Do we really need the footbag.org video gallery?

Footbag videos and footbag related videos such as takraw, freestyle soccer, etc.

How important is the footbag.org video gallery system to you?

Very important (I use it for video upload, and/or I use it to find videos from other footbag.org users)
20
42%
Somewhat important (I occasionally use it to view videos posted here and other places)
16
33%
Not important (I'd just as well people embedded YouTube videos or used other video services as they become popular)
12
25%
 
Total votes: 48

webmaster
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Do we really need the footbag.org video gallery?

Post by webmaster »

Folks,

I need input from you all about the usefulness of the footbag.org video gallery as so many other options have presented themselves since I first created that system.

When I first created the footbag.org video gallery, it was truly the only place anyone could get free hosting of videos (especially full quality ones), and was a central repository that we could make it easy to share with other footbaggers etc., etc. yadda yadda.

But at this point, there are so many better solutions out there (not the least of which, obviously, is YouTube now that they offer higher quality, etc.).

In fact, the "gallery" on footbag.org isn't only a hosting system for videos -- it's also an index for videos that are hosted off the site! Nobody uses this feature, but it's pretty robust and has been there since the start. In other words, we could keep the footbag.org gallery going, but we could just remove the ability to upload new videos -- and instead, use it as a way for users to index all their videos on other sites (wherever they may be) so people can easily find them, etc. and link them in with events like we offer today, etc.

But if people still think actually uploading videos is critically important as well, that's good to know. I just don't know how valuable all this is to people.

The reason it all matters is real costs of keeping all this stuff going, and improving it (fixing bugs, adding features, etc.) if it's going to be used a lot more into the future.

I don't think anyone realizes that fully half the hard costs IFPA spends on our internet presence each year is on both the hosting of and the bandwidth for downloading videos from our mirror. We pay for all that stuff -- nothing in this world is free. :-)

But there's also the issue of maintenance, backups, and the general overhead of such a big and complicated application on footbag.org that I personally have to spend many, many hours dealing with.

One of many examples is that I've been redesigning the gallery for a long time now -- my redesigned version removes the need for people to invent a keyword for each set they create (a stupid requirement, I don't know what I was thinking) and makes it more turnkey to add and edit your videos online. But to finish that redesign is literally at least 6 more months of part-time work on weekends for me. I could accelerate it, but I have so many other projects to work on (such as moving the entire footbag.org service to a new set of machines -- no small feat that will take literally a month of working all weekend on it once I start), and it's just not falling out very high on my priroity list.

So I'm soliciting input from you folks -- the ones who are the most avid users of the gallery upload and download service. Please do not suggest new features -- I don't need new feature suggestions. Just please weigh in on whether or not you find its mere existence valuable, whether you feel strongly that I should invest the ridiculous amounts of time and energy needed to improve it (not to mention just keeping it going), and if you have ideas for ways to help me (i.e., you're a grade A php coder and want to help me with a massive rewrite of the gallery :-) ), etc.

Thanks.

Steve Goldberg
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Post by PoisonTaffy »

The fact is that people still use the footbag.org gallery despite the other options you listed, so it definitely has its merits.. I personally prefer videos hosted on footbag.org for the download option.

I'm pretty sure that if it's not available anymore, hardly anyone would bother to have their videos available for download, which would suck.

However, if there's a better use for the resources spent on this service, I personally could go on living without it.
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Post by acxel22 »

I like the fact I can upload my videos on THE footbag.org site and not some other company that can modify my video without asking.

Especially competition footage should always be on the reference site (or at least linked from the reference site)

But I understand the costs are probably heavy and all that for something we can get for free.

If it would have to stop, Vimeo would be my next choice since we can upload bigger files, and download them from the site.
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Re: Do we really need the footbag.org video gallery?

Post by WyrmFyre »

webmaster wrote: and if you have ideas for ways to help me (i.e., you're a grade A php coder and want to help me with a massive rewrite of the gallery :-) ), etc.
Id be happy to offer up a few hours here and there to help with any coding you need. Ive been working for my present company for 18 months now developing CMS systems among other things in PHP. Drop me a PM if your interested!

