general question: who are the mods these days, and why haven't they been doing their job?
keep in mind every one how fast the turn over is at this stage of the game...
Why Lavers??
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hacksterbator
- Washed-Up Child Star
- Posts: 4141
- Joined: 12 Jul 2003 18:33
- Location: Winterpeg, Manisnowba
- Contact:
My comment about Twisted Metal 3 had nothing to do with not trying Lavers. At that point I had plans to try them and possibly buy them, but someone suggested that I just buy the damn things cuz they can be returned. I've never worn Adidas shoes before, and I've never worn tennis shoes. I have no idea how they'll fit me or if they'll be comfortable or not. Just because I can return them doesn't mean I feel like wasting my time, and it still doesn't address the issue of lack of money.
I didn't say anything about them not being good shoes. I questioned having to mod them because it doesn't make sense to me that they're good for footbag if you have to modify them in order for them to fit that role. Now I know that not everybody mods them. I didn't understand, that's why I asked... But that seems to be a cardinal sin around here.
I was told I shouldn't be posting here WAY before any of this gigantic flame war, so your reason for not caring or thinking I should be told that is irrelevant.
So you're saying that I should show gratitude to Flex and Nick by being nice to the others who put words in my mouth and flamed the shit out of me based on things I didn't even say?
You don't know when exactly I decided to try lavers, and it doesn't matter how many posts I made before that. And posting a thread here to learn more to be told that I shouldn't be posting here because I'm a bit skeptical and confused is going to make me care about footbag a shitload less.
I saw people making an ass out of me for supposedly claiming I'm as good as anybody here in lavers with my vans, which I never said in the first place. I also saw people telling me to buy lavers.
Like I said before, if this is the result of asking this community a simple question and being skeptical, then I don't care if I'm welcome or not. I want nothing to do with a community like that, or at least not the parts of it that made it that way. I don't play footbag to be a part of anything. I don't play foootbag to make friends. I don't play footbag to be recognized or worshiped, and I don't automatically look down on people who aren't as good at something as I am, or people who aren't quite as well informed. You act as though I'm the only one who did anything "out of line," as you call it.
And it DOESN'T matter to me who any of you are. You can call it whatever you like, but that's the truth. You're better at keeping a little ball in the air than I am, so because of that I should just bow down, worship the ground you all walk on, and take everything I'm told from this community as gospel? Again, if that's how this community feels, I want no part in it. I want nothing to do with anyone who tells me I'm wrong for questioning something that I don't understand. And I also want no part in a community that thinks I'm to blame for their misinterpretations of what comes out of my mouth.
I'm not "trying to fight everyone." I'm simply not taking shit from run of the mill forum goons.
I don't care if you agree with my reasons for not just going out and buying them or not. I just pointed out how you misread or misunderstood what I said because you thought I was using TM3 as a reason not to TRY lavers, which is not the case. I wasn't using it as a reason not to buy them either, but rather pointing out an example of when it was a bad decision to not try something first because money was wasted, and people were disappointed. You'll probably just choose to ignore the fact that you were wrong and continue bitching at me about other crap. You still didn't explain how any of that is a "silly ass excuse." AND, you claimed I was giving "silly ass excuses" AFTER I said I didn't have the money to buy them. Whether you choose to accept it or not, you're wrong in this regard.Magus86 wrote:free shipping and free returns are nice, except that I still have to have the money to pay for the shoes in the first place, which I do not. Plus, I wouldn't know what size to get. I have no idea how they run or how they feel on my feet at all. And for some reason, my left foot is bigger than my right foot. I'm not spending money on something I haven't tried, end of story. I made that mistake with Twisted Metal 3, and I'm not gonna make it again. I learned my lesson.
I didn't say anything about them not being good shoes. I questioned having to mod them because it doesn't make sense to me that they're good for footbag if you have to modify them in order for them to fit that role. Now I know that not everybody mods them. I didn't understand, that's why I asked... But that seems to be a cardinal sin around here.
I was told I shouldn't be posting here WAY before any of this gigantic flame war, so your reason for not caring or thinking I should be told that is irrelevant.
So you're saying that I should show gratitude to Flex and Nick by being nice to the others who put words in my mouth and flamed the shit out of me based on things I didn't even say?
