Ban Kyle Permanently

mc · Post by mc » 06 Apr 2009 20:15

David,

Just because I don't look at or feed the troll doesn't mean that others won't.

I can control my actions and ignore the troll, but the troll WILL be fed. Not everyone will ignore him, and someone will respond.

Basically, you're making this suggestion:

"Everyone be the bigger man all the time."

While it's good to be the bigger man, it's simply not realistic to consider that as a solution to the problem.

While it might not be the best decision to respond to the troll, that decision is not nearly as reprehensible as the behavior of the troll himself.

If someone should go, or if someone should have to sacrifice, it shouldn't be those that can't resist the troll,

it should be the troll.

It saddens me that you're saddened, David.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 06 Apr 2009 20:30

david wrote:It really saddens me that you all spend your time worrying about such a silly thing. All you have to do is click ignore on his posts if you don't want to read them. You have the power to ban him already with that button.

I like all of you and think you are all smart. It is a waste of your talents and energies to post about things like this.

Click ignore then go read the Vasek Demo topic. Does the problem go away? Or should we also click ignore about all those other people as well?

I agree it's a trivial issue. I can't speak for other people but a large part of my job is writing data extraction queries and then waiting around while they run. These days 99% of my posts on modified are during this time.

Kyle Hewitt · Post by **Kyle Hewitt** » 07 Apr 2009 23:06

Jeremy wrote:
david wrote:It really saddens me that you all spend your time worrying about such a silly thing. All you have to do is click ignore on his posts if you don't want to read them. You have the power to ban him already with that button.

I like all of you and think you are all smart. It is a waste of your talents and energies to post about things like this.
Click ignore then go read the Vasek Demo topic. Does the problem go away? Or should we also click ignore about all those other people as well?

makes the topic look cooler imo. its like people angry but they have no clue why.

mc · Post by mc » 09 Apr 2009 22:10

any chance in getting a response to this from the mods?

I think that, when a user makes some valid points in a situation such as this, they should be addressed by the mods, whether the mods agree or not.

also, if you folks don't feel that his actions were ban-worthy,

to what level would he have to take this kind of behavior for him to cross the line?

Kyle Hewitt · Post by **Kyle Hewitt** » 09 Apr 2009 22:24

Matt Cross wrote:any chance in getting a response to this from the mods?

I think that, when a user makes some valid points in a situation such as this, they should be addressed by the mods, whether the mods agree or not.

also, if you folks don't feel that his actions were ban-worthy,

to what level would he have to take this kind of behavior for him to cross the line?

i dunno why dont you go ask your mom?

jk someone already pmed me saying if i dont stop trollin im going to get the BANHAMMER OF JUSTICE

brianbear · Post by **brianbear** » 10 Apr 2009 07:41

One big problem with Kyle's behavior that I haven't seen mentioned is that it gives modified a bad look!!! If you are a new to the forum and see posts from someone like Kyle, you might think we are a community of asssholes which is so far from the truth. Modified should be a welcoming place for new interested footbaggers to come check out without being offended!!!

Also, if you want to argue with him, use PMs. Don't clutter discussions with off topic attacks.

Zac Jackson · Post by **Zac Jackson** » 10 Apr 2009 10:07

brianbear wrote:
Also, if you want to argue with him, use PMs. Don't clutter discussions with off topic attacks.

this is the way its been done for along time, except with kyle, its accepted to attack him publicly

Iron Clad Ben · Post by **Iron Clad Ben** » 10 Apr 2009 12:06

Good guy to shred with and hang out in person, but on the internet? No. Clearly causing a lot of problems, and just telling everyone to ignore him clearly isn't working

EDIT: Furthermore I've had conversations with him in person where he talks about his love of trolling, and how he enjoys purposefully creating controversy on modified. I'm not saying that's a giant offense or anything, but if that's his take on it, we should ban him.

mc · Post by mc » 10 Apr 2009 12:10

Iron Clad Ben wrote: EDIT: Furthermore I've had conversations with him in person where he talks about his love of trolling, and how he enjoys purposefully creating controversy on modified. I'm not saying that's a giant offense or anything, but if that's his take on it, we should ban him.

+1

Kyle Hewitt · Post by **Kyle Hewitt** » 10 Apr 2009 18:42

u mad

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 11 Apr 2009 02:03

I'd be shocked if Kyle were permanently banned. I honestly don't think the mods do anything here on a daily basis anymore. It's like they check in once a month now or something. Also, the policies are just so funky and not congruent to one another. Like, no edit button in Discussion. Why? There are 2 words you can't say on this board, yet you can say things that most people would find much more vulgar, and there's basically no other censorship to what you can say as long as it's "on-topic" and in the right forum.

But despite the quirky rule structure, I was just thinking of how easy this forum is compared to most. I posted in the wrong forum on a Halo board and I got jumped on by 2 guys in about 10 minutes, and within an hour my thread was moved. Believe me, it's really obscure figuring out which forum to post in when you're asking a question about if a custom map is downloadable or not.

Kyle Hewitt · Post by **Kyle Hewitt** » 11 Apr 2009 10:37

whoops about the 3 posts

when did we have that convo ben

Iron Clad Ben · Post by **Iron Clad Ben** » 16 Apr 2009 20:45

Kyle Hewitt wrote:whoops about the 3 posts

when did we have that convo ben

In the car on the way to MFJ5, so that would have been a little over a year ago. I think at that point LEGOMAN had been banned, and you were planning his comeback.

