HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!!!

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 04 Jul 2009 06:54

USA!! USA!!

everybody go out, eat some burgers n dogs, drink some forties of cheap, cold beer, shoot off some contraband fireworks, and run from the cops while urinating in public, cuz dammit thats your right as an AMERICAN!

they just dont make better countries than this.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 04 Jul 2009 09:37

Kobayashi VS Chestnut! Go USA

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 04 Jul 2009 10:08

Yeah, 68 dogs and buns in 10 minutes is insane.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 04 Jul 2009 10:21

Wish I didn't have strep throat. Those blunts and gin and tonic's last night certainly didn't help either. Have fun for me people stay safe

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 04 Jul 2009 14:37

America, FUCK YEAH!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnlMnf7t4t4[/youtube]

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 04 Jul 2009 15:54

It's like Jeremy and James are the same person!

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 04 Jul 2009 18:31

Happy 4th from DC. I met some cool hack buds and oddly a couple of freestylers, and showed off my awesome skillzzz at the Pot Rally. I had some sweet reggae to shred to all day. Then Fireworks on the Mall, then Five Guy's cheese dog with grilled onions, relish, mustard and hot sauce. Irie.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 04 Jul 2009 18:36

C-Fan wrote:Yeah, 68 dogs and buns in 10 minutes is insane.

that is awesome and disgusting. plus those guys are not even fat.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 Jul 2009 23:15

BainbridgeShred wrote:It's like Jeremy and James are the same person!

Didn't you write a long rant about nationalism just recently? Of course the US fought the second world war (and indeed the first world war) essentially against Nationalism (rather than "freedom" as is often claimed today). It's a shame that it's still so prevalent these days. Allan Haggett wrote a good little note on facebook a few years ago that he reposted for the recent Canada day that I think a lot of which applies well to Australia and the US.

Of course I still celebrate Australia Day because it's a public holiday, one of my best friend's birthdays and the day the biggest youthish radio station has it's "hottest 100" for the year, but I always think it's good to remember on such days just how many people died in the world wars fighting against nationalism, admittedly more aggressive nationalism than we tend to see today, but the same philosophy.

edit; Of course officially Iceland has the highest standards of living. Canada is third, Australia fourth (Canada moved up a place against us at the last statistics at the end of last year) and the US is 15th. So really Iceland is probably the best country in the world, although I'm happy being slightly dumber, poorer and living slightly less time, but in Australia's climate

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 05 Jul 2009 09:39

Both of you derailed threads that were meant in celebration of something. That's what was meant.

Empire or not, I'm still damn proud to be an American. Wanna know why? 'Cause when we party we don't "go to the disco" like Euro's and dance to shitty trance. We pack people into a house, socialize, get rowdy, and blow shit up. Also we have the best girls in the world once you get passed the princesses

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 05 Jul 2009 10:48

Allan Haggett wrote a good little note on facebook a few years ago that he reposted for the recent Canada day that I think a lot of which applies well to Australia and the US.

Repost?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Jul 2009 23:27

Why I'm Not A Patriot By Allan Haggett

Originally written on Monday, July 2, 2007 at 11:45am (edited slightly)

I'll celebrate Canada Day when:
1) ALL Native land claims are dealt with
2) We stop participating in unjust wars
3) When we re-join Kyoto
4) When the queen of England can no longer veto our laws
5) When we start being capitalist and stop giving corporations welfare (particularly apt now?)
6) When we stop exploiting third world labor for cheap products
7) When we learn to live in balance with the natural world around us

This country is one of the best places in the world to live. If I didn't live here, I would probably very much want to move to exactly where I live now. I believe this place is wonderful and beautiful, and that we have more than we can imagine.

I also believe that much of what we have are ill-gotten gains, and that before we go celebrating what a wonderful, free system we have here, that we should pay close attention to how and why we have what we have, and recognize that it has come at a terrible cost.

So, that is why I spend Canada Day reflecting on history and our common future together here on Earth, and I prefer not to celebrate a system which has created and continues to create an unjust and violent world.

You might call me negative or lame, or tell me that I should move if I don't like "it". The thing is, I believe that critical examination is a positive skill that more people need to learn to develop. I think that celebrating something as ambiguous and strange as a mythological "country" without critical examination is a net negative for humanity, and only perpetuates the cycles that contribute to the dire situation that we find ourselves in today.

