive 200m sprints with a job back to the starting point recovery.
Saturday - 6 hour skills training.
Sunday - Rest day.
After that training regime we went to the U16 nationals. The best result my state (Tasmania) had ever received in any national touch football tournament was 2nd last. We finished 3rd and won the bronze medal. We are still the only Tasmanian touch football team ever to win a medal at a nationals event.
All that hard work and effort in the 6 month build up to the 5 day tournament was easily worth it. That's by far the highlight of my sporting career, and in the top 3 most important events in my life.
A few years later I spent 3 months working in a very shit job as a kitchen hand just to pay to go to another such tournament and as soon as I had the money to attend I quit.
I play sport for a hundred different reasons, but ultimately because I love it and can't imagine my life without it. I am happy to pay money to play sport.
While there are many things I like about my current job, and especially the fact that I'm working for an environmental NGO that I feel is making a real and important contribution to environmental protection in Australia, ultimately I work because I need the money to live and to do the things I want to be doing. I would never pay money to work. If I had enough money I would almost certainly not work. Working is not something people do because they enjoy it (at least the ones complaining) - it's something they do as a means to an ends. The ends might be playing sport, or it might be taking a girl out to dinner or buying a new video game. It allows you the freedom to do things you want to do, but it's not something that people want to do in itself.
Sport is different. Sport is something people do because they love doing it. They're not trying to use it to achieve something different. The reason winning bronze at nationals was so important to me is because of the massive amount of effort that went into it. If we had have just rocked up with a few weeks training and got the same result it wouldn't have any significance - it's the ends that made the event so important, it was the means.
It's all the hard work and effort that makes sport significant. It's the process, not the results.
On the other hand, working in a job you don't like is only about the ends - the process is meaningless. I don't come home from a 12 hour shift at work and think "wow I'm exhausted but I did an awesome job and I feel great anyway."
Lets not forget of course, physical exercise releases endorphins and other drugs into your brain. Hours spent working at a computer or in a kitchen does not.
Most notably I when I played touch football at a national level. The first year I played we had a 6 month fitness program and my week went like this;
First 3 months
Monday - run 10km
Tuesday to Friday - run 5km or different reps of 800m to 200m.
Saturday - 6 hour skills training (including lunch break) - every third week this training session was 3 hours drive away - resulting in a 5am wake up.
Sunday - rest day.
Second 3 months
Monday to Friday - sprint training. This was way harder than the anaerobic training - it was things like 8 consecutive 200m sprints with a job back to the starting point recovery.
Saturday - 6 hour skills training.
Sunday - Rest day.
After that training regime we went to the U16 nationals. The best result my state (Tasmania) had ever received in any national touch football tournament was 2nd last. We finished 3rd and won the bronze medal. We are still the only Tasmanian touch football team ever to win a medal at a nationals event.
All that hard work and effort in the 6 month build up to the 5 day tournament was easily worth it. That's by far the highlight of my sporting career, and in the top 3 most important events in my life.
A few years later I spent 3 months working in a very shit job as a kitchen hand just to pay to go to another such tournament and as soon as I had the money to attend I quit.
I play sport for a hundred different reasons, but ultimately because I love it and can't imagine my life without it. I am happy to pay money to play sport.
While there are many things I like about my current job, and especially the fact that I'm working for an environmental NGO that I feel is making a real and important contribution to environmental protection in Australia, ultimately I work because I need the money to live and to do the things I want to be doing. I would never pay money to work. If I had enough money I would almost certainly not work. Working is not something people do because they enjoy it (at least the ones complaining) - it's something they do as a means to an ends. The ends might be playing sport, or it might be taking a girl out to dinner or buying a new video game. It allows you the freedom to do things you want to do, but it's not something that people want to do in itself.
Sport is different. Sport is something people do because they love doing it. They're not trying to use it to achieve something different. The reason winning bronze at nationals was so important to me is because of the massive amount of effort that went into it. If we had have just rocked up with a few weeks training and got the same result it wouldn't have any significance - it's the ends that made the event so important, it was the means.
It's all the hard work and effort that makes sport significant. It's the process, not the results.
On the other hand, working in a job you don't like is only about the ends - the process is meaningless. I don't come home from a 12 hour shift at work and think "wow I'm exhausted but I did an awesome job and I feel great anyway."
Lets not forget of course, physical exercise releases endorphins and other drugs into your brain. Hours spent working at a computer or in a kitchen does not.
(no edit button)
For those that say sports = fun, it depends on the sport and it depends on the competitive level you are at. Generally, the better you get at something, the more you care about how well you do.
For the last 3 years I did judo I was a state champion and at the highest national competitive level and the stress was unbearable. For me, footbag seemed like an easy way out of it.
I'm not sure what sport Gary plays, but I believe he is right about how a minimum wage job seems trivial compared to something you can feel happy about the rest of your life and tell to your grandkids.
For those that say sports = fun, it depends on the sport and it depends on the competitive level you are at. Generally, the better you get at something, the more you care about how well you do.
For the last 3 years I did judo I was a state champion and at the highest national competitive level and the stress was unbearable. For me, footbag seemed like an easy way out of it.
I'm not sure what sport Gary plays, but I believe he is right about how a minimum wage job seems trivial compared to something you can feel happy about the rest of your life and tell to your grandkids.
Well said. "Fun" is not an accurate word to describe sport. Running until you vomit isn't fun, but it's doesn't always feel bad either.
Most jobs are trivial compared to serious sport, and that's why people complain about their jobs - they're doing something that means very little to them just for the money. If you played sport for the same reason you may well feel the same way.