Kyle Hewitt · Post by **Kyle Hewitt** » 18 Apr 2009 20:25

Iron Clad Ben wrote:
Kyle Hewitt wrote:whoops about the 3 posts

when did we have that convo ben
In the car on the way to MFJ5, so that would have been a little over a year ago. I think at that point LEGOMAN had been banned, and you were planning his comeback.

LEGOMAN was never banned at any time.

now the mods wont give me my LEGOMAN account back

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 27 Apr 2009 15:48

You know IE8 came out with an "ignore" button type solution for their crappy browser called the "compatibility" button. IE8 knew their Super Compliant browser would break layout on sites so they came up with this little gem as a fix all. They left it up to the user to fix the problem rather than the broken site builders fixing their broken sites. And this coming from a software giant.

Sound familiar?

BTW - Matt, my name is Damon Mathews. 1 "T" bro

Thanks,

ps. I did not vote - Kyle is just being Kyle. Suggest some counseling for the guy.... he WANTS to be banned. I know when I acted up, I was having personal issues at home. Not everything is how it seems, especially on the internet.

mc · Post by mc » 28 Apr 2009 07:08

I think it's unfortunate that a user can present reasonable, sensible information and opinions about a forum issue that needs some sort of resolution, and receive no response from the mods whatsoever.

I'm not saying the response should be positive or affirmative, but it should be something! "Hey, we've read what you said, and we don't agree with you, so we're not going to act", or "we've read what you said, and we do agree with you, so here's what we're going to do".

Either of those, or ANYTHING else from any of the people who've been called to action by my (in my opinion) reasonable assessment of another user and his effect on the modified community, would be great.

I want to know what happens when people act like Kyle has been acting. As far as I can tell, nothing happens when someone is consistently (and almost exclusively) disruptive for an extended period of time (years).

edit: grammar / phrasing
edit2: spelling

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 29 Apr 2009 18:37

I'll offer my .02.

First, I'll say that I absolutely think it would be the right thing to sit Kyle out for a while. If it were in my power, I'd ban him for a couple of weeks, see how it works out on his return, and then in all likelihood end up banning him for a couple of months. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I've been a mod here for a long time, and to the best of my memory, no action has ever been taken to correct anyone's behaviour so that everyone can enjoy a more peaceful and constructive environment. Honestly, it's a credit to the community that this place isn't an absolute madhouse. As I see it, there are two problems here:

The first is that the only person with any actual authority (read: power to suspend accounts) is Mike Hanson, who as far as I know hasn't looked at the forum in 35 years. No knock on Mike, but there needs to be someone(s) who is on the forum daily or close to it with the ability to do this sort of crap. The second is that many of the mods take this forum and their role and duty on this forum way too seriously. I hope this doesn't offend the quoted person, but take this from the mod forum a while back:

some mod wrote:I have no problem banning him but I'd like to be able to say clearly - here is where he broke the rules and was told - and here is where he disregarded the warnings.

I don't know exactly what kind of appeals court we have set up here, but honestly who the fuck cares about this crap? Exercise some judgement and make a decision that you feel is in the best interest of the forum's users.

shredzilla wrote:I honestly don't think the mods do anything here on a daily basis anymore. It's like they check in once a month now or something.

This too, for me anyways. I've read more of the forums in the past couple of days than I have in the past 6 months (going to a jam refreshes my interest). I can't speak for the other mods activity level on the forum, but if their activity in the mods section is any indication, none of us are particularly interested. I suspect that this is because most of the mods feel similarly to myself - that their input basically doesn't go anywhere.

An example of how things are done vs how I'd like to see them done: last night I came across a zero content post with a racial slur. I deleted it, PMed the offending user something like "No. Bad. Thanks." What I would like to do is to apply a 24 hr ban, leave the post up with the offencive bit replaced by some suitable red text, and an extra line of red text explaining that the user has been banned for a day for being rude and knowing better. Open and shut and serves as a demonstration for what is and is not acceptable behaviour. The explanatory red text would be copied into a sticky thread in this subforum as user X's rap sheet.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 30 Apr 2009 11:23

Colin wrote:The second is that many of the mods take this forum and their role and duty on this forum way too seriously. I hope this doesn't offend the quoted person, but take this from the mod forum a while back:

some mod wrote:I have no problem banning him but I'd like to be able to say clearly - here is where he broke the rules and was told - and here is where he disregarded the warnings.
I don't know exactly what kind of appeals court we have set up here, but honestly who the fuck cares about this crap? Exercise some judgement and make a decision that you feel is in the best interest of the forum's users.

Exactly. Its not like we'll all turn feral without the lawgivers around to bring order. If a mod can't intuitively grasp when someone should be banned, or a topic or post locked or deleted, then that person should stop being a mod.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Apr 2009 15:59

I disagree. I don't think it's got anything to do with "how seriously you take the forum" but merely empathy and a sense of justice towards everybody, including Kyle. I'm sure it would suck to be unfairly banned from a forum and it makes sense to have procedures and follow them. That sounds like an excuse for making decisions without having to be transparent with them. If you didn't take the forum "seriously" why would you even care if he's banned or not. His only offence really is not taking the forum seriously and mocking everybody. Although it's clearly not deliberate, you could easily see that as a more important contribution than many other people make here...

In relation to this topic, I think Kyle's behaviour has either improved dramatically recently, or he hasn't been posting at all, and a ban is perhaps no longer warranted.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 30 Apr 2009 19:29

We're talking about person X not having access to a hackysack forum for a couple of days, and after that maybe a couple of weeks. In the very worst cases a person might have to do without the forum for a few months. This would not, could not result from a misunderstanding, but only from giant "fuck you"s to the entire community.

There are no thumbscrews and this isn't a human rights issue.

Ban Kyle Permanently

ban?