Why Lavers??

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 11 Jul 2010 08:07

Why is it that everyone swears by Rod Lavers? What's so special about them that make them good for footbag, and why, if they're so good for footbag in the first place, do they need to be modified? I can play JUST FINE with almost any pair of skater shoes, provided they're made out of something relatively soft for grip.

[Moved to B&E. -Moxie]

[Okay, this thread is closed. The person who started the thread got every answer he could have possibly wanted to his question. Nothing positive is being produced from this thread anymore. -Moxie]

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 11 Jul 2010 08:23

They have a good clipper spot an you modify them to improve the toe spot. Most people use them because they require a lot less modification than the gunit and clima.
http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=20276
http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=20730

Ramen God · Post by **Ramen God** » 11 Jul 2010 08:29

I guess you should just try them out, and see what they are like. I didn't think there was anything special about lavers until I got a pair.

WyrmFyre · Post by **WyrmFyre** » 11 Jul 2010 09:34

A couple of reasons I think. If someone was to ask "Whats the best shoe for footbag?" the response would be Rod Lavers, because theyre widely tried and tested.

You might also get the answer Quantums, or Nucleus, or Climas, or G-units, and that just hilights the other point, that there are not really a lot of "Best Shoes for Footbag" to choose from.

Personally I swear by them.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 11 Jul 2010 09:39

You can play fine in skater shoes I'm sure, but you would play better in lavers, guarantee it.

Everyone swears by Lavers because they are the best 'commercial' shoe. They do require some amount of cutting, but if you're uncomfortable modding them too heavily there are a couple unobtrusive mods that will not affect the looks or integrity of the shoe at all.

If you want a shoe that does not require modding, you can try the quantums or the nucleus. Quantums are discontinued, so I don't know if you would be able to find a pair. They are basically an even lighter version of Lavers that does not require modding. They're pretty flimsy and known for falling apart though.

I haven't played in the Nucleus, so I can't give you my opinion on them.

Good things about Lavers:
1. Lighter than most shoes.
2. Mesh, allows you to feel the bag on your foot.
3. Flat clipper area, slight indentation (does not curve outward)
4. Fits tightly on foot. No extra padding for the bag to bounce off of.
5. Flat, big toe area. Compared to other regular shoes, lavers have a very large toe area. In fact, they probably have the best toe area of all footbag shoes.

Bad things about Lavers:
1. Poor support compared to most regular shoes
2. Most common styles are pretty ugly.
3. Sole is a little slippery at first
4. Require modding (although arguably the easiest to mod of all shoes)

----

Good things about skate shoes:
1. You can kick the bag easily because of the extra padding
2. Generally good traction
3. Pretty flat surfaces, generally.

Bad things about skate shoes:
1. Everything else.

If you're just looking to kick a bag around, skate shoes will work fine. If you're going to take freestyle footbag seriously, you will want to get a pair of freestyle shoes asap. I suggest Lavers.

There are plenty of topics about Lavers on Modified, so this is a time where the search function probably would have helped.

I hope I answered your question.

mc · Post by mc » 11 Jul 2010 09:48

hey dude, I say don't even bother with them. After all, you can play "JUST FINE" as it is, and clearly, because they need to be modded, they're not right for footbag anyway.

hell, I can bust montage barefoot. You don't even need shoes at all. Sometimes it feels like all these experienced players who have been doing this for years longer than you have no idea what they're talking about.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 11 Jul 2010 12:57

I wasn't planning on bothering with them, just wondering what's so darn special about them and why people swear by them. I think people rely far too much on equipment in this kinda stuff anyway. This is looking just like the airsoft forums where everybody swore the UHC spring "MP5" was the best spring rifle you could buy for the price when it was a complete POS, and the stuff they were constantly bashing worked just fine. I see nothing wrong with my skater shoes. They have excellent grip and nice flat surfaces. I don't have to modify them whatsoever. Plus, things like making a big toebox with walls on two sides and a clipper rail I saw earlier today seems like the equivalent of using a game genie or those bumper rail things at the bowling alley. It's not quite cheating, but it's much more impressive when you can do the same thing without the crutch.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 11 Jul 2010 13:13

mc wrote:Sometimes it feels like all these experienced players who have been doing this for years longer than you have no idea what they're talking about.

I think that part of the problem is that new players are answering other new players' questions when they have no idea of what are the right answers (at no fault of their own other than their lack of experience).

That gets really confusing. New players should avoiding answering questions by other new players if they are not 100% sure of the answers. That goes for everyone up until Zac who gave a great answer.

It would be interesting if there was an "advice rating" for every user, and a kind of experienced player committee who decided on the rating for each user. That way, new players could have a better idea of from whom they are accepting information.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 11 Jul 2010 13:23

What was wrong with my post

That is why I chose lavers. They require less modding than climas/leather g units and more experienced players said you can fall into bad form by choosing g units because of their "bucket like clipper"

Post by **Zac Miley** » 11 Jul 2010 13:43

Magus86 wrote: I think people rely far too much on equipment in this kinda stuff anyway.

You're thinking wrong. There is no way to 'cheat' at footbag.

You appear to me as ultra-cynical. That's ok, but in a sport like freestyle footbag, which is so different from anything else, you're not going to have any sort of experience to back up your claims.

You know nothing about footbag shoes, so you can either trust what the people on here say and try out the many types that are recommended, or you can be doomed to sucking at hack for a long time.

Also, if you're not planning on taking freestyle seriously, this forum is not for you.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 11 Jul 2010 14:17

Ultra Cynical is right.