Most jobs are trivial compared to serious sport, and that's why people complain about their jobs - they're doing something that means very little to them just for the money. If you played sport for the same reason you may well feel the same way.
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BainbridgeShred
- Post Master General
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I think sport is definitely a selfish and trivial pursuit - but so are pretty much all forms of recreation. This is the main reason I no longer participate in high level sport of any kind. Of course I still see value in sport and I'm using those words literally, not as general degrading words. I mean that sport is always (even team sports) focused on yourself and your own abilities, the benefits are mainly only about yourself and there are many things in the world that are a lot more worthy of our concern than sport. Spending time on your own development and worrying about unimportant issues is not necessarily a bad thing and can have emergent values greater than the discrete value of the activity.
I disagree that it's a waste of time. I don't really understand what that phrase really means. There are obviously many social and health benefits from playing sport. Even if there weren't, I still wouldn't see it as a waste of time. When people say activities are a "waste of time," I think what they really mean is that they personally don't see the benefit of the activity. One could just as easily say that music or art is a waste of time. It's like all those people who tell you that you've got too much time on your hands because of your footbag abilities. It has nothing to do with me having more time than other people, but completely that I value playing footbag more than I value things like watching TV or playing video games - and so I prioritise footbag ahead of those things. Lots of people may suggest that studying linguistics is a waste of time that hasn't contributed very much to the advancement of society. They'd probably be wrong too (I don't know), but just can't see the value in it.
I don't know about the aggression thing - I'd really need to some studies. I can only comment on my own personal experiences, which I accept should not be viewed as meaningful evidence. While a number of coaches, especially in contact sports like Australian Rules Football, have been very strong advocates of aggression against the opposition and trying to hurt them as much as possible, I've always wanted to be as skillfull as possible, not as violent, and I've always respected skill from players on both sides. I've made a lot of friends with people I've always played sport against - and of course we have very strong rivalries on the field, but also a lot of respect and it's why we're friends. Of course I've done things in sport that I'm ashamed about, and been in a few fights but those are hardly common for me. It's much more common (especially in touch football) that the referee will make a mistake in our favour and I'll correct them - although touch is a game with an explicit focus on honesty.
So playing sport hasn't made me aggressive towards opponents - although I do some people who are. I'm not sure we can say that sport made them that way though.
I think with most sports origins being English public school boys (as in upper class private schools) it's hard to imagine that it had any kind of conscious decision has ever been made to play or promote sport in order to train kids to be aggressive towards other people. I find it much more likely that Chomesky's opinions are not based on any scientific evidence, but just on his own experiences with sport, which are probably negative.
Of course this is a deconstructionist argument that I despise and hopefully it's completely invalid, but I don't have anything to go on apart from your post.
There is a good essay by Jon Haidt that talks a little about sport, but is actually about the benefits of religion. I'll dig it up.
I disagree that it's a waste of time. I don't really understand what that phrase really means. There are obviously many social and health benefits from playing sport. Even if there weren't, I still wouldn't see it as a waste of time. When people say activities are a "waste of time," I think what they really mean is that they personally don't see the benefit of the activity. One could just as easily say that music or art is a waste of time. It's like all those people who tell you that you've got too much time on your hands because of your footbag abilities. It has nothing to do with me having more time than other people, but completely that I value playing footbag more than I value things like watching TV or playing video games - and so I prioritise footbag ahead of those things. Lots of people may suggest that studying linguistics is a waste of time that hasn't contributed very much to the advancement of society. They'd probably be wrong too (I don't know), but just can't see the value in it.
I don't know about the aggression thing - I'd really need to some studies. I can only comment on my own personal experiences, which I accept should not be viewed as meaningful evidence. While a number of coaches, especially in contact sports like Australian Rules Football, have been very strong advocates of aggression against the opposition and trying to hurt them as much as possible, I've always wanted to be as skillfull as possible, not as violent, and I've always respected skill from players on both sides. I've made a lot of friends with people I've always played sport against - and of course we have very strong rivalries on the field, but also a lot of respect and it's why we're friends. Of course I've done things in sport that I'm ashamed about, and been in a few fights but those are hardly common for me. It's much more common (especially in touch football) that the referee will make a mistake in our favour and I'll correct them - although touch is a game with an explicit focus on honesty.
So playing sport hasn't made me aggressive towards opponents - although I do some people who are. I'm not sure we can say that sport made them that way though.
I think with most sports origins being English public school boys (as in upper class private schools) it's hard to imagine that it had any kind of conscious decision has ever been made to play or promote sport in order to train kids to be aggressive towards other people. I find it much more likely that Chomesky's opinions are not based on any scientific evidence, but just on his own experiences with sport, which are probably negative.
Of course this is a deconstructionist argument that I despise and hopefully it's completely invalid, but I don't have anything to go on apart from your post.
There is a good essay by Jon Haidt that talks a little about sport, but is actually about the benefits of religion. I'll dig it up.
Take it from someone who has spent 9 hours a day in front of a computer for the past 10+ years.... work sucks!!!
If I had it my way I would play sports full time. I work as a Web Designer and every time I have to clip a professional sports figure out of a background I get jealous as hell that I didn't play sports harder growing up so that some other schmuck could be cutting out my picture.
If I had it my way I would play sports full time. I work as a Web Designer and every time I have to clip a professional sports figure out of a background I get jealous as hell that I didn't play sports harder growing up so that some other schmuck could be cutting out my picture.
Go out and shred already.
~Damon Mathews
~Damon Mathews
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james_dean
- space cowboy
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