ATTN: East Coast, we suck.

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 24 Mar 2010 08:15

East Coast footbag players,

Whatâ€™s happened? 5 years ago the East Coast was the place to be. We had big clubs in New York, Philly, Rochester, Montreal, Toronto. Great tournaments at GRASS, Funtastiks, East Coasts, GLASS,KICKASS, Montreal Jams. Now half of these are gone or declining in size.

I understand that a lot East Coasters are slowly leaving the scene, and thatâ€™s fine. But I feel like we at least have the duty to keep the scene going, and I donâ€™t think that weâ€™re doing that right now. We havenâ€™t replaced the old guard with enough up and coming players who have the desire to host tournaments, travel to tournaments and form clubs.

I just miss the days of the East Coast having great tourneys attended by some of the best pros and most motivated newcomers.

I know that Iâ€™m part of the problem right now. I havenâ€™t recruited anyone where I go to school at Penn State, never hosted a tournament. Iâ€™ve been posting on modified less, and generally am just not connected to the scene. Iâ€™m ready to change that and I want others to help me. I say we get the East Coast hopping again, if not because we start playing again, then because weâ€™ve recruited people to replace us.

Hereâ€™s what I want to do in the near future:

Always play in a public spot
Make 4-panel bags to pass out at these sessions
Go to GRASS and East Coasts with a newbie in tow
Restart the Footbag Club at Penn State

Whoâ€™s with me, and who has more ideas?

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 24 Mar 2010 09:18

A strong scene often consists of:
- lots of players
- some good players
- good promoters/organizers

The east coast in general was good at a lot of these things for a long while.

So, the question is, which of these areas is easiest to "fix"?

I think running events is the easiest thing. My opinion has always been that jams (instead of tournaments) are the way to go when trying to build new interest. A competition largely is 10 people getting a chance to play one-by-one while 50 people sit. A jam is largely all 60 people playing in a circle that fits their comfort level. Jams are cheap and easy to run - I even wrote an article on how to do it (saved someplace on this forum).

The fear is then, if people just don't give a crap, then no matter what you try to do, it'll be tough to turn the tide before it wants to do so on its own.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 24 Mar 2010 09:43

btw, I think the subject to this topic could pretty much apply to most areas of the world that aren't "hot right now" (because people will chime in "such and such a place is great!" but it all goes in cycles).

I predict less than 4 people will respond to this thread

g00d33 · Post by **g00d33** » 24 Mar 2010 11:26

I'll try to finally get off my butt and start a club at school as well. That being said, I'll see what I can do to host an event here at Ramapo in the future. And now that I've actually written this here, I have to do it.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 24 Mar 2010 15:10

I'm moving to Toronto in the summer and hope to hit more tournaments. It has been difficult living in Central Canada, in proximity to absolutely nothing except polar bears.

mtoolan · Post by **mtoolan** » 24 Mar 2010 20:40

I've been thinking about this a lot too. I've been pretty out of the loop for the last few months but I've been checking up on modified pretty regularly. Just thinking back to when I first started there were so many jams and tournaments that I couldn't go to because my parents wouldn't let me, but now that I'm able to, a lot of them don't even happen anymore, or I just don't make enough of an effort to get there. I'm down for trying to revamp the east coast, but I don't really know how to start here, in Bethlehem, PA, so I'll brainstorm on that one. Overall I'm definitely going to start playing more, try to make it to more events, and there's a possibility I might be going to school next fall in new york city, and I would love to give NYFA a hand. I'm glad I'm not the only one whose noticed this. And P.S. to Bob, sorry I haven't made it to the shred barn yet, I've been really flaky with footbag since funtastiks.

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 24 Mar 2010 22:34

I look forward to kicking more once I get to PSU. Visiting Bob and Kaiser a bit more too. Heading to NYC as well. Can't promise to be much more than an enthusiastic shred-buddy till schools out. Priorities.

I love footbag. Hope PSU has some good all-night indoor spots.

jay7 · Post by **jay7** » 25 Mar 2010 04:47

Hey people...