You don't know when exactly I decided to try lavers, and it doesn't matter how many posts I made before that. And posting a thread here to learn more to be told that I shouldn't be posting here because I'm a bit skeptical and confused is going to make me care about footbag a shitload less.
I saw people making an ass out of me for supposedly claiming I'm as good as anybody here in lavers with my vans, which I never said in the first place. I also saw people telling me to buy lavers.
Like I said before, if this is the result of asking this community a simple question and being skeptical, then I don't care if I'm welcome or not. I want nothing to do with a community like that, or at least not the parts of it that made it that way. I don't play footbag to be a part of anything. I don't play foootbag to make friends. I don't play footbag to be recognized or worshiped, and I don't automatically look down on people who aren't as good at something as I am, or people who aren't quite as well informed. You act as though I'm the only one who did anything "out of line," as you call it.
And it DOESN'T matter to me who any of you are. You can call it whatever you like, but that's the truth. You're better at keeping a little ball in the air than I am, so because of that I should just bow down, worship the ground you all walk on, and take everything I'm told from this community as gospel? Again, if that's how this community feels, I want no part in it. I want nothing to do with anyone who tells me I'm wrong for questioning something that I don't understand. And I also want no part in a community that thinks I'm to blame for their misinterpretations of what comes out of my mouth.
I'm not "trying to fight everyone." I'm simply not taking shit from run of the mill forum goons.
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Zac Miley
- Post Master General
- Posts: 5953
- Joined: 04 Jun 2006 12:11
- Location: Kansas City, MO
- Contact:
My last post in this thread. I mean no disrespect or hostility and I'm sorry if you interpreted anything else I've said as hostile or disrespectful. I'm serious.
Every single person that has posted in here that I have met (most, I think), I can guarantee you is a good person. All of them are truly trying to be helpful, but it's really hard when someone is interpreting everything as insulting. You're saying things that implicate everyone else as 'misinterpreters' but in actuality, you're the biggest culprit. I promise that no one was trying to force the shoes on you like you've understood, and I also promise that I did not mean to insinuate that you were unwelcome. I meant that, if you're going to put down/devalue/ignore the merits of freestyle footbag, which includes the usage of Lavers, then it is very likely that you will glean nothing from the forum. The shoes do have merits, and you refused to acknowledge them. If you can point out at any time where you say you understand why Lavers are good, I'll retract that.
You'll notice, if you read through this thread again, that everyone is being defended by another player. It's not coincidental, we really do all like each other. If you apply logic to that, I think you would guess that this is a very solid, supportive community. Matt is still right. I would gladly join in any circle that you're in if we're at the same jam, and I'd attempt to help you.
So this little bit about respecting the community has nothing to do with playing ability. You haven't met these people, obviously, so you don't know how nice, generous, or accepting they are (except from the several great answers you got in this thread, even after it turned sour). Is it really so wrong to respect someone you haven't met, though? I haven't really seen a single 'thanks' from you until Damon sent you a free pair of shoes. If that's what it takes for a thank you, I don't know how you're going to get anywhere in life. I don't mean that as an insult, so please apply some critical thinking to it before you interpret it as one.
The internet is an awful place to meet people if that's going to be your only interaction with them. Inevitably, people hate each other because of the lack of restraint. If you realize this, you can take each post with a grain of salt and not let each one get to you so badly, and also realize there's a real person behind each post that's most likely not meaning to hurt your feelings.
For evidence of how the community treats noobs, go read the first few topics that I made. I was incredibly annoying, and got mad more than once, but look! I'm still standing and have a best friend who lives a thousand miles away.
Don't reject us yet, man. Go to a jam, enjoy our company, then state your opinion on us.
My offer still stands. PM me any questions you have.
P.S.
Damon, that was really nice of you.
Every single person that has posted in here that I have met (most, I think), I can guarantee you is a good person. All of them are truly trying to be helpful, but it's really hard when someone is interpreting everything as insulting. You're saying things that implicate everyone else as 'misinterpreters' but in actuality, you're the biggest culprit. I promise that no one was trying to force the shoes on you like you've understood, and I also promise that I did not mean to insinuate that you were unwelcome. I meant that, if you're going to put down/devalue/ignore the merits of freestyle footbag, which includes the usage of Lavers, then it is very likely that you will glean nothing from the forum. The shoes do have merits, and you refused to acknowledge them. If you can point out at any time where you say you understand why Lavers are good, I'll retract that.
