why is there not an official footbag?

Elliott · Post by **Elliott** » 18 Feb 2011 14:12

As long as footbag has been around, you'd think that this would've been done years ago. Footbag has an international players association, a board of directors, numerous committees, + a hall of fame, & we don't have a standardized footbag for freestyle or net! Why not? I'm aware that stitching is a big deal & there are plenty of people that enjoy making their own bags, but I believe this is one of the main reasons that footbag remains in the dark ages. Other than chinlone, i cannot even name another sport that doesn't have an official bag, ball, puck, or whatever.

Zeb Jackson · Post by **Zeb Jackson** » 18 Feb 2011 14:18

I dont think it has anything to do with it at all, personal preference doesnt inhibit or help anyone, (unless they are too big) you could say that professional BMX should stick to one company then, cause there are many styles and types and parts that people use.

Elliott · Post by **Elliott** » 18 Feb 2011 14:35

i'm not talking about sports that require riding an apparatus

i'm talking bags, balls, pucks, & yes even shuttlecocks.

badminton, baseball, basketball, bocce, bowling, cricket, croquet, dodge ball, field hockey, foosball, football, golf, handball, hockey, korfball, jai alai, janzai, jokgu, lacrosse, netball, paddleball, paintball, polo, pool, racquetball, rugby, sepak takraw, skeeball, soccer, softball, squash, table tennis, tee ball, tennis, tetherball, volleyball, water polo, wiffleball. So why not us?

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 18 Feb 2011 15:21

let me start of by saying i like your avatar, i love katamari. i can roll your world up, just give me 10 minutes

the 32 panel sorta is the freestyle official bag. its the standard... footbags have a huge level of preference that varies greatly between players. un like most the sports you listed there has to be a standard to make it fair that everyone is using the same equipment, so its in the there games rules. Footbag states in the rules of competition that a bag can be between 1 an 3 inchs an 40 to 70 grams (this might be close, its just off the top of my head) another words, are sport dose not require a single official bag. there are many bags on the market. having a official bag is in NO way going to help the sports progression.

above all i feel the most compelling thing in this debate would be this...
since everyone has such a personal taste in there bags, size, weight, materials, characteristics of feel.... who would be the person/persons to make the choice in saying "this is the official bag, everyone must use this in competition"

by the way every sport you listed above is a sport that you play with people. un like freestyle where its something you do by your self.

also i believe net footbag has a standard bag... if any variation of footbag should have a official bag, i agree if it doesn't all ready, net should.

Elliott · Post by **Elliott** » 18 Feb 2011 15:47

Footbag net does not have an official bag. Sure freestyle is played solo, but that's just another reason why it remains in the shadows. Freestyle without the circle is just interpretative dance. The more I think about it.... the less I think freestyle can even be called a sport.

sen · Post by **sen** » 18 Feb 2011 16:24

Elliott wrote:Freestyle without the circle is just interpretative dance. The more I think about it.... the less I think freestyle can even be called a sport.

Figure Skating, Gymnastics, and many other sports wouldn't be sports either...

Elliott · Post by **Elliott** » 18 Feb 2011 19:42

Personally I don't believe freestyle is a sport. Unfortunately that gets into the whole discussion of, "what's the difference between a sport & a competition". So let's save that one for another thread.

I would prefer to stick with the subject of the standardized footbag. Why can't the governing body of footbag step in & say we've agreed on an official footbag & it will be the only bag allowed in competition? I'm pretty sure that there were initial backlashes in other games too. Athletes suck it up & move on. Why does footbag get to be the exception?

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 18 Feb 2011 20:32

Elliott wrote:
I would prefer to stick with the subject of the standardized footbag. Why can't the governing body of footbag step in & say we've agreed on an official footbag & it will be the only bag allowed in competition? I'm pretty sure that there were initial backlashes in other games too. Athletes suck it up & move on. Why does footbag get to be the exception?

i have a question... did you read my reply ?

tell me who is gonna decide what bag will be used, an who is gonna make it, an why it matters or how it could in anyway at all possible improve the sport or game since u dont believe it to be a sport..

personally id be pretty pissed if i couldn't use my own bag in a competition an if you took a vote i feel you would find everyone else feels the same way.

lets me ask you another question, what bag/whos bag, do you use?