On topic, I quite like the footbag.org gallery, primarily for the reason Roy stated. I often download a couple of vids that interest me and watch them on my PS3. Watching good shred on youtube is fun, watching it on a big TV on a comfy sofa is fun-er :D
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Post by Tjuggles »

Steve,

I personally don't use it really at all, mostly because I don't have a camera, but I think that it is a good thing to have. Knowing that I can put movies on a footbag server is reassuring.
TJ Boutorwick

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Post by Johnny »

I personally don't upload a whole lot, but I can say that I like that the videos are kept 'safe' on .org, and not held with a third-party. The .org gallery is very reliable, powerful, just underused imo. It's not that I think YouTube is going to dissapear anytime soon... but that isn't the point.

I guess I'm just trying to say I appreciate the work it takes/ has taken to keep the gallery online, and I would be sad to see it get shut down. For so long the .org gallery has been a constant, you know?

Perhaps it is time to embrace change, and let some tp sites take the burden?
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Post by Jeremy »

Posting because somebody thought my opinion on this was important. They're wrong, but thanks for the message anyway :).

While .org videos have their value, I don't think it makes sense to be spending time and a great deal of effort on things that are not particularly supported by the footbag community (a quick search suggests that far more footbag videos are put on youtube of vimeo (vimeo allows for direct downloads as well) than on .org). The cost and effort compared with the benefits seems unnecessary.

Footbag.org was certainly a great source for videos when I was learning to play, but the environment has changed and I think it would be good to change with it.

That said, Steve you're the person who puts in all the effort and pays the costs. I really don't think the opinions of people like myself, who haven't contributed anything significant and have just free loaded on your efforts should carry much weight. I'd be happy with whatever you think is best.
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Post by Ian Brill »

Jeremy wrote:...Steve you're the person who puts in all the effort and pays the costs. I really don't think the opinions of people like myself, who haven't contributed anything significant and have just free loaded on your efforts should carry much weight. I'd be happy with whatever you think is best.
+1
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Post by webmaster »

I'm asking if you get value from it, not for your permission to do what I will do anyway. :-)
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Post by mc »

i get value from it (I like that people can download the nice-quality videos, instead of having to watch the lesser-quality on youtube) but not so much value that I think that someone should put a tremendous amount of effort into the thing.

my needs are met by youtube and vimeo, and I very rarely make use of the video services provided by footbag.org.
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Post by Muffinman »

I get value from it.
I archived, like, every Hackrifice video on my account because you had told me that that was the original purpose of the service and that you wished more people did this. I get a thrill when people add videos to Modified with a .org link, because I love to download everything to watch later. YouTube is convenient, but sans internet it's useless.

I also like the idea of a footbag server for footbag videos. Security, exclusivity, and posterity.

Every once in a while I will peruse every single one of the personal galleries to see if there are videos I haven't seen and download them to watch again later. And I still upload every new Hackrifice video to .org, even though I have my own website, because of posterity and security.


EDIT: I have a link to my gallery in my signature even :P
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Post by webmaster »

Erik Chan wrote:I archived, like, every Hackrifice video on my account because you had told me that that was the original purpose of the service and that you wished more people did this.
Yes, but that was years ago.

Understand this: any plan to decommission the gallery on footbag.org would not mean all videos that had previously been uploaded there are gone.

The question is about the ability to continue to upload to it into the future, not so much about historical videos. Of course I never delete anything, so I wouldn't delete these, either. You'd still be able to access them forever, just like you can still access tournament results from 1997 or the home page from 1998. :-)

*Note: the gallery links from that old home page don't work, but that's what we call "bit rot" which I could easily fix. :-)

Steve
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Post by FlexThis »

I feel that as a .org entity the site should host as much tournament footage as possible. I find footbag.org to be the most comprehensive place for all things Sport related. I feel that personal circle shred or practice sessions should be hosted some where else (from now on) and any current footage cemented on the site (left alone).

I agree with you Steve! It is simply not the best use of your personal time and money when a more popular alternative such as YouTube and Vimeo are readily available to us all. It would be rather selfish of us (the community) to continue to lean on your services when your time and money could better be spent on more important higher level endeavors.