No one is looking down on you because they are better at hack. In reality, you are being overly defensive (ironically very similar to offensive) and that is why you're getting hostile posts. Although every reasonable person here has said that the footbag community is wonderful (it is), we're still human, and we respond to hostility like everyone else.Magus86 wrote:Like I said before, if this is the result of asking this community a simple question and being skeptical, then I don't care if I'm welcome or not. I want nothing to do with a community like that, or at least not the parts of it that made it that way. I don't play footbag to be a part of anything. I don't play foootbag to make friends. I don't play footbag to be recognized or worshiped, and I don't automatically look down on people who aren't as good at something as I am, or people who aren't quite as well informed. You act as though I'm the only one who did anything "out of line," as you call it.
And it DOESN'T matter to me who any of you are. You can call it whatever you like, but that's the truth. You're better at keeping a little ball in the air than I am, so because of that I should just bow down, worship the ground you all walk on, and take everything I'm told from this community as gospel? Again, if that's how this community feels, I want no part in it. I want nothing to do with anyone who tells me I'm wrong for questioning something that I don't understand. And I also want no part in a community that thinks I'm to blame for their misinterpretations of what comes out of my mouth.
You'll notice, if you read through this thread again, that everyone is being defended by another player. It's not coincidental, we really do all like each other. If you apply logic to that, I think you would guess that this is a very solid, supportive community. Matt is still right. I would gladly join in any circle that you're in if we're at the same jam, and I'd attempt to help you.
So this little bit about respecting the community has nothing to do with playing ability. You haven't met these people, obviously, so you don't know how nice, generous, or accepting they are (except from the several great answers you got in this thread, even after it turned sour). Is it really so wrong to respect someone you haven't met, though? I haven't really seen a single 'thanks' from you until Damon sent you a free pair of shoes. If that's what it takes for a thank you, I don't know how you're going to get anywhere in life. I don't mean that as an insult, so please apply some critical thinking to it before you interpret it as one.
The internet is an awful place to meet people if that's going to be your only interaction with them. Inevitably, people hate each other because of the lack of restraint. If you realize this, you can take each post with a grain of salt and not let each one get to you so badly, and also realize there's a real person behind each post that's most likely not meaning to hurt your feelings.
For evidence of how the community treats noobs, go read the first few topics that I made. I was incredibly annoying, and got mad more than once, but look! I'm still standing and have a best friend who lives a thousand miles away.
Don't reject us yet, man. Go to a jam, enjoy our company, then state your opinion on us.
My offer still stands. PM me any questions you have.
P.S.
Damon, that was really nice of you.
Jay (8:06:01 PM): Bu-bu-buu-buug--Looks up, and the feeling goes away like a sneeze-bu-buuuh-BULLLSHITTT
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
^my response to flex's first post in this thread. I thanked him long before he said anything about sending me any shoes.Magus86 wrote:Flex, I would not call you a snob because you have not yet acted like one. I call 'em as I see 'em. Thank you for actually understanding how someone can do something casually for fun and not striving to be the best and for not looking down on me just because I'm relatively new to the sport and the forum.
Thank you for your constructive answer and not trying to shove the shoes down my throat like so many others. However, I want to point out that I have no problem doing a toe stall with my vans or my converse shoes. A clipper stall is another story, but I think that has more to do with the fact that I'm new to this and would have no idea what "proper" form is for doing it in the first place than it has to do with what shoes I'm wearing. I have a friend who can do clipper stalls just fine with skater shoes. He also does a lot of odd unconventional tricks that the snobs would probably talk down on him for doing, like catching the footbag in his mouth or behind his knee, between his calf and thigh. While that's probably not incredibly impressive, it doesn't matter because it was never supposed to be. We do it for fun, and we do odd things to make each other laugh. This is not about a competition. It's not about points. It's not about seeing who can do the most complicated trick. It's about FUN and nothing more.
