If footbag was big, what would we be kicking with?

[PoisonTaffy]

I'm trying to imagine, if footbag was as big as Tennis, companies would probably have to create specialized equipment and fight to have the privilege of putting Vasek's face on it to monetize. There would probably be year models and "performance enhancing somethingwhatever".
But how much room of improvement is there on what we already use?

What kind of equipment(shoes, bags, even shorts, whatever comes to mind) would we be seeing if companies would be willing to spend millions in designing footbag equipment?

[WyrmFyre]

Id say more shoes, probably. Wether theyd be endorsed by certain players I dont know.

Bag wise, we might see lots more machine made ones coming out, but i think there will always be a market for hand stitched bags. Theyd more than likely be sold through a larger website though, with the actual stitcher remaining pretty much anonymous, though of course, those in the know would know where it came from. Saying that, each stitcher might become more akin to a brand as opposed to a human with a name. Not sure i like that

I think we'd also see more ranges of shorts and other sports wear "designed" for footbag, or with footbag in mind.

[PoisonTaffy]

So you say, same thing, but less personal and more money involved.

By the way, freedomfootbags already sell stitcher bags by at least 3 stitchers, last I've checked.

[Corey]

companies (adidas reebok nike) would probably make sure were you dont need mods but they dont fall apart

more machine made bags of a higher quality

BAP members endorsing everythimg from gatorade to cars (like derek jeter tiger woods)

[Wasabi]

I assume specialized sports insoles for footbag would be a big hit.

[mahhkohh]

well shorts-wise i dont see that much room for enhancement, the planet footbag shorts are pretty much as good as it gets, but i´m sure the big names could come up with something why theyre shorts are better (climacool, adiprene => adishred ???)

shoes are a thing however were i see lots of potential. as in the running industrie there will be lots of different shoes that will/would be good for a certain type of player and style, so everyone can pic shoes that fit his style of shredding. also i hope for red lavers in my size!!!

bags may be another thing. i dont think there will be more machinemade bags, since its obvious that these suck donkey ass. maybe highly specialized pakistani sticher kids... i dont know, but i guess the planet footbag/freedomfootbags "stichers bags" way of selling may be the way to go. maybe stichers get "sponsored" by big brands to put on the logos and stuff...

all pretty virtual but fun to think about.

[PoisonTaffy]

I think stitcher bags would disappear. Probably won't be able to compete with good quality mass produced 32's.

I imagine there would be a 1 panel bag with some type of fill to make it very stallable and easy to set.

I agree with Marco, I think we haven't seen the epitome of footbag shoes yet. And development of new ways to play with the bag will produce new types of shoes for sure. I think the sport can still grow to wild directions if enough talented and creative people get into it, and the equipment would grow to accommodate these directions accordingly.

[lotus]

point of objection/frustration:

it amazes me to this day, how ill-informed and opinionated a large portion of the footbag community is about semi-mass produced footbags [i say semi-mass produced, because i would not class the amounts that i have produced as mass].

yes, if footbag was bigger, there would be larger numbers of footbags ... but my producer already has US customers that order roughly 200,000 sand bags per year ... how much bigger are we talking? go into your local toy chain, and perhaps you will find a hacky sack [tm] brand bag, a machine stitched rock hard vinyl bag, or the good ole' crocheted bag ... how many crocheted bags do you think are produced each year ... millions!

i have had recent experience of discussing working with a company in a non-footbag playing nation to introduce footbag/s into their country through heavily promoted public performances, celebrity creation, and footbag production. after offering them the perfect footbags for beginner players to become intermediate players, the money behind the deal says, "we will get some of those footbags, but tell us, what footbags can you offer for US$1.00?" how can you compete with that mindset?

this may come as a surprise to some of you, but to have a footbag hand-stitched in pakistan, filled, and freighted, costs much more than US$1.00. and much much more for say, my new mini freestyle bags, filled with expensive super small ball bearing filler. i said their only option would be hand-stitched china bags [but strongly urged against it for the good of our sport, and their brand recognition] ... but this is what large companies will do ... go cheap.

