Stop using lead you fucking idiots.

[hrdcorethndr1]

The only thing that i am afraid of is that i will breath in contaminated air. lead not only travels through direct contact but through the air, and i know that footbags are not airtight, if you just play in a well ventialted area such as "the outdoors" I'm not sure if the problom will be solved, but it scares me enough to get non-toxic filler and footbags, so to sum up, if my favorite stitcher ever starts using anything other than toxic materials i will gladly buy more than one and more than once a year.

[Wasabi]

The dirtiest bags that ooze dark goo water for me happened to be bags that have tungsten fill in them. The cleanest were actually filled with lead.

I do sweat a lot, but maybe I don't kick and sweat so much that I get the bag extra ripe and moist with my liquid sauce. Maybe I should do more alpine concepts and body rolls to fix this.

[Wasabi]

I have an idea on how to test if there are any lead particles/dust seeping out of a lead-filled bag. You just need two items really:

• Cheese cloth, or a cloth with a very thin yet smooth textile (should be see-through when faced against a light). White preferred.
• Plastic wrap, or a loose plastic bag that can wrap around the cheese cloth without compressing its size through enduring impact.

Have a cheesecloth of marginal size that you can wrap around the lead-filled footbag and tie all ends into one singular knot. Make sure the cheese cloth bag is slightly loose. Then wrap the plastic around the cheesecloth and make another knot with all ends tied. Poke some small holes in the plastic wrap to ensure stabile ventilation. Again, make the plastic bag slightly loose as well. Then spend a week or more every day just kicking and hand-kneading the bag for an hour or more per session. After everything, check if there is a dark grey residue within the cheese-cloth bag. Compare the overall inner surface to that of the areas where the knot has been tied, as that area is sure to be slightly more clean due to the folded over surfaces.

A second test would to be see how lead particles would seep out of footbag if wet conditions were present. This is where the plastic wrap is not necessary. I suppose if you're kicking half-naked, make sure the cheese-cloth interacts with as much sweat as possible, or ready supply of water to soak (but not squeeze) the cheese-cloth bag so that there is feasible moisture. Be sure to kick on clean surfaces so that no dirt can compromise the results. Also, for this second test, wear gloves so that you don't feel irked at hand-kneading and/or handling a wet and grimy lead-filled bag. Then check if there is any realyy dark residue on the 32 and cheese-cloth.

Weird tests, I know, but at least it will debunk people's thoughts on how widespread lead particles can be in lead-filled footbags.

[fool]

I'd be willing to try that.. I have a bunch of white canvas fabric that I'm not using and a brand new lead/seed bead filled bag that i've just finished. I'll post pictures in a week or so.

[hrdcorethndr1]

i still believe that this experiment may not completely tell you if lead particles seep out, not all lead will be discolored, especially if it is travelling through the air. i am not saying i am right, it just puts enough doubt in my mind to use a wonderful perfect lead bag, dammit why does lead have to be toxic.

[Wasabi]

Well, most of the toxicity is from antimony, which is the alloy that is used to make lead shot into a rounder pellet. Here's some info that I got from Ballistic Products about antimony:

[quote="Ballistic Products"]Lead pellets are classified by their alloy content. Antimony is a brittle flaky, crystalline metal. It looks like a raw coal with a bluish whitish metallic hue. Antimony is toxic. Lead, when alloyed with antimony, becomes a better pellet. Modern drop shot is alloyed about .5% antimony. With antimony, hardness is relative to the percentage of antimony added, and antimony improves surface tension, creating a rounder pellet.

Chilled shot is about 98 percent lead and has an antimony content from about .5% to around 2%. Magnum shot has between 3% and 6% antimony added depending on size. Smaller pellets have higher percentages while larger sizes have smaller percentages. It’s hard to nail the exact antimony content, as manufactures purchase their ingots in pre-alloyed lots. Secondly, when rejected pellets are remelted the antimony content is altered. So, in order to have an exact reading, we would have to exclude all the rejects. To keep prices reasonable there’s a bit of “guesstimationâ€

[Zac Miley]

That's interesting. Thanks Waylon.

So, antimony does flake off of the pellets? It would be neat to know just how much antimony is in a bag.

[fool]

This is kind of off topic, yet still relevant to the toxicity and inhalation arguments.. on Freedom Footbags there's a clear warning that the sand used in Mr. Sandbags is known to cause cancer when the dust is inhaled:

http://www.freedomfootbags.com/product_ ... cts_id=101

Unless I've been reading wrong for the past year, Mr. Sandbags have been recommended to about every beginner asking what bag to start out with. People are citing the dangers of lead shot dust inhalation, but what makes that any different than the sand?