Despite how all of this may make me seem, I really am a happy, positive person. I see that there are many, many great and progressive things happening, and that we deserve to let loose and party and celebrate the summer and our friendships. But if that's what we're celebrating, then let's call it that. It's just that I find celebrating a flag or some "national identity" as a strange and questionable venue for such a celebration, and as much as I don't like being a "party pooper", I think that, collectively, we've been pooping on other people's party's for far too long. It's time to be more humble and apologetic about our beginnings as a nation and our role in the world as a major supplier of arms to war and contributor to global warming among many other "blemishes". As a so-called country, "we" don't, actually, have a lot to be proud of.

Peace, Love, and, (at the risk of being just that too much corny) in the words of John Lennon:

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

-----

I attempted to maintain the same formatting as in the original, but it's probably that any errors are mine.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 06 Jul 2009 07:13

1) ALL Native land claims are dealt with

One thing that I took from the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" was that their is no such thing as a "native land claim". For thousands upon thousands of years peoples have been displacing other peoples through "unjust" means, and to act like it's something we can or should reverse or make better is pretty naieve. The story of mankind essentially degrades to the stronger group taking the better land for itself. European's displacing native peoples is just one more example of this among MILLIONS.

Otherwise, +2

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 06 Jul 2009 15:38

My readings of Jared Diamond makes me think he thinks the complete opposite of that. Guns, Germs and Steel is describing what did happen, not what should happen.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 06 Jul 2009 16:19

Dude, what are you talking about? Jared Diamond thinks the opposite of what, specifically?

Where did I say that just because that's the way it has happened and probably will continue to happen, that that's the way I think or want it to happen? Stop fishing for arguments you don't even make any fucking sense.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 06 Jul 2009 17:25

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood you.

I am completely sure that Jared Diamond is a strong supporter of indigenous land rights and some level of justice for the White invasions and genocides committed in countries like Australia, the US and Canada.

In regards to environmental determinism, you really should read his follow up book - Collapse; How Societies Choose To Fail or Succeed.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 07 Jul 2009 10:43

I am completely sure that Jared Diamond is a strong supporter of indigenous land rights and some level of justice for the White invasions and genocides committed in countries like Australia, the US and Canada.

Uhhh what the fuck's the point? Can't we just focus on giving everyone an equal shot in life without worrying about what our great great grandparents did to your great great grandparents? In America, native's have long had complete bueracratic control over their reservations, and as someone who lives 15 minutes away from the local Casino and meth supplier, I can tell you how well that worked. I'm not saying you support this system specifically, what I'm saying is I don't know what you mean at all by "land rights". Under this philosophy, don't they have a right to ALL the land we stole from them? My original point was that a recurring motif in mankinds story is the stealing of prime land from weaker groups by the stronger group. Is it practical to give a fuck about shit like this? Can't we focus on making things right in the present, not the past?

I guess what I'm asking is what "indigineous land rights" even mean? I understand that the Aborigine situation in Australia is different than the native situation in America in that they are still isolated from the Caucasian populations on the coast or w/e, but what are you exactly proposing to do to try and, however partially, right these wrongs from century's ago? It isn't like the Aborigine's always lived in the shittiest most arid parts of Australia.

Can you show me where Jared Diamond has supported whatever positions you are saying he supports?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 07 Jul 2009 19:51

Well I don't know what's going on in the USA and I don't think I have claimed to. "Land rights" is the philosophy that the people who lived in these places before the European invasions have a right to own the land they've lived on for thousands of years, even if they're nomadic. If that's already the case in the US then great. My minuscule understanding of the issues, based largely on a Kevin Costner documentary suggests that native Americans are largely very poor with most of their resources and land taken away without compensation, and although in some states there may be better policies, the overall picture is very grim. Kevin Costner documentaries are not an amazing source so no doubt there is a lot more to the situation. I don't know. I didn't make any specific comments about the US situation and I don't know enough about it.

I understand that the Aborigine situation in Australia is different than the native situation in America in that they are still isolated from the Caucasian populations on the coast or w/e, but what are you exactly proposing to do to try and, however partially, right these wrongs from century's ago? It isn't like the Aborigine's always lived in the shittiest most arid parts of Australia.

The majority of people with indigenous Australian heritage live in cities in Australia. In the past Aborigines mainly lived in the places with the most food, which is also where white people decided to settle, understandably. This, as well as past "immigration" policies have lead to the only surviving indigenous Australian populations being in isolated places with little value to the newer populations of Australians. Rather than it being a case of "Aborigine's [sic] always [living] in the shittiest most arid parts of Australia," we (Australians) didn't allow them to survive as a culture, a race or a group of people, living anywhere else but the shittiest places.

I can't find or am going to look for any specific sources about things Jared Diamond has written. In regards to his disagreement with environmental determinism, you really only need to look at the title of his book Collapse to see that this is the case. There are shit loads of essays and lectures by him on the internet, watch him yourself.

abstract · Post by **abstract** » 08 Jul 2009 08:25

firstly, happy belated 4th, Lower Canada!

sincerely, 51st State.