every major footbag company on the planet - wfa, planet footbag, freedom footbags, and my own elemental footbags sell footbags that are hand-stitched in pakistan ... if those companies branch into providing an avenue for player-stitchers also, it is alongside their pakistan made products, and is often frought with difficulties in supply and demand when stock needs replenishing. why? many player-stitchers simply get sick of it ... with the notable exceptions of abshire, footfighter, etc [and huge props to them] ... these guys are worthy to comment on the pakistani men who produce my products, as they have some empathetic understanding of using their stitching to feed themselves and their families ... and the work ethic needed to feed the constancy of it.

the only machine-stitched footbags sold by reputable footbag companies are sand bags [for sand retention purposes] ... and then only some, as these hand-stitchers are very accomplished at what they do and can hand-stitch sand retentive bags with a little extra effort.


important notes:

[1] the only difference between my mini 32-panel FREESTYLER footbag and a bag stitched by waylon or marco or matt cross, etc, is that my product is hand-stitched by a man in pakistan [not US or europe]. some of these stitchers have stitched literally thousands of footbags ... do you think they can do this without work ethic or a development of their stitching skill? the only decision comes down to preference of bag ... many players do not feel the difference is all that pronounced, so long as we are talking small, heavy, loosely filled bags.

[2] most pakistan companies are above board ... they come from a culture that developed a niche market due to their traditional skillset ... the ability to flat out stitch the pants off most westerners ... for less . seriously though, my footbags are not stitched by kids ... the men stitch, and no one in the factory is under the age of 16. you don't run a business for over 10 years without knowing this stuff [unless you have no conscience] ... and the reasons that bags can be produced for far cheaper than stitchers in other countries would charge are many-fold and complex ... including market, economic, and social conditions to name a few. these people are making their living and are very good at what they do.
the owner of the company that has produced elemental footbags for over 10 years died recently. i was heartbroken. why? because he was a good man! he was hard working, generous, sincere, he loved his family and worked damn hard to provide for them, always showed me the same respect that he showed to much larger companies in the US and europe ... and most of all because i considered him a dear friend who died young and left a family behind, including 5 young adult kids. to hear people still refering to paki kids stitching paki bags infuriates me ... it is uneducated, too easy, and in the majority of cases, flat out wrong. when i create a new footbag design ... my man approaches his stitchers, and they consult each other to decide on a fair price. i accept it, and it has meant that some models have not been finacially sustainable for me to produce.
every now and then i am offered footbags at much cheaper rates by companies in pakistan ... these are soooo much cheaper that you know they are dodgy ... and i tell them i'm not interested. when it is your business, you can just tell .

[3] i really hope i haven't ranted too long, and i am not trying to justify what i do ... but these people are human. they are hard working, polite, and incredibly skilled stitchers. the quality of the bags they produce comes down simply to the designs, fillers and materials used, and the vital ingredient ... the closeness of the relationship/communication between the footbag company and the producer [as most footbag companies are started and run by freestyle footbag players].

[4] buy one of my mini 20, 32, or 62-panel footbags ... then post back here and tell me these people can't stitch .


summary: the following describes what would happen / does happen when large corporations get on board the footbag manufacture train ...

[1] they don't make hand-stitched footbags in pakistan anymore ... slower and more expensive than chinese production houses. pakistan production units would be haggled down to breaking point to try and win business away from china.

[2] they make machine-stitched footbags in china ... bigger, faster, cheaper ... far less durable, far less playable.
[you may or may not realise that the hacky sack trademark was sold to a chinese company ... early 80's i think ... and their footbags have been produced there ever since ... try one ]

[3] meaning mass made bags would probs not get better, they'd get worse. these would not be used by players. BUT there would remain players stitching and selling quality hand-made bags. AND there would remain companies set up and run by players to produce playing quality bags, including freestyle bags ... probs still in pakistan, where the cultural skillset is, after they had got off the floor after having been crushed by the multinational sport equipment producers. STAUS QUO ... TOUCHET ... .


i hope this provides some food for thought for those of you who actually care to hear from someone who is directly involved in semi-mass footbag production.

thanks to all those who reach the bottom .

and RIP muhammad anwar chaudry ... a good man and a great friend .