Vasek Klouda and Damian Gielnicki wear lavers.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 11 Jul 2010 14:31

I never said there was a way to cheat at footbag, and I never claimed to know anything about footbag shoes(I do, however, know that my skater shoes work just fine), but I don't see the point in buying a particular shoe to play a certain sport when they're not made for that sport and need to be modified anyway. What's wrong with being cynical anyway? Should I just believe anything that comes out of anybody's mouth? If someone on here says a Guatemalan crochet bag is better than an abshire 32, should I believe it? Probably not, and I doubt you'd disagree. However, if I wasn't cynical, I would believe that. So what's wrong with being cynical?

When I said people rely way too much on equipment, I wasn't just referring to footbag, by the way...

Okay, so if I plan to take footbag freestyle "seriously," I need to buy Rod Lavers. And if I don't, I'm not taking it seriously and therefore "don't belong here...?"

I'm sorry, I didn't realize this forum was only for elitist snobs who must strive to be the best. I thought it was a place to find information and ask questions so I can make more informed decisions... Excuse me all to hell. Way to alienate other people who like the same game you do for questioning something...

Post by **Zac Miley** » 11 Jul 2010 14:51

You implied that ability comes largely from the equipment, which, like you said, is not quite cheating. That implies that you think it is unfair. You're wrong. Footbag has shoes that are made for it if you are interested in those, like I told you in my post earlier. Lavers are the cheapest, most effective alternative to specially made footbag shoes.

I'm very cynical too. It took me about six months to buy my first pair of Lavers. In my post I also said that there is nothing wrong with being cynical, just that in this case you were being too cynical because you know nothing about shoes. You don't see the point, but I gave you the point(s). My post was very clear.

You can stay and post on this forum all that you want, but if you continue posting questions that already have answers and refusing answers from people who have been freestyling for 5+ years (while not taking the sport seriously yourself), no one is going to like you.

This is a great place for information. My post earlier was very informative, even if it has been posted in 20 other threads.

Honestly, you're being ridiculous. People play in Lavers because they're better than skate shoes. They're the same price, and they require an hour of scissor/knife work.

After maybe 2 months of practicing toe stalls on your lavers, you will notice that the bag does not touch the walls. Some people even cut them off, which is actually considered a no-no because it encourages sloppy pixie sets. The most important thing about the toes on lavers is that they are flat, and the fabric is flexible.

If you have any other questions like the one that started this or the chainmail bag thread, feel free to pm me. I like answering questions.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 11 Jul 2010 15:07

Zac Miley wrote:You implied that ability comes largely from the equipment, which, like you said, is not quite cheating. That implies that you think it is unfair.

No, that's not at all what I was saying. I was saying that people rely too much on the equipment, as in they believe that without buying a certain specific piece of equipment, one will automatically suck at whatever sport/game/activity you're doing, and that's not the case. Even if that somehow is the case with footbag, and I highly doubt it is, I'm not gonna go out and buy a special pair of shoes just for footbag. I play it to pass time and exercise, and because it's just fun to me. I like to play by myself and with others at random times. I don't feel like modifying my shoes either. I'll play in what I normally wear.

What I was saying about the toebox and the clipper rail is not that it's like cheating at all, but that it would be more impressive if you can do the same thing without that crap. And besides, what if I put powerful magnets inside my shoes to help me stall a footbag filled with metal? Would that still be impressive? Probably not, and while I'm not saying that putting magnets in your shoes and making a toebox are equivalent, they fall under the same category, along with hollowing out a baseball bat. The only difference here is that footbag isn't some big competitive sport that a ton of people care about with all kinds of rules and regulations.

By the way, the lavers don't look all that different from skater shoes anyway.

mc · Post by mc » 11 Jul 2010 15:12

"People assuming that others will not succeed because they have not purchased a particular piece of equipment" is not an example of "relying too much on equipment", so if that's what you meant by "rely etc" you picked the wrong words.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 11 Jul 2010 15:18

Yeah, and tennis should ban all new racquets.

You're trolling man. If you're not going to buy the shoes no matter what we say, then take your 'perfectly fine' skate shoes and enjoy your 50 kicks and jesters.

Also, magnets would make the bag stick and it would be impossible to set.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 11 Jul 2010 16:23

post a pic of these amazing skateboard shoes maybe they will changethe sport of footbag (no sarcasm)

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 11 Jul 2010 16:40

I never said tennis should ban new rackets or that improvements on existing equipment is bad... I also never said my skater shoes were amazing at any point in time. I don't care how many kicks I can or can't do in a row, it means jack shit to me because this is a GAME, and I play it for FUN.

The magnets would work, but it would depend on how strong the magnets are. However, whether or not it would work is irrelevant. If it would work, it wouldn't be nearly as impressive for me to be able to stall a footbag with them, and that was my point. I would think being able to do a toe stall on a pair of oldass canvas converse sneakers with the hard slick rubber toe would be much more impressive than on a pair of modified lavers or skater shoes.

These are the shoes I wear, and I don't care if I change anything about footbag or not... I never set out to in the first place.

Matt K · Post by **Matt K** » 11 Jul 2010 18:15

Playing baseball with milk cartons for gloves and pipes for bats would be more impressive, but it's not the ideal way to play it.

Playing footbag in skate shoes, and playing at the same level as people who play in lavers is also impressive, but it is damn hard to do it.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 11 Jul 2010 18:54

Maybe so, but it doesn't really matter to me if I can play at the same level or not because like I said, I do this for fun, not to be good or the best or whatever. And I think there's a much larger difference between Lavers and the shoes I wear(and the disadvantage they might give me) than there is between milk cartons and pipes and gloves and bats.