Jams are definitely easy to host. If we say, hosted a Jam once a month, where people who were hardcore enough would drive in their radius, and could just play outside with music and be content, they COULD be every month.

So like,

Month 1: Rochester (GRASS). Pennsylvania, New York, Toronto attendance.
Month 2: Toronto, just go a public spot and kick. Jorden, Johnny, me, Toronto, Rochester.
Month 3: Pennsyltucky: Pittsburgh, State College, Some New york..
Month 4: Montreal. Toronto, J/J/J, Jon Schneider, Montreal Crew, etc...
Month 5: Kingston Crew-> etc etc.
Month 6: Boston
Month 7: ?

SInce these would just be a weekend day jam, and then if people wanted they could spend the night Saturday-Sunday, few people would need work off, NO preparations would be necessary on behalf of organizers, and it'd be just as easy as having a session with friends, but, dedicated ones.

I think that is a viable option. I however, DO think that if we have competition at each one, EVEN if there are only 2 competitors, it would be beneficial. Poland has hardcore competition against vicious pierogi sucking raptors like Cod EVERY MONTH. We are going to go to worlds, in the future, and have done a routine only at LAST worlds 2007, for most of us. Even if our skill is better, that competition experience is SOOOO important, just for mental game, etc. So, you know, the judges wouldn't need cards, if there are two competitors just let the other 3 attendees look or whatever. It only would take ten minutes, you don't care about crowds, just get those people in the mindset of "Ok, game day, lets go". Even if you just, "botch" the performance, that is the entire point...Experience, where no one cares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHQrW6mNCuY

AT the end of that video, if there were audio, you'd hear like, 4 people in the background cheering on his shred 30. Like, maybe this was a serious tournament, but, in the same light, if it was just some random jam, it doesn't matter again. It is just Eli going out, showing us he's extreme, and done.

Maybe it is just me though... I personally want to win competitions one day, and, although jams are great, they don't give you that "This is it" feeling of the moments before you perform a routine. Since these jams would be so unnoficial, right after the 2 routines or whatever you could have the "judges" give criticism, and like, do it again or something. I don't know....

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 25 Mar 2010 05:49

142 views, 8 replies (3 of which are from me).

Issues are:
- does anyone care?
- if yes, where the heck are they?
- will anyone actually step up and DO something?

Side note: I know that the reason I stopped promoting and holding events, was that in many cases the "thankless task" is truly that.. Thankless.

SO, one thing everyone CAN do without actually having to put in any effort (trying to set the bar appropriately low here) is to be a courteous and helpful and thankful guest at events. These people that are holding an event for YOUR enjoyment aren't making money, aren't getting famous, have worked their ass off to do the event etc. etc. etc. And just like you, those event organizers have real lives that need tending to as well.

edit: If I have offended any of you... GOOD. Prove me wrong.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 25 Mar 2010 07:13

i'll jam.

boston is still pretty strong

certainly not declining. i care.

i'll also be out everywhere downtown blasting music and playing for the crowd.

CIC flurry · Post by **CIC flurry** » 25 Mar 2010 10:19

Are you guys saying a jam can recruit new players? If so, please elaborate.
Playing in public by itself hasn't yielded any committed new players for me/us.

g00d33 · Post by **g00d33** » 25 Mar 2010 10:57

Maybe at jams or comps we could start setting up an area with a big sign that says "Try It Yourself!" or something. Then players could rotate taking turns manning the station

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 25 Mar 2010 12:58

Are you guys saying a jam can recruit new players?

all just my opinions:

Possibly, but not in large numbers.

I think the web is the number 1 recruiter of new players if I had to guess. Footbag.org primarily if I had to guess again.

What a jam is good for is taking newbies and getting them more hooked (which is key because the drop out rate is ridiculous in this sport). Plus it's fun for everyone else and contributes to a "strong" scene.

OP stated the scene spefically on the east coast was a shell of its former glory. One remedy offered was that jams are easy enough for any player to hold (vs. putting all the burden repeatedly on vince bradley or brenda or whoever)

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 25 Mar 2010 13:18

I find this all very interesting.