Zac, I can't acknowledge that the shoes have "merit" without seeing that firsthand. Otherwise, it's not acknowledgement, it's talking out of my ass, because it's not based on any actual knowledge. It's only based on what I've heard. However, I also never said that they do not. I don't know either way until I try. If I saw that everybody loves one thing and hates another, and then I go around saying that one is great and the other sucks, I'm no better than the people I complained about on the airsoft forums. I'd rather find out for myself before I go spreading shit. And I've also found thru my own personal experience that just because most people believe or say something, that doesn't make it true. I believe that Lavers make it easier. I don't know how much easier though, and no matter what shoes(if any) are worn, one still has to perform the proper action. I don't believe they're quite as big a factor in how good you are as some of you are putting on, though. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but I won't know until I try. I'm not gonna say either way whether the shoes are good or not before that because that would just be stupid.
Wow, a whole page overnight. This should end, so I think this may be of assistance.
Magus86 wrote:I wasn't planning on bothering with them, just wondering what's so darn special about them and why people swear by them. I think people rely far too much on equipment in this kinda stuff anyway. This is looking just like the airsoft forums where everybody swore the UHC spring "MP5" was the best spring rifle you could buy for the price when it was a complete POS, and the stuff they were constantly bashing worked just fine. I see nothing wrong with my skater shoes. They have excellent grip and nice flat surfaces. I don't have to modify them whatsoever. Plus, things like making a big toebox with walls on two sides and a clipper rail I saw earlier today seems like the equivalent of using a game genie or those bumper rail things at the bowling alley. It's not quite cheating, but it's much more impressive when you can do the same thing without the crutch.
Zac Miley wrote:You're thinking wrong. There is no way to 'cheat' at footbag.Magus86 wrote: I think people rely far too much on equipment in this kinda stuff anyway.
You appear to me as ultra-cynical. That's ok, but in a sport like freestyle footbag, which is so different from anything else, you're not going to have any sort of experience to back up your claims.
You know nothing about footbag shoes, so you can either trust what the people on here say and try out the many types that are recommended, or you can be doomed to sucking at hack for a long time.
Also, if you're not planning on taking freestyle seriously, this forum is not for you.
I Think the war was started with these posts.Magus86 wrote:I never said there was a way to cheat at footbag, and I never claimed to know anything about footbag shoes(I do, however, know that my skater shoes work just fine), but I don't see the point in buying a particular shoe to play a certain sport when they're not made for that sport and need to be modified anyway. What's wrong with being cynical anyway? Should I just believe anything that comes out of anybody's mouth? If someone on here says a Guatemalan crochet bag is better than an abshire 32, should I believe it? Probably not, and I doubt you'd disagree. However, if I wasn't cynical, I would believe that. So what's wrong with being cynical?
When I said people rely way too much on equipment, I wasn't just referring to footbag, by the way...
Okay, so if I plan to take footbag freestyle "seriously," I need to buy Rod Lavers. And if I don't, I'm not taking it seriously and therefore "don't belong here...?"
I'm sorry, I didn't realize this forum was only for elitist snobs who must strive to be the best. I thought it was a place to find information and ask questions so I can make more informed decisions... Excuse me all to hell. Way to alienate other people who like the same game you do for questioning something...
Thank you Zac!
Think critically as Zac has said. The few true assholes on this forum are recognized by the majority of players on this forum. In this thread I haven't seen any posting.
If Zac is willing to reach out then I think others may also. Let's all change our tones and start over.
Hi,
My name is Damon, but you can call me Flex. I have been playing since '96. I play in lavers because I can't find G Units and I trashed my Nucleus.
Welcome to modified. I hope you find footbag as rewarding as I.
~ peace
Think critically as Zac has said. The few true assholes on this forum are recognized by the majority of players on this forum. In this thread I haven't seen any posting.
If Zac is willing to reach out then I think others may also. Let's all change our tones and start over.
Hi,
My name is Damon, but you can call me Flex. I have been playing since '96. I play in lavers because I can't find G Units and I trashed my Nucleus.
Welcome to modified. I hope you find footbag as rewarding as I.
~ peace
Go out and shred already.
