It's time to get footbag out of its recession.
This is how:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv ... ion_504247
Less investment in luxuries and unnecessary logistics, more investment in rewarding the winners who dedicate their lives to improving the craft.
Help create an atmosphere that harnesses motivation and excellence.
JM
Event Organizers Take Note!
Event Organizers Take Note!
Jorden Moir
-
Not-so-ripped Warrior
- Fearless
- Posts: 566
- Joined: 30 Mar 2005 19:02
That's awesome what Jason is doing for juggling.
You're absolutely right- that same kind of prize money would totally help footbag along in its development.
You're absolutely right- that same kind of prize money would totally help footbag along in its development.
-Eric Siegel: The man, the myth, the legend
Words of Wisdom from Rockey:
"hittin' ripped warrior bsos: that's a paddlin';
hittin' stepping diving whirl: that's a paddlin;
hittin' montage: you better believe that's a paddlin'"
Words of Wisdom from Rockey:
"hittin' ripped warrior bsos: that's a paddlin';
hittin' stepping diving whirl: that's a paddlin;
hittin' montage: you better believe that's a paddlin'"
its odd of you to post this, jorden. i was with nick polini today discussing the jam we are hosting in spring. We just finished talking about needing to come up with money for open prizes, when i looked at my phone an read this post.
so we are going to try an get as many sponsors as we can get to throw us some money for there logo on a t shirt. i hope we can get $400 with sponsors an t shirt profits.
so dose anyone know what the record cash prize in footbag history is? what event an who won it?
so we are going to try an get as many sponsors as we can get to throw us some money for there logo on a t shirt. i hope we can get $400 with sponsors an t shirt profits.
so dose anyone know what the record cash prize in footbag history is? what event an who won it?
Large venues (tons of unused space)mr.alex wrote:price money is always good of course, but where does it come from? I didn't see too much luxuries and unnecessary logistics in past footbag events actually.
Player's packs (who wants to pay for headbands/socks/towels/bad footbags, etc. anyway?)
Sound systems and amplification
DJs, MCs and various stage performers
Furniture rentals
Expensive hotels
the list goes on.
In fact I've seen almost all these things in every Worlds I've been to.
The entry fee (which can be a bit high) pays for the venue and basic costs.
Accomodation should be as cheap as humanly possible.
Prize money comes from sponsors and donors, and possibly the organizers' disposable income.
The more prize money, the harder players will work to earn it.
The winners will then be able to afford other tournaments keeping the technical level high there, which will compel more players to attend.
This ripple effect will stop the downward spiral of top players dropping out or losing motivation like we've been experiencing the past couple years.
Don't think you are doing a service by doing more for the average player who paid the entry fee. When everybody 'wins', nobody really wins.
Do more by investing in the players that inspire us and keep the sport a thrill to watch and play, in person and in videos.
Heck, hold Worlds in a barn!! But make the prize money $10,000 or more.
I bet then, or after just a few years we'd be back to our 2004 levels.
JM
Jorden Moir
i believe there is one huge misconception in the above. which is that there is actually money available in the sport of footbag that could be distributed in any way.
footbag skills are just one of the things that don't translate into money. we should learn to live with that.
the interest in footbag within the commercially relevant communities is still marginal, no matter how far the skills have progressed in the last years. and both the footbag community itself as well as the broader interest group of hacky sackers are not able to sustain a footbag related industry. therefore there is
a. no one making money from footbag for footbags sake
b. no one making money from footbag for its coolness factor
and where there is no money to be earned there will never be any money to give away.
as to the luxuries mentioned: in my experience it is virtually impossible to find a sponsor who doesn't care about exposure. so finding someone to sponsor 10k for a tournament in a barn would be a very tough task indeed. but if you promise a big stage, big lights and side kicks that might actually draw a crowd (DJs, MCs, performers) you might actually bum enough money out of them to finance all that. so (in my experience) it's not really a question of prizemoney+barn vs. no prize money+luxuries but rather no prizemoney+barn vs. no prize money+luxuries. I have always opted for giving the players a good time and exposure to a decent crowd (rewarding perhaps the ego of the skilled players more than their wallets;).
on a side note i would like to add that the "high times" of footbag mentioned were not reached because there was $$ in the sport back then. far to the contrary. what we had in the early 2000nds was a host of people who were actually very much into doing stuff for the footbag community on a larger scale. like putting their own money into and ruining their health for a kickass event or hosting and maintaining a cool website that would get people interested in the sport. this got a lot of young, very talented players into the sport which (i might add) did not in any way get involved or developed their skills because of any commercial considerations. unfortunately the sport was not able to sustain the people who were dedicated in the organizational side of footbag and there was a lack of new blood in that area. now, with a respective timelag we are loosing the dedicated players for much the same reasons.
i guess what i'm saying is that the trouble runs deeper than prizemoney and that prizemoney, substantially available for a timespan of several years, would possibly improve the skills of some individuals, but would not improve the overall standing of footbag in the world. and without that there can be no sustainable progress.
so in my eyes the path jason is taking with juggling will not change anything because it won't change how juggling is perceived in the public eye.
footbag skills are just one of the things that don't translate into money. we should learn to live with that.