BainbridgeShred wrote:In America, native's have long had complete bueracratic control over their reservations

that's like giving a toddler beaurocratic control over their playpen. ( in the ways of modern commerce, aboriginals were indeed infantile. )

My original point was that a recurring motif in mankinds story is the stealing of prime land from weaker groups by the stronger group. Is it practical to give a fuck about shit like this? Can't we focus on making things right in the present, not the past?

it is very practical to give a fuck, so that history doesn't repeat itself. you are right, the strong will always prevail. impoverished aboriginal groups on reservations do not have the power to help themselves.

the way that land claims are presently being successully resolved are through aboriginal groups taking it upon themselves to make themselves stronger independently & standing on their rights as a sovereign first nation apart from the governments of north america. all reservations still operate within the laws of US / Canada, & to have a native status is actually a segregation within US / Canada without respect to their sovereign status ( they're just a different kind of citizen of US / Canada ).

here are a few links to aboriginal groups who are successully navigating their way, in the present, to correct the errors of the past:

http://republicoftimucua.synthasite.com/

http://www.republicoflakotah.com/about-us/

http://kinakwii.com/kinakwii.pdf

the 3rd link is a group that i am actively working with here in ontario. we are presently working on our first land transfer agreement. there are a number of native groups who never signed a treaty to join US / Canada, & they are in the best position to build towards a prosperous future ( or in the case of the Lakotah, they have officially withdrawn themselves from their pre-existing treaties ).

an interesting note about land claims in canada is that, if they were all to be resolved successfully, the algonquins would gain control of the land where canada's parliament currently resides. aka, fat chance.

an interesting read: http://www.kyphilom.com/www/seattle.html

Chief Seattle's reply to Gov't seeking to purchase Salish lands, 1854.

edit: there are multiple versions of this speech. the updated link has both, the 2nd being the more trustworthy translation.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 08 Jul 2009 09:57

"Land rights" is the philosophy that the people who lived in these places before the European invasions have a right to own the land they've lived on for thousands of years, even if they're nomadic. If that's already the case in the US then great.

Look, as I've already said, the native's owned ALL of this land long before a ghost face stepped foot on the continent (Be it America or Australia). What specific steps are you proposing to right the wrongs our of great great great great grandfathers? Affirmative action? Signing over the property rights to different tribes on all or some of the lands they use to have their oyster beds on? Back to Europe movement for us pale feet?

Is it not a better policy to scrap the whole idea of affirmative action (Not speaking of it solely in terms of higher education) as based on ethnicity and focus instead on helping all of the less advantaged? Especially considering how no one still living took an active role in the stealing of these lands from the natives?

You say Land rights is a philosophy, but that doesn't make any fucking sense. What specific rights to the land do the natives have that we must grant them if we are to be fair? Stop mumbling and answer the question. You want to give them Adelaide and Perth and just call it good?

My minuscule understanding of the issues, based largely on a Kevin Costner documentary suggests that native Americans are largely very poor with most of their resources and land taken away without compensation, and although in some states there may be better policies, the overall picture is very grim.

There's a lot of poor people in America, and frankly, I think this dichtotomy of groups into poor natives/poor whites/poor blacks/poor mexicans does a lot to hold back all of the poor. I don't give a shit what color someone's skin is, if your needy your needy. Fucking talking about "land rights" like an idiot because you want to seem moralistic and have a historic sense of justice when land rights aren't going to do shit for anyone and is totally impractical to begin with. Silly ass bleeding heart liberals and your silly ass bleeding heart crusades.

The majority of people with indigenous Australian heritage live in cities in Australia. In the past Aborigines mainly lived in the places with the most food, which is also where white people decided to settle, understandably. This, as well as past "immigration" policies have lead to the only surviving indigenous Australian populations being in isolated places with little value to the newer populations of Australians. Rather than it being a case of "Aborigine's [sic] always [living] in the shittiest most arid parts of Australia," we (Australians) didn't allow them to survive as a culture, a race or a group of people, living anywhere else but the shittiest places.

I don't think you read what I said very closely because you basically repeated me. If the Aboriginie's occupied the coast lands as it seems obvious that they did, should the white Australian's relenquish the lands and move to the center of Australia, and give back the coast's to the people who originally called them home before the Anglo settlers?

Also, correcting my spelling of a word like Aboriginie makes you look like a complete ass-hat. You must have a lot of trouble talking to girls if you're as much as grammar nazi in real life as you are on here