~Damon Mathews
~Damon Mathews
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Zac Miley
- Post Master General
- Posts: 5953
- Joined: 04 Jun 2006 12:11
- Location: Kansas City, MO
- Contact:
Ok, one place. Got me.Magus86 wrote:^my response to flex's first post in this thread. I thanked him long before he said anything about sending me any shoes.Magus86 wrote:Flex, I would not call you a snob because you have not yet acted like one. I call 'em as I see 'em. Thank you for actually understanding how someone can do something casually for fun and not striving to be the best and for not looking down on me just because I'm relatively new to the sport and the forum.
Thank you for your constructive answer and not trying to shove the shoes down my throat like so many others. However, I want to point out that I have no problem doing a toe stall with my vans or my converse shoes. A clipper stall is another story, but I think that has more to do with the fact that I'm new to this and would have no idea what "proper" form is for doing it in the first place than it has to do with what shoes I'm wearing. I have a friend who can do clipper stalls just fine with skater shoes. He also does a lot of odd unconventional tricks that the snobs would probably talk down on him for doing, like catching the footbag in his mouth or behind his knee, between his calf and thigh. While that's probably not incredibly impressive, it doesn't matter because it was never supposed to be. We do it for fun, and we do odd things to make each other laugh. This is not about a competition. It's not about points. It's not about seeing who can do the most complicated trick. It's about FUN and nothing more.
Zac, I can't acknowledge that the shoes have "merit" without seeing that firsthand. Otherwise, it's not acknowledgement, it's talking out of my ass, because it's not based on any actual knowledge. It's only based on what I've heard. However, I also never said that they do not. I don't know either way until I try. If I saw that everybody loves one thing and hates another, and then I go around saying that one is great and the other sucks, I'm no better than the people I complained about on the airsoft forums. I'd rather find out for myself before I go spreading shit. And I've also found thru my own personal experience that just because most people believe or say something, that doesn't make it true. I believe that Lavers make it easier. I don't know how much easier though, and no matter what shoes(if any) are worn, one still has to perform the proper action. I don't believe they're quite as big a factor in how good you are as some of you are putting on, though. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but I won't know until I try. I'm not gonna say either way whether the shoes are good or not before that because that would just be stupid.
What I meant by acknowledging that they have merit was actually acknowledging that the opinions of people who have been using Lavers for 5 years have merit, and that perhaps you understand what could possibily make them good, even though you haven't tried them.
Now that you will have a pair, I'd like to hear what you think of them when you get them. And since they're free, you should sharpie the shit out of them.
Jay (8:06:01 PM): Bu-bu-buu-buug--Looks up, and the feeling goes away like a sneeze-bu-buuuh-BULLLSHITTT
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3 ... 1126622867
Shipping receipt
insured for $50. So they will get there. Have fun!
Shipping receipt
insured for $50. So they will get there. Have fun!Go out and shred already.
~Damon Mathews
~Damon Mathews
Again, acknowledging that would be impossible without first confirming that you know what you're talking about. That isn't to say that I think you don't, but rather that I don't know for sure whether anybody here does or not as soon as I start posting here. I don't know who does and who doesn't. I have NO basis whatsoever. However, I figured that there's a good chance at least someone here has a clue, which is why I asked my question here in the first place. If I initially thought you were all morons, I would never have bothered. Besides, I don't know how long any of you have been using Lavers without being told. And even if you tell me, I still don't really know. People spew bullshit all over the internet all the time. I don't automatically assume everything I hear is false, but I don't automatically take it as gospel either. I observe as much as I can and make an educated guess until I can confirm or deny information for myself. I don't know why that's considered arrogant.Zac Miley wrote:Ok, one place. Got me.Magus86 wrote:^my response to flex's first post in this thread. I thanked him long before he said anything about sending me any shoes.Magus86 wrote:Flex, I would not call you a snob because you have not yet acted like one. I call 'em as I see 'em. Thank you for actually understanding how someone can do something casually for fun and not striving to be the best and for not looking down on me just because I'm relatively new to the sport and the forum.