I personally appreciate your openness to discuss, but feel you should do what is best for the larger picture and I feel that that is indeed your intent.

Much appreciation!
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Post by Faco »

Well, I never use it and I prefer Youtube (at least until they start messing with copyrights, I hate that) so I wouldn't miss it in that sense.

But yeah, .org gallery was the source of my first videos too, so I would kinda feel bad for it :D
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Post by ianek »

i still upload my videos for people who might want to download them, but i also upload them on youtube. i personally don't download videos anymore (i just watch them on youtube type sites and add them in my favorite), and i have the feeling many people do the same as me now.

so i think we don't really need the "upload" anymore but the "index" is definately very usefull. (if we start to use it)
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Post by peterh »

If I could vote "not important" 100 times, I would.
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Post by C-Fan »

Home page from 1998 brought a big smile to my face. Thanks for that Steve.
:)
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Post by webmaster »

C-Fan wrote:Home page from 1998 brought a big smile to my face. Thanks for that Steve. :)
:-) Glad you liked it, Ken. :-)

@Paeg: OK, I'll remove all your videos now, then. :-)

Steve
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Post by jay7 »

...Why Footbag.org kicks ass.

I went through 20 pages of the oldest videos, trying to watch what seemed like good ones, and 90% of them were down. Even many new videos, some on the Christmas Calendar 2009, are hosted on personal websites, and will be down. Proof of this, is try to look for "Super in Slow" from a few months ago. From those pages, half the videos from 2004-2006 were hosted on Shredmonton, Missoula, .Cz, monsterhack, random Finnish owned site, and whatnot... All down now.

I think that Footbag.org is great, and should be used to host all your new videos, so people like me in the future can look at all the functional working links, download them, and enjoy no-skip-stream waiting times.. The only problem is that it is incredibly easy to make videos over 250 mb now, let alone 100 mb..

1.) Kevin Regamey, 2004.
http://www.footbag.org/media/396/kevin_twitchshred.WMV
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=5876

2.) Baby Jorden, 2004
http://www.footbag.org/media/203/Me,%20 ... %20Eye.wmv
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=5907

3.) Baby Ontario
http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/3060
Modifed Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=6347

4.) The last time footbag looked cool.
http://www.footbag.org/media/405/footjam04wmv.avi
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=5649

5.) Ok, I take it back. This is the last time Footbag looked cool.
http://www.footbagging.com/prep.mov
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=6601

6.) Matt Cross, GLASS 2005
http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/3851
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=8202

7.) Pirate Byrin, '05.
http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/3785
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=8080

8.) Not yet completely erotic Cleaver.
http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/3885
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=8252

9.) Anssi edits.
http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/6063
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=10858
Little did I know when I visited him, how incredibly vital this spot was for Finnish Footbag. So many Anssi/Felix sessions happened right there...I should have done something more memorable. . Guess that means I'll just have to go back.

10.) Anssi is legendary.
http://www.footbag.org/media/696/Dynamite-Anz.wmv
http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=12295
I want to hug this shed.

11.) Two Great Worlds videos. Mads.
http://www.footbag.org/media/776/czechworlds05.wmv
http://www.footbag.org/media/776/wonderfulworlds.wmv
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=12477
Modified Link: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=9788

I enjoyed watching these videos, from the time before I played... Impossible without .org .
Jay Boychuk
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Post by MrMeebles »

The main advantage of footbag.org's video gallery is that it's semi-permanent (insofar as anything on-line can be considered "permanent"). Most video I see here is transient in nature. I'll watch it, hopefully enjoy it and in a week I can safely forget I ever saw it. Post it to youtube.

What I would like to see is the footbag.org video galleries used as a time capsule, a reference. I think the final routines from all ifpa tournaments should automatically be uploaded to a footbag.org gallery. I'd also like to see a gallery of "classic" videos, i.e. videos that are already at least a year old, but have stood the test of time. How that would practically happen though I couldn't tell you. Anyway, just some thoughts.

-Andrew
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