I was thinking about this the other day and wanted to know what everyone else thinks. When the XDEX system was originally defined, it defined an XDEX as a dex that went both "over" and "under" the bag. These are typically thought of as "full" dexes (i.e. mirages, illusions, etc.)
Now, generally stepping is not considered an XDEX because the dex just goes over the bag (same reason a butterfly dex is not an XDEX). However, for certain stepping same side moves, the leg does have to go back under the bag for the trick to be completed. For example, in order to do the whirl dex in stepping same whirl, you must bring your leg back under the bag after stepping. Thus, that particular case of stepping should be an XDEX, and stepping same whirl should be a 5 add move (since a whirl is also an XDEX). This makes stepping same whirl the same add value as blurry whirl (which I think is closer to being correct because many view it as a harder or at least as hard trick).
What does everyone think?
Stepping and XDEX
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wolfpac444
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Stepping and XDEX
Mike Hansen
The number of adds has never been an indicator of difficulty. It's just a matter of move components.FlexThis wrote:As for blurry whirl being a 4 add moveNO! It is not as easy as a ripwalk where you simply fall on the bag after the intial set.
bjoern
Munich Footbag
Munich Footbag
True!
But why then do we use terms like guiltless and fearless to explain combos related to add value? If adds do not equal difficulty then terms like guiltless and fearless have no actual meaning, just a stereotypical means to catergorize moves of different difficulty that only have the number of components in common.
But anyway, regardless of difficulty, I believe Blurry whirl to be a 5 add move, PDX is legit.
But why then do we use terms like guiltless and fearless to explain combos related to add value? If adds do not equal difficulty then terms like guiltless and fearless have no actual meaning, just a stereotypical means to catergorize moves of different difficulty that only have the number of components in common.
But anyway, regardless of difficulty, I believe Blurry whirl to be a 5 add move, PDX is legit.
Go out and shred already.
~Damon Mathews
~Damon Mathews
Because we tend to relate the number of adds to the degree of difficulty.FlexThis wrote:True!
But why then do we use terms like guiltless and fearless to explain combos related to add value?
The add-system serves as a rough measure of difficulty, seeing that
any 2 add trick is easier than any 4-add trick, but still it's very unprecise.
And we need a measure for difficulty in order to be able to
describe and it, and at the moment, the add-system
is the only one we have, until someone comes up with a revolutionary
new system
Sorry for being off-topic.
bjoern
Munich Footbag
Munich Footbag
Wow, this is a very very interesting question.
I think the crux of the issue, is whether or not the dexing leg in the blurry set goes back under the bag after the initial dex. If it does, the move is always more difficult than when it does not.
Example:
Stepping same clipper vs. stepping butterfly.
In stepping same clipper, the dex leg first goes over the bag (set), then comes back under the bag so you can clipper. In stepping butterfly, the dex leg does 2 half dexes, but never does the leg go under the bag. My 2 cents: they both are roughly equally difficult.
Stepping same clipper vs. stepping opp clipper.
In the first trick, crispy whirl, the dex leg returns under the bag. In the latter trick, crispy drifter, it does not. Which is more difficult? I would argue that crispy whirl is.
Stepping butterfly swirl vs. stepping swirl.
Again, in one trick the initial dexing leg comes back under the bag, while in the other trick it does not. Again, I find these roughly equally difficult.
Blurry whirl vs. stepping whirl.
In blurry whirl, the initial dex leg does not come back under the bag, while in stepping whirl it does. Same goes for tombstone vs. blurry drifter, food vs. stepping blender, plessy vs. ferguson, blurrage vs. stepping barrage, fury vs. high stepping mirage, haze vs. fog, and blurry torque vs. grave digger.
In conclusion: I agree with what Mike said in his original post, but I didnt vote, because the wording on the poll isnt explicit. The way it is worded now blurrier gets extra credit. I would word it:
`all stepping same side tricks in which the dex leg returns under the bag get an x-dex.`
This obviously includes all full in-out dexes, like mirages, drifters, torques and whirls, but it also includes dexes like swirl and reverse swirl, as well as dex-less components such as clipper and osis.
By adopting this new x-dex modifier, stepping whirl and a bunch of other tricks would have their difficulty more accurately reflected add-wise than they are now. Stepping same side osis would become a 5 add move though, but hey, if torch-r-rack is a 6, then dada curve is a 5.
Thanks for reading this far.
I think the crux of the issue, is whether or not the dexing leg in the blurry set goes back under the bag after the initial dex. If it does, the move is always more difficult than when it does not.
Example:
Stepping same clipper vs. stepping butterfly.
In stepping same clipper, the dex leg first goes over the bag (set), then comes back under the bag so you can clipper. In stepping butterfly, the dex leg does 2 half dexes, but never does the leg go under the bag. My 2 cents: they both are roughly equally difficult.
Stepping same clipper vs. stepping opp clipper.
In the first trick, crispy whirl, the dex leg returns under the bag. In the latter trick, crispy drifter, it does not. Which is more difficult? I would argue that crispy whirl is.
Stepping butterfly swirl vs. stepping swirl.
Again, in one trick the initial dexing leg comes back under the bag, while in the other trick it does not. Again, I find these roughly equally difficult.
Blurry whirl vs. stepping whirl.
In blurry whirl, the initial dex leg does not come back under the bag, while in stepping whirl it does. Same goes for tombstone vs. blurry drifter, food vs. stepping blender, plessy vs. ferguson, blurrage vs. stepping barrage, fury vs. high stepping mirage, haze vs. fog, and blurry torque vs. grave digger.
In conclusion: I agree with what Mike said in his original post, but I didnt vote, because the wording on the poll isnt explicit. The way it is worded now blurrier gets extra credit. I would word it:
`all stepping same side tricks in which the dex leg returns under the bag get an x-dex.`
This obviously includes all full in-out dexes, like mirages, drifters, torques and whirls, but it also includes dexes like swirl and reverse swirl, as well as dex-less components such as clipper and osis.
By adopting this new x-dex modifier, stepping whirl and a bunch of other tricks would have their difficulty more accurately reflected add-wise than they are now. Stepping same side osis would become a 5 add move though, but hey, if torch-r-rack is a 6, then dada curve is a 5.
Thanks for reading this far.
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hacksterbator
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i never consider xdex as being legitimate. i think we should just stick to the original job notation. however i do undertand about stepping ss moves being equally as difficult as blurry moves so maybe xdex should only be rewarded for same side things (ex: stepping ss mirage) since blurry tricks often get pdx adds (ex: blur)
p.s. i didn't read every ones comments so pleas excuse me if this has already been said.
p.s. i didn't read every ones comments so pleas excuse me if this has already been said.
A.G.
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wolfpac444
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Why don't you consider x-dex legitimate? In general, it does a lot to make the add system more in-line with difficulty which is the purpose of adds (although somewhat related, Jobs notation is different from the adds system). The two most obvious examples are atom smasher and toe blur being 4's instead of 3's.
Mike Hansen
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ShredPirate
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