Thank you for your constructive answer and not trying to shove the shoes down my throat like so many others. However, I want to point out that I have no problem doing a toe stall with my vans or my converse shoes. A clipper stall is another story, but I think that has more to do with the fact that I'm new to this and would have no idea what "proper" form is for doing it in the first place than it has to do with what shoes I'm wearing. I have a friend who can do clipper stalls just fine with skater shoes. He also does a lot of odd unconventional tricks that the snobs would probably talk down on him for doing, like catching the footbag in his mouth or behind his knee, between his calf and thigh. While that's probably not incredibly impressive, it doesn't matter because it was never supposed to be. We do it for fun, and we do odd things to make each other laugh. This is not about a competition. It's not about points. It's not about seeing who can do the most complicated trick. It's about FUN and nothing more.
Zac, I can't acknowledge that the shoes have "merit" without seeing that firsthand. Otherwise, it's not acknowledgement, it's talking out of my ass, because it's not based on any actual knowledge. It's only based on what I've heard. However, I also never said that they do not. I don't know either way until I try. If I saw that everybody loves one thing and hates another, and then I go around saying that one is great and the other sucks, I'm no better than the people I complained about on the airsoft forums. I'd rather find out for myself before I go spreading shit. And I've also found thru my own personal experience that just because most people believe or say something, that doesn't make it true. I believe that Lavers make it easier. I don't know how much easier though, and no matter what shoes(if any) are worn, one still has to perform the proper action. I don't believe they're quite as big a factor in how good you are as some of you are putting on, though. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but I won't know until I try. I'm not gonna say either way whether the shoes are good or not before that because that would just be stupid.
What I meant by acknowledging that they have merit was actually acknowledging that the opinions of people who have been using Lavers for 5 years have merit, and that perhaps you understand what could possibily make them good, even though you haven't tried them.
Now that you will have a pair, I'd like to hear what you think of them when you get them. And since they're free, you should sharpie the shit out of them.
I'd be happy to let you know how I like them once I get them, but I dunno about the sharpie. I like to do my art with a pencil, but that doesn't work too well on shoes.
Last edited by Magus86 on 24 Jul 2010 07:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank_Sinatra
- Avenging Disco Godfather
- Posts: 1660
- Joined: 09 Jan 2007 12:43
- Location: Chicago, IL
Not having money right now was the only decent reason you gave. Even that is not an insurmountable obstacle.Magus86 wrote:You still didn't explain how any of that is a "silly ass excuse." AND, you claimed I was giving "silly ass excuses" AFTER I said I didn't have the money to buy them. Whether you choose to accept it or not, you're wrong in this regard.
Oh, whatever. This is pointless, Frank. I'm not responding to you anymore. I didn't say it was insurmountable, but I barely make more than what I need to pay in bills, and that doesn't change the fact that I want to try on a pair of shoes and make sure they're comfortable before I fork over any cash for them. That's such a simple concept, I don't know why you can't get it thru your head. Until you can, I have nothing to say to you.
Last edited by Magus86 on 24 Jul 2010 08:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank_Sinatra
- Avenging Disco Godfather
- Posts: 1660
- Joined: 09 Jan 2007 12:43
- Location: Chicago, IL
One more thing:
How would you feel if someone walked up to you at work, or wherever, and said "it doesn't matter who you are"? Probably wouldn't feel that good.
But yes, you should listen to the people in this community when you ask a question about footbag. Nearly all of the people who will try to answer your question know more than you.
That's not what anyone is saying. Treat people like they're real human beings, not just text on a screen, and try being nice. That's it.Magus86 wrote:And it DOESN'T matter to me who any of you are. You can call it whatever you like, but that's the truth. You're better at keeping a little ball in the air than I am, so because of that I should just bow down, worship the ground you all walk on, and take everything I'm told from this community as gospel?
How would you feel if someone walked up to you at work, or wherever, and said "it doesn't matter who you are"? Probably wouldn't feel that good.
But yes, you should listen to the people in this community when you ask a question about footbag. Nearly all of the people who will try to answer your question know more than you.
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hacksterbator
- Washed-Up Child Star
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Okay, sorry, I said I wasn't responding anymore to you, but I have to say at least one last thing. I wouldn't give a rat's ass if a customer told me they don't care who I am. I already know they don't care who I am, and I never expected them to care. I'm not anyone important, and I know that. And it doesn't bother me one bit. I'm just the one who counts their pills and takes their money. And they're just the ones who come in to get their pills, providing me with a paycheck.