[PoisonTaffy]

I reached the bottom Thanks for the detailed info, Lotus! Turns out I did know very little about footbag production outside of the player-stitcher community. I've never played with a pakistani 32 so I can't say how the stitching and playing quality is.. However, I'm interested to know how's the quality of the material used. I know that a nice portion of player-stitched bags price is due to the use of expensive leather.

[lotus]

thanks for reading all that ... .

you probs know this, but stitchers don't use leather ... they generally use synthetic-suede, which is thinner and more supple.

the main material used by western player-stitchers in named ultra-suede light [also named facile]. a second synthetic material that is becoming very popular is named amaretta ... it's even thinner and more supple in most cases.

the material used by my pakistani producer, and most other pakistani footbag producers, is named amara [it is only used in pakistan, is very similar to amaretta, yet has a much broader colour range like facile]. from my experience, it seems to be more durable than amaretta too ... although this may be taken as my own subjective opinion.

leather is much more suited to a kicking stye of game, due to its thickness and durability ... for this reason, i also sell a range of creative multi-panel leather bags for circle kickers [because let's face it ... they still far outnumber freestyle footbaggers : ].

[hacksterbator]

if footbags were bigger, we would be kicking with soccer balls.

[Wasabi]

If I can get a quarter-to-half yard of yellow Amara suede, I could leave my social life to making a collection of footbags with yellow on them.

[bryan732]

i think the sport would still remain how it is today. but just puting our faces on gatoraid bottles lol

[Eric Chang]

i think the sport would still remain how it is today. but just puting our faces on gatoraid bottles lol

Or maybe a box of wheaties

[mahhkohh]

i think the sport would still remain how it is today. but just puting our faces on gatoraid bottles lol

Or maybe a box of wheaties

i would make adds for german wheatbeer!

wouldnt it be cool if we were big enough to be recogniced as sport by national sportassosiations and get the same treatment like lets say gymnastics when it comes to training places? i bet that would be a big helper for most of us

[DayGlow]

Footbag is an individual style-based sport with a relaxed, artificial competetive nature very similar to extreme sports. Like extreme sports, the equipment progression on the proformance end will fade toward customization. not customization for everyone though. All of the top companies would design equipment with a specific player in mind. i.e. It would be undoubted that vasek would have a "Vasek shoe". The R&D would be put into vasek and his playing style, the shoe would be molded to his foot and have specifications that improve his game. This would be true for all big name pros and pro-model equipment but we'd buy it anyway. there would be a bigger selection of equipment for sure and one could really hone their style by equipping the right combination of gear (shoes, bag, shorts). The saddest part about corporatized footbag is definitely the demise of the home stitched bag. No stitcher would be able to keep up with large corporations and their factories except maybe abshire, which is very sad because all bags would be the same. Some may say "but dayglow, if all of the bags are the same then wouldn't that increase consistancy in the sport." im not arguing that it wouldn't, im arguing that, that is a horrible alternative. Each hand-stitched bag has its own individual character and that is one of the components that make footbag as great as it is.

[peter pan]

I'd probably still be kicking with my feet

[mc]

Corporatized production didn't lead to the death of the hand-built guitar, and I don't think it would lead to the death of the hand-stitched footbag. There will simply be cheaper, effective alternatives to freestyler-stitched bags like the ones that Lotus offers already. People will still want that special feeling of getting a nice bag right from a stitcher / player.

[mahhkohh]

i can totally see myself as the stitcher behind the special edition mäcro bag line by adidas, advertised by aannssii sundberg

[PoisonTaffy]

And the new wave of footbag kids will be like "I'm not hacking in this corporate shit. I'm getting me some underground pakistani bags!"