Jazzkid · Post by **Jazzkid** » 18 Feb 2011 20:49

Elliott wrote: Freestyle without the circle is just interpretative dance. The more I think about it.... the less I think freestyle can even be called a sport.

..........it is unusual for someone that seems concerned about our sport staying in the dark ages to say this ^^

Runners ( in the olympics) do not all wear the same shoe (or the same size) and they do not ride an apparatus.

Donovon · Post by **Donovon** » 18 Feb 2011 20:53

zachatree wrote:personally id be pretty pissed if i couldn't use my own bag in a competition an if you took a vote i feel you would find everyone else feels the same way.

To add, what is the harm in people using their own bags? If there was honestly any sort of bag that made or allowed someone to player better than their competitors, then it would obviously be used by the best competitors. Same with shoes. Why mandate shoes? Wearing one pair of shoes over another doesnt give any player any advantage over another player since it really comes down to preference.
Why/how would regulating bags advance/establish the sport in any way?

~Donovon

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 18 Feb 2011 22:18

I see where you're coming from Elliott, but I think the most important factor is that we use hand stitched bags. As of yet, there are no machine made, mass produced footbags that are comparable. And there are no stitchers that have the ability to produce the number of footbags needed for all players to have one for practice and competition. Until then I think it's a moot point.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 18 Feb 2011 22:38

It's like a cow's opinion; it just doesn't matter.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkJ4BUChxI[/youtube]

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 19 Feb 2011 01:40

107. Footbags Used in Play
107.01. To be used in competition, footbags must:
A. be approximately spherical in shape;
B. have a soft, pliable covering – they cannot be rigid balls;
C. contain loose filling of any material4; and
D. be subject to the following size and weight restrictions:
1. Diameter of footbag: Minimum: 2.54cm (1.0 inches) Maximum: 6.35cm (2.5 inches)
2. Weight of footbag: Minimum: 20g (0.71 ounces) Maximum: 70g (2.47 ounces).5

- http://www.footbag.org/ifpa/groups/ifc/ ... 0-2006.pdf

sen · Post by **sen** » 19 Feb 2011 10:04

There is no official bowling ball.
No official Figure Skates.
No official Golf Ball. Despite you claiming there is... Many manufactures make them and there are regulations for size and performance, but they aren't that different than the regulations found in Footbag's Rulebook.
Soccer (Football) balls come in various sizes. Size 5 is regulation for ages 12 and up. It can be made from a few different materials and is made by many different companies.
Tennis balls must conform to certain criteria for size, weight, deformation, and bounce criteria to be approved for regulation play. (Sounds a bit like the footbag rules)
The baseball is about the size of an adult's fist, around 9 inches (23 centimeters) in circumference. It has a rubber or cork center, wound in yarn and covered in white cowhide, with red stitching.

It seems a lot of the sports you mentioned have very similar rules and guidelines for their equipment as footbag does.

drillbit · Post by **drillbit** » 20 Feb 2011 10:20

Anz wrote:
107. Footbags Used in Play
107.01. To be used in competition, footbags must:
A. be approximately spherical in shape;
B. have a soft, pliable covering – they cannot be rigid balls;
C. contain loose filling of any material4; and
D. be subject to the following size and weight restrictions:
1. Diameter of footbag: Minimum: 2.54cm (1.0 inches) Maximum: 6.35cm (2.5 inches)
2. Weight of footbag: Minimum: 20g (0.71 ounces) Maximum: 70g (2.47 ounces).5
- http://www.footbag.org/ifpa/groups/ifc/ ... 0-2006.pdf

^^ x2 ^^

btw - this topic is eerily similar to:

-why doesnt footbag get no respect
-why is footbag not seen as a sport
-growing footbag
-footbag should be marketed like skateboarding
-public friendly footbag
-etc etc

the OP mentioned Chinlone so i searched it because, to me, footbag is an extension/continuation of a sport that is 1000's of years old. Chinlone is the national sport of Burma and it is basically a hacky sack circle but it is perceived as an expression of love and art. "Chinlone is a combination of sport and dance, a team sport with no opposing team. In essence chinlone is non-competitive, yet it is as demanding as the most competitive ball games. The focus is not on winning or losing, but how beautifully one plays the game. All serious players experience an intensely focused state of mind, similar to that achieved in Zen meditation, which they refer to as jhana."