I'm well aware of the fact that the text on this forum didn't generate itself. It was made by people. But being a human doesn't make you special or entitle you to respect or give you immunity to being questioned. that's what we all are. Unless there's a monkey on the forum I don't know about or something, anyway. And just because someone knows more than I do about the shoes doesn't mean they'll know whether or not they'll fit me comfortably. They don't have my feet.
Oh shit, I just upgraded to "shredalicious," lol. I don't think that title is being used properly.
I'm well aware of the fact that the text on this forum didn't generate itself. It was made by people. But being a human doesn't make you special or entitle you to respect or give you immunity to being questioned. that's what we all are. Unless there's a monkey on the forum I don't know about or something, anyway. And just because someone knows more than I do about the shoes doesn't mean they'll know whether or not they'll fit me comfortably. They don't have my feet.
Oh shit, I just upgraded to "shredalicious," lol. I don't think that title is being used properly.
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hacksterbator
- Washed-Up Child Star
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- Joined: 12 Jul 2003 18:33
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Zac Miley
- Post Master General
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- Location: Kansas City, MO
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The sharpie thing was a joke, I do pencil drawings too.
Check out the Post Your Artwork thread in Arts & Leisure, and post some there. I don't like being the only one.
Check out the Post Your Artwork thread in Arts & Leisure, and post some there. I don't like being the only one.
Jay (8:06:01 PM): Bu-bu-buu-buug--Looks up, and the feeling goes away like a sneeze-bu-buuuh-BULLLSHITTT
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
This topic is fairly amusing.
When I started playing footbag I had crappy puma running shoes and a guatamalan crocheted footbag. With this combination I managed to learn all the basics. I then managed to get some better footbags. Without any kind of modified shoes, or shoes that were any good for anything, I managed to get to the stage where I could hit a 5 add trick, and a fairly good range of 3 and 4 add tricks. At this stage I doubt I could string together 5 tricks though.
At this point I attended my first tournament - the NSW Footbag Championships in the summer of 2002/2003 (our summers go across years in the Southern Hemisphere). Here I got to play with the best footbaggers in Australia, and it was essentially the first time I'd played with other freestylers. As I recall I learnt 9 new tricks on the two days of footbag. One of the comments that many of these other footbaggers told me was that many of the tricks I was dropping, I would hit if I had lavers. It turned out one of them was my shoe size. I had footed the move "assassin" - pixie ducking mirage - about 10 times in a row, and so he gave me his shoes (and by gave, I mean gave to keep) and within minutes, as soon as I'd figured out the differences in the shoes, I hit the trick.
At the point where I was given my first pair of Lavers I couldn't play tiltless - that is to say that I couldn't string together 2 add tricks for more than a couple of contacts. Within 4 months of getting my first pair of lavers I was playing completely guiltless (3 add tricks and up).
These days I don't use Lavers and I have no intention of going back to them. However there's no doubt in my mind that moving to some kind of dedicated footbag shoe makes an enormous difference to your game. I say this as somebody who is perhaps the biggest skeptic of everything on this forum, who has held world records in footbag, who has been playing for almost 10 years, who has won countless national titles and who cannot help but analyse everything in my life, to the point where I could write you a 3000 word essay on the best part of your foot to stall the bag when you do a clipper, and how some places are better than others for different moves.
So to answer the question; "why lavers?" it's because they make doing freestyle footbag significantly easier than not wearing lavers (unless you have one of the few alternatives). After that, it really depends on your personal values. Do you want to get better at freestyle footbag? How much is it worth to you? Even if you got Lavers, would you put in the hours and hours of practice it takes to get better?
Reading through the answers, people's inability to understand what you're saying aside, I feel like people have answered your question very well (some a lot better than others). If, having read the discussion to this point you're still not convinced about Lavers then I'd have to say that you don't share the values of this forum, and it probably would be a waste of time and money to get Lavers.
On the other hand, if the issue is just money, then wait, save and sacrifice. The reason I waited until somebody gave me a pair of lavers was because I wasn't convinced that they would make any difference (like you), and because I couldn't afford it. However after playing in a pair for myself I realised just how important good shoes are. Unfortunately the pair I had been given were already on their last legs. Around this time, being still a high school student, I had a job working as a farm labourer crawling along the ground picking up tulip bulbs. The very first thing I bought from this job was a case of beer, but the second thing was Lavers.