I wonder why there is such compulsion to grow in numbers... Seems very unintuitive to me. I understand that having a good scene is great and I feel like I have been involved in such a thing before, but I tend to think the priority is to love what you do and share it with others if you feel like it.

I don't see the point in forcing anything. Playing in public is sometimes fun and sometimes a major pita. If I feel like going outside to play I am mindful that this will require I teach someone that will likely never pick up a bag on their own again in their life. Typically I teach them, but my patience for this dwindles over time. I have given away too many pairs of lavers and too many footbags (though I have an enormous stash of tossers for that purpose now.)

I am sad that I missed tourneys last year, esp. the NYFA one (that REALLY hurt.) I might miss some this year too (traveling, work, school.) That said,
I hope to travel and kick with fellow footbaggers a lot more this coming year, ie: Nathan and Bob in particular. I just can't commit to throwing any events. I think they are dope but I am in no place to pretend I have it in me. Graphics I can swing. Just hit me up and kapow- it's on. Have an idea and I'll make it.

jay7 · Post by **jay7** » 25 Mar 2010 13:30

CIC flurry wrote:Are you guys saying a jam can recruit new players? If so, please elaborate.
Playing in public by itself hasn't yielded any committed new players for me/us.

In my experience, at Jams I always begin making plans with other players about footbag, whether it be personal ventures, or ventures for the community. Most of the time, the steam before and after a jam about any project is really high, and in the months after a jam, there is no action. I imagine, that if every month some of the same people met, that steam / motivation would be more likely to be carried through, and people would be more likely to do things that *could* recruit new players.

Take for example, "Stanford" where Steve and the gang go play every Tuesday. "Dudeguyman" or whatever, on the forums asks "Hey, is there anyone who plays near me?". Lets say there wasn't anyone who met regularly in the area. I doubt he would have gotten good advice from multiple people, gotten exposed to good players, good footbags, and great coaching. If he asked if there was anyone, and someone said "Peter Irish lives in the area, check him out".... The likelyhood of things happening seems much worse, because he would have to organize something with someone he's never met, and has no idea about, and doesn't really even know what footbag is.

So, I figure, there are multiple new players in New York at the moment. Lets say, even though some of them are frequent posters, in one year 75% of them quit modified. With having no Jams, once they "take a break", the only thing they would miss is Modified. If there were jams, and they went to one because it was so close, and so frequent, they would have tons of memories, and, all that "jam" excitement lingering in their head. The likelyhood of them continuing footbag is, simply, greater. I know when there used to be jams on the east coast a few years ago, some of my highschool buddies wanted to come to one, so I took them. This has happened two times. I now have 5 friends who have hit REAL freestyle moves. One of them can hit blurry whirls, 2can hit 10 tiltless everytime, and 2 can atw->clipper->toe->atw "string". They have since been to concerts, youth groups, etc, and all shown footbag. Without those jams, they wouldn't have went with me, and however many people wouldn't have the chance to be affected by them.

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 25 Mar 2010 16:06

Another point that comes up in my mind is that most people don't start up a hobby like footbag by themselves. Yes, if you are really into skating, you will practice kickflips for hours in your driveway, or if you like basketball you will get a hoop put up outside your house, but at some point you want to be able to hang out with your friends who play too - show them your new tricks, motivate each other, and just dick around. If the only way for a new player to do these things is on modified because no one near him/her plays footbag, how long are they going to stick around?

So I think more jams would be really helpful, for a few reasons
1) get new players to make friends, stick to the sport
2) revitalize our own interest in the game
3) create interest on non-players, even if it's only a bit

I think basically, the more often people see footbag, the more intrigued they will be. Someone who passes by a freestlye circle only once may be distracted, too busy or just glance over it for another reason. To use myself as an example, I started longboarding about a year and a half ago--and it wasn't like I saw one kid on a board and thought "Wow!" After I saw a bunch of people with boards, a few videos, and one guy introduced himself to me, I decided it would be cool to try it out. Right now, the chances of someone being exposed to footbag this way are slim to none.