the interest in footbag within the commercially relevant communities is still marginal, no matter how far the skills have progressed in the last years. and both the footbag community itself as well as the broader interest group of hacky sackers are not able to sustain a footbag related industry. therefore there is
a. no one making money from footbag for footbags sake
b. no one making money from footbag for its coolness factor
and where there is no money to be earned there will never be any money to give away.
as to the luxuries mentioned: in my experience it is virtually impossible to find a sponsor who doesn't care about exposure. so finding someone to sponsor 10k for a tournament in a barn would be a very tough task indeed. but if you promise a big stage, big lights and side kicks that might actually draw a crowd (DJs, MCs, performers) you might actually bum enough money out of them to finance all that. so (in my experience) it's not really a question of prizemoney+barn vs. no prize money+luxuries but rather no prizemoney+barn vs. no prize money+luxuries. I have always opted for giving the players a good time and exposure to a decent crowd (rewarding perhaps the ego of the skilled players more than their wallets;).
on a side note i would like to add that the "high times" of footbag mentioned were not reached because there was $$ in the sport back then. far to the contrary. what we had in the early 2000nds was a host of people who were actually very much into doing stuff for the footbag community on a larger scale. like putting their own money into and ruining their health for a kickass event or hosting and maintaining a cool website that would get people interested in the sport. this got a lot of young, very talented players into the sport which (i might add) did not in any way get involved or developed their skills because of any commercial considerations. unfortunately the sport was not able to sustain the people who were dedicated in the organizational side of footbag and there was a lack of new blood in that area. now, with a respective timelag we are loosing the dedicated players for much the same reasons.
i guess what i'm saying is that the trouble runs deeper than prizemoney and that prizemoney, substantially available for a timespan of several years, would possibly improve the skills of some individuals, but would not improve the overall standing of footbag in the world. and without that there can be no sustainable progress.
so in my eyes the path jason is taking with juggling will not change anything because it won't change how juggling is perceived in the public eye.
Wow, thanks Jan. Great post! 
Lots to think about.
I think the first step (and what I was initially addressing in my first post) is to maintain a stable population of players. The goal is to try and stop negative growth where the net number of players drops year after year, especially those at an advanced level.
To do this the obvious strategy is to establish incentives to continue training.
For the typical age and demographic of players the best incentive is generally money.
Once population stabilizes, then other strategies can be made on how to focus on growth.
JM
Lots to think about.
I think the first step (and what I was initially addressing in my first post) is to maintain a stable population of players. The goal is to try and stop negative growth where the net number of players drops year after year, especially those at an advanced level.
To do this the obvious strategy is to establish incentives to continue training.
For the typical age and demographic of players the best incentive is generally money.
Once population stabilizes, then other strategies can be made on how to focus on growth.
JM
Jorden Moir
I think atze = Jan? If yes, Jan, thank you for typing that so that I do not have to. I think your analysis is dead on.
My only comment regarding lots of prize money... That will basically service less than 20 players in the world who will win or place in all the events... 20 people who are already hooked and amazing at the game and will continue playing regardless. So, ignoring the difficulty of getting the money in the first place, if I DID get it, the last thing I'd do is dump $10,000 into cash prizes at this stage of the game - my opinion is that there are far more useful things to do with that money to help the sport.
edit 2: Also, the "luxuries" of events are sometimes the only reason many players may want to continue to attend the event.. To, you know, have a fun time at the event. T-shirts and water and a nice venue... That's fun, and that's what 99% of players are there for.
edit 3: for all those that may feel that getting sponsor money for events is easy peasy... please organize a few events and see how it goes. You'll have a whole new appreciation for what a thankless, tiring task it really is. I applaud all those that have held events in the last few years. Good work.
(edit: and if the argument is "$10K will be seen by the athletic universe and now everyone will want to kick hacky sack and strive to be the best..." I don't buy it. By the time the athletic universe catches up to the top players, the $10K prizes would have to be sustained for years on end.. unlikely. I continue to feel that the best way to grow, is to build as many casual/fun players as you possibly can, and expect a small percent of that group to graduate into freestyle. Don't fight the "hacky sack" culture, embrace it and use it to grow the number of players.)
My only comment regarding lots of prize money... That will basically service less than 20 players in the world who will win or place in all the events... 20 people who are already hooked and amazing at the game and will continue playing regardless. So, ignoring the difficulty of getting the money in the first place, if I DID get it, the last thing I'd do is dump $10,000 into cash prizes at this stage of the game - my opinion is that there are far more useful things to do with that money to help the sport.
edit 2: Also, the "luxuries" of events are sometimes the only reason many players may want to continue to attend the event.. To, you know, have a fun time at the event. T-shirts and water and a nice venue... That's fun, and that's what 99% of players are there for.
edit 3: for all those that may feel that getting sponsor money for events is easy peasy... please organize a few events and see how it goes. You'll have a whole new appreciation for what a thankless, tiring task it really is. I applaud all those that have held events in the last few years. Good work.
(edit: and if the argument is "$10K will be seen by the athletic universe and now everyone will want to kick hacky sack and strive to be the best..." I don't buy it. By the time the athletic universe catches up to the top players, the $10K prizes would have to be sustained for years on end.. unlikely. I continue to feel that the best way to grow, is to build as many casual/fun players as you possibly can, and expect a small percent of that group to graduate into freestyle. Don't fight the "hacky sack" culture, embrace it and use it to grow the number of players.)
Bob R.