The concerns about what footbag is or should be - seem, to me, to be redundant......for the very simple reason that these propositions fail to consider what footbag really is. The biggest asset (if you want to call it that), in terms of marketing, is that footbag is an ancient sport. Essentially it has always been and always will be. We should be filled with gratitude for the ability to continue this ancient tradition. Yet, as with all things, we will build our towers and create our technology and criticize and dominate and in the end it will all dissolve.......one thing will be true though.......FOOTBAG AND FOOT SPORTS WILL STILL BE HERE!!

.. "Behind my beloved waterfall, in the little room that was hidden beneath the cave, I found it. I brushed away the dust of the years, and picked it up, holding it reverently in my hands. I had no idea what it might be, but it was beautiful" ...

landon palmer · Post by **landon palmer** » 20 Feb 2011 13:34

70gs max? my bag is 76 and the one before that was 73. I wonder how many people are playing with illegal bags.

Elliott · Post by **Elliott** » 21 Feb 2011 08:08

okay starting at the top.

zachatree - yes i read your reply. who decides? the footbag rules committee seems like an excellent choice as to who would decide on the bag. who produces? a footbag company like freedom footbags, prokicker, or footbagnet.com. why it matters? it matters because beginners are always asking, "what kind of bag should i purchase?" also, the only types of bags i ever find at a retail store are crochet, whould it not be better if people learned how to kick with one bag & continued to use the same one? i started with a crochet bag, then switched to a 4-paneled sandbag, & thought about a to 12-paneled dirtbag, & finally ended up with a to 32-paneled bb filler - that shits confusing! finally what bag do i use? i'm an ex-footbagger & now spend my time on a sepak takraw court.

jazzkid - why am i concerned? i spent 8 years playing footbag & trying to get other people to learn before i got sick of being the last man standing. i would like to see footbag make a comeback & earn some respect. Runners are not footbaggers, once again this is a bag/ball discussion.

donovon - what's the problem with people using their own bags? it's too much personalization. yes there are weight & size standards for footbags, however, they continue to shrink smaller & smaller. have you ever seen a freestyle judge measure or weigh a footbag before a competition? i think not. i'm not talking about shoes... again a bag/ball discussion. how would regulating advance the sport? successful sports have a standard.

nathan - production issues? okay nathan... who said the bags have to be produced by private stitchers? a textile manufacturer could easily handle it. all you have to do is supply them witha diagram that detailed the bag compisition material, filler, specific weight. it would be difficult to do, but it's very possible.

muffinman - go have some lunch!

anz - yes i agree there are supposedly standards in footbags. my question to you is have they ever been followed through or enforced?

i'll respond to the others in due time.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 21 Feb 2011 08:18

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/football/ ... index.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... id=2689744

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 21 Feb 2011 08:21

Elliott wrote: donovon - what's the problem with people using their own bags? it's too much personalization. yes there are weight & size standards for footbags, however, they continue to shrink smaller & smaller. have you ever seen a freestyle judge measure or weigh a footbag before a competition? i think not. i'm not talking about shoes... again a bag/ball discussion. how would regulating advance the sport? successful sports have a standard.

There is a standard; it's in the rules and Anssi posted the requirements. What more are you looking for?

sen · Post by **sen** » 21 Feb 2011 08:27

Elliott - A lot of the sports you talked about have Rules almost identical to Footbag's for bag/ball requirements. Why do you choose to ignore this? And you're point about freestyle judges not measuring bags before competition... what's to say they won't check for official bags in competition if we were to get an Official Bag as you would like. This is a judging failure, not a reason to take away one of the things that make this sport great - Customization and personalization.

Please comment on the sports I brought out above.