Footbag has been one of the most important things in my life. I've made great friends through it, it's helped me through the worst periods of my life, it's currently an important source of income, and it's taught me about hard work, discipline and their rewards.
So the way I see it your question has been answered. You just now need to decide whether you can see enough value in footbag to get yourself a pair of lavers. It doesn't have to be right now, but you can decide to save up and buy them when you can afford it. Or, if footbag isn't important to you, you can not get them and continue at your current level. That's definitely the easy option, and I'm sure that having never performed in front of 13,000 people or hit nemesis for the first time, you can't really feel what you're missing enough, and it would be an understandable choice to make.
When I started playing footbag I had crappy puma running shoes and a guatamalan crocheted footbag. With this combination I managed to learn all the basics. I then managed to get some better footbags. Without any kind of modified shoes, or shoes that were any good for anything, I managed to get to the stage where I could hit a 5 add trick, and a fairly good range of 3 and 4 add tricks. At this stage I doubt I could string together 5 tricks though.
At this point I attended my first tournament - the NSW Footbag Championships in the summer of 2002/2003 (our summers go across years in the Southern Hemisphere). Here I got to play with the best footbaggers in Australia, and it was essentially the first time I'd played with other freestylers. As I recall I learnt 9 new tricks on the two days of footbag. One of the comments that many of these other footbaggers told me was that many of the tricks I was dropping, I would hit if I had lavers. It turned out one of them was my shoe size. I had footed the move "assassin" - pixie ducking mirage - about 10 times in a row, and so he gave me his shoes (and by gave, I mean gave to keep) and within minutes, as soon as I'd figured out the differences in the shoes, I hit the trick.
At the point where I was given my first pair of Lavers I couldn't play tiltless - that is to say that I couldn't string together 2 add tricks for more than a couple of contacts. Within 4 months of getting my first pair of lavers I was playing completely guiltless (3 add tricks and up).
These days I don't use Lavers and I have no intention of going back to them. However there's no doubt in my mind that moving to some kind of dedicated footbag shoe makes an enormous difference to your game. I say this as somebody who is perhaps the biggest skeptic of everything on this forum, who has held world records in footbag, who has been playing for almost 10 years, who has won countless national titles and who cannot help but analyse everything in my life, to the point where I could write you a 3000 word essay on the best part of your foot to stall the bag when you do a clipper, and how some places are better than others for different moves.
So to answer the question; "why lavers?" it's because they make doing freestyle footbag significantly easier than not wearing lavers (unless you have one of the few alternatives). After that, it really depends on your personal values. Do you want to get better at freestyle footbag? How much is it worth to you? Even if you got Lavers, would you put in the hours and hours of practice it takes to get better?
Reading through the answers, people's inability to understand what you're saying aside, I feel like people have answered your question very well (some a lot better than others). If, having read the discussion to this point you're still not convinced about Lavers then I'd have to say that you don't share the values of this forum, and it probably would be a waste of time and money to get Lavers.
On the other hand, if the issue is just money, then wait, save and sacrifice. The reason I waited until somebody gave me a pair of lavers was because I wasn't convinced that they would make any difference (like you), and because I couldn't afford it. However after playing in a pair for myself I realised just how important good shoes are. Unfortunately the pair I had been given were already on their last legs. Around this time, being still a high school student, I had a job working as a farm labourer crawling along the ground picking up tulip bulbs. The very first thing I bought from this job was a case of beer, but the second thing was Lavers.
Footbag has been one of the most important things in my life. I've made great friends through it, it's helped me through the worst periods of my life, it's currently an important source of income, and it's taught me about hard work, discipline and their rewards.
So the way I see it your question has been answered. You just now need to decide whether you can see enough value in footbag to get yourself a pair of lavers. It doesn't have to be right now, but you can decide to save up and buy them when you can afford it. Or, if footbag isn't important to you, you can not get them and continue at your current level. That's definitely the easy option, and I'm sure that having never performed in front of 13,000 people or hit nemesis for the first time, you can't really feel what you're missing enough, and it would be an understandable choice to make.