And Ian, to address what you said - I'm not advocating that I want footbag to be a big name sport, but I do think that we could use a bigger playerbase if it means that we get to play with more people regularly. I think expanding to be more like the longboard scene would be great. The pros don't have six figure contracts or anything, but that community has a lot more gatherings of the 10-20 person size, which would be a blast to have in the footbag community as well.

One last thing - I think that we could do a few things to gain more interest when we're playing in public (and I realize that playing in public can get tedious) Sometimes I want nothing more than to school hard, and obviously then my focus isn't attracting new players. BUT, every once in a while I think a public session devoted to being "welcoming" could be a great thing. What this would mean, in my eyes, is that you pass to each other more often, focus on tricks that passersby can understand, and seem like you are having fun. Once we've gained their attention we can teach them the way of the hardcore shred machine.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 26 Mar 2010 04:18

Good points nathan and everyone else.

Part of the whole process is that new people need to pick up the torch now and again. Name the top 5 most influential/active promoters of footbag right now. Most of them have been performing their role for quite some time already. It's natural that it be this way - the people that step forward are continually looked at to continue stepping forward. But it's not necessarily healthy because burnout happens. edit: also, the "old guard" may not be in touch with the next wave is interested in.

Then again, if you let the fate of a sport rest on the shoulders of kids (no offense anyone) that's not good either. Kids are flaky, miss deadlines, are unorganized, unexperienced, their longevity for follow through is poor.

BUT.. there are exceptions. Barrett being a good one. The 21 year old me is another. Matt cross when he was starting out running events.

while I'm rambling... Part of it, I think, is that there's "no point" to the sport. I see players get awesome and leave. Or I see players get frustrated and leave. Or decent and leave. Because... what's the effing point?

The point is, it's fun, it's creative, it keeps you in good shape, it gives you a reason to travel places, it gives you a built in network of "friends" across the world, it's unique, it puts hair on your chest (oh ok, not that one)

hrdcorethndr1 · Post by **hrdcorethndr1** » 29 Mar 2010 07:02

The scene is finally growing slightly in my town, a handful of people show interest and a few of my friends are finally starting to play with me. I would love to go to a few jams on the east coast.
The only exposure i have ever had to players that play footbag better than me is when Matt Cross comes to town and we have a session, and thats only 3 times in the past year. I see internet videos but i feel so disconected. I wholeheartedly believe that if there were more jams;
A. people would be drawn to the sport (not massive, and turned stupid, but enough so that if i said i was going to have a jam in three months, that more than 3 kids from my town would show up.
B. people would stay playing longer, and wouldnt want to leave. When you are playing with other people, you don't just play footbag the whole time and do nothing else, you socialize, meet a lot of people, and just learn in general about a great hobby.
I personally would love to meet some more footbaggers from around my area and have a more involved scene, Some people may even find more meaning in playing because they can go show off the new tricks they have learned at the jam. It is very satisfying to land a trick or a string of tricks and be complimented by professionals... or by your friends, it feels good to just be good at something, and it feels better to be good at something in front of people.

The thing is, im dying for more exposure, i want to learn more, play more, and do more. I think that if people host jams, or promote a jam, or participate in a jam, people will come, people will play, people will have a fun time. Fun does not equal leave forever and quit. Basic result from a basic answer.

abstract · Post by **abstract** » 30 Mar 2010 09:02

i have been speaking with dante about hosting an event through Queens U in kingston during frosh week next september.

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/ ... webcam.asp

^^

this would be the potential venue i am looking into over the summer. i know the space can be rented, i just need to find the details. amazing outdoor space & during frosh week the exposure will be incredible.

agreed with jay, competition, even if organized casually, is super awesome good times.

Will Digges · Post by **Will Digges** » 30 Mar 2010 12:32

I haven't given up on the East Coast, I think it was just the winter. For east coast players, winter is just a hibernation period. Once spring hits we all come out of hiding. With GRASS to kick off the start of spring/summer tournaments, I'm already planning on traveling to 5 or so tournaments by the end of the summer. It's a little too soon to say that the East coast has fallen off, everyone come to GRASS and reunite!

I'm sure things will get moving again, footbag comes and goes in waves.

Peace