Thanks for the Antimony post by the way, Waylon.

[hrdcorethndr1]

Their explanation and/or their warning,

Now you might be wondering why we would sell a product that’s known to cause cancer. You may recall from science class that more than one quarter of the earth’s crust is composed of silicon by weight. Silicon (atomic element number 14) is not found in nature, but it is most commonly found in the form of silica, whose chemical symbol is: SiO2.

Silica (which is what quartz crystals are made of) accounts for nearly 75% of the volume of the earth’s crust. And practically any sand that you find, weather it’s on a beach, in your kids sandbox, or stuck in the treads of your shoe will contain at least some silica.

Use this product at your own risk. Still, we can’t help but take note of the fact that this stuff (silica sand) is practically everywhere in small amounts (just go outside and look in the gutter of your street) . We’ve done a bit of research on the potential hazards of stuff like “play sandâ€

[Jordan]

Although I could care less... Just listen to the name of this thread.

I dont wana seem like a hypocrite saying this, but theres no need to post your thoughts on how lead can be/is an alright alternative to footbag fill.. Because in the long run, its really not. Just be super cautious, and take care of yourselves.

We dont wana be a man down in the footbag world, if ya know what I mean

[Brad Benson]

Copper Plated Lead

http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/m ... _LEAD_SHOT

[fool]

Can't get pictures up sadly.. my sister took her digital camera with her to college. There was no residue on the inside of the canvas however.. if you don't believe me, try it out for yourself.

[hrdcorethndr1]

Evan though a "discolored residue" was not found how do we know that lead is not discolored in its gas form? lead is obviously discolored when it is washed, as large particles of lead wash away (or at least large in a microscopic kind of way) I do not mean to put any harm unto your experiment except that it lacks room for reasonable doubt. if the canvas was tested for lead and it came back negative, than i do not believe that there is any reasonable doubt to this experiment

[fool]

It wouldn't come off as a gas.. it would come off in dust, which is still in solid form.. just a lot smaller. Therefore any residue of even a small amount would show up on the canvas if present. I compared it to a piece that was not used in the experiment and there wasn't any color change on the experiment piece.

[Wasabi]

I'm just going openly express my thoughts on filler preferences:

Just use what you think is best. Lead, steel, tungsten - it's all good. Just don't let your kids or pets eat your footbags. Wash your hands. Don't sniff, kiss or put your footbags whereever they aren't suppose to be. And you'll be fine.

It'll be better than a bag filled with rice, seeds or rocks. Or a crochet / Hacky Sack Striker. Guaranteed.

[ZachSoulBrotha]

Does anybody know where can I order tungsten filling online?

[sidekick]

I agree to some extent, but also have many problems with alternative fillers.

Tungsten: expensive as hell, and every batch i find to buy is dirty when it comes to me and I have to take at least 30 minutes washing, drying, and then putting it back into it's packaging. If I don't wash it (and sometimes even if I do) my bags get discolored from the brown-ish grey water that washes out of the bag. I don't experiance that with lead fillers I've used.

Bizmuth: My ex-roommate used this, and it's also expensive, and increasingly hard to find to buy. Other than that, I would say it's fine.

Steel: too light for my tastes, but so far the best alternative that I have heard of.

I think that nickle or copper plated lead is the best alternative for me on my personal bags, I like how lead feels softer and makes my bags more supple, but for the online Fourkast Bags, I'm required to use tungsten, so I do. I find that it makes my bags die quicker due to how hard tungsten is.

I would really like to be able to find a cheap metal shot that us better or at least almost the same as lead, but for now I use what I can, which is tungsten.

[zachatree]

i been using nickle plated lead... only cus its what i had available locally to buy.. i have never washed the bags i make cus of it, i just let them get dirty an make a new one... i am selling the #6 nickle plated lead shot to my dads friend, an hoping i can order some non toxic shot from the local gun shop. think im gonna try #8.

id really like to sell a few of my bags for 10$ to get some feed back but not till i get some non toxic filler, cus lead just isnt cool, but its what i had so i used it. luckily lead isn't illegal to use in PA an its killing power is unmatched so at least i can sell it to a hunter an get my money back



thanks for making the post tom, it was a good motivator.

[ShredOnLawn]

Stop using lead you fucking idiots.

Word.

[Wasabi]

Use lead and start bleeding mercury.

You know you want to.