Bags in Competition

sen · Post by **sen** » 18 Mar 2011 09:41

Now that the "Official Bag" thread has died down, I wanted to get some thoughts on an idea that came up in that thread. Should Footbags used by competers in IFPA Sanctioned Events be measured and weighed to ensure they meet the IFPA regulations for size and weight? What methods should be used for doing so? When should it be done? Does it really matter?

Discuss.

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 18 Mar 2011 09:46

Who cares? As long as all competitors agree on the bag, what difference does it make?

sen · Post by **sen** » 18 Mar 2011 09:50

Laroche wrote:Who cares? As long as all competitors agree on the bag, what difference does it make?

I guess the point is that in freestyle it's not like players inspect the other bags.

LinoSphere · Post by **LinoSphere** » 18 Mar 2011 11:37

and why should they? it's not like there is this one footbag that gives incredible advantages over other players, but doesn't fall whithin IFPA regulations. measuring and weighing footbags in freestyle competition is a rather pointless idea, i might say.

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 18 Mar 2011 19:06

i dont think they should, but at the same time until the rules are re written i believe they should be... it says they should be under a cretin weight an i think they should be checked since it says they pretty much should be.

an just for the argument of it, more weight in a bag gives a advantage..... if u ever played with a 45g bag then changed to a 65g bag the notice in the bags stalling power is noticeable... it takes much less effort in my opinion to stall a heaver bag. i feel physics play a part here an if i was someone smart like jeremy id probably get in to detail an explain it, but i cant because im a idiot. so this is all opinion.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 18 Mar 2011 19:13

Who gives a shit? There really is not an advantage to a 90g bag compared to 48g bag. You still have to be able to dex, spin, duck, and dive.

mc · Post by mc » 18 Mar 2011 19:29

Footbagger007 wrote:Who gives a shit? There really is not an advantage to a 90g bag compared to 48g bag. You still have to be able to dex, spin, duck, and dive.

and stall.

ya, I agree with this sentiment.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 18 Mar 2011 19:42

mc wrote:
Footbagger007 wrote:Who gives a shit? There really is not an advantage to a 90g bag compared to 48g bag. You still have to be able to dex, spin, duck, and dive.
and stall.

ya, I agree with this sentiment.

and set

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 18 Mar 2011 19:46

ever notice how high a heavy bag will go when you do a pixie compared to a light one..... weight makes a difference, if it didnt why do most people prefer heavier bags?

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 18 Mar 2011 19:50

zachatree wrote:ever notice how high a heavy bag will go when you do a pixie compared to a light one..... weight makes a difference, if it didnt why do most people prefer heavier bags?

Yeah, but with a heavy bag the size of the bag would have to be bigger or else it is too bouncy. Now that the bag is bigger you have sacrificed size for weight making dexs harder. A lot depends on the genre of tricks you hit. Some people get the short end of the stick.

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 18 Mar 2011 20:01

not true at all... i can make a bag smaller then a golf ball weigh 70g an still only be 50% full......

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 18 Mar 2011 20:04

zachatree wrote:not true at all... i can make a bag smaller then a golf ball weigh 70g an still only be 50% full......

actully i take it back, 60% its sure as hell dont bounce.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 18 Mar 2011 20:22

zachatree wrote:
zachatree wrote:not true at all... i can make a bag smaller then a golf ball weigh 70g an still only be 50% full......

actully i take it back, 60% its sure as hell dont bounce.

We're talking about different things. I'm saying that you're not at an advantage/disadvantage if you use a 90g bag compared to a 48g bag granted you have some intelligence. Each bag allows you to do different things. The upside to a lighter bag is easier stalls but less precise sets. A heavier bag provided the size of the bag is the same will be bouncier but have more precision on the sets. However you're not allowed to use a 90g bag. I can't think of a logical reason why. For a 90g back to sta well it has to be pretty big. (1.5-2+ times the surface area of a golf ball) Perhaps someone more experienced with stitching can provide an answer for the strict weight restrictions. (Sorry I didnt know how to not sound like a dick there.)

akalazou · Post by **akalazou** » 19 Mar 2011 10:07

they shouldn't weight any of our equipment. if they do they should put:
maximum size: basketball
minimum size: sand
maximum weight: 40 kilos
minimum weight: 0.00000001 gram

in hockey, do they measure the weight of the skates/pads/etc etc ?? no
in tennis, do they measure the weight of the racket ? no
in volley ball, do they measure the weight of the shorts ? no
in swimmimg, do they measure the size of their speedo ? no

if i want want to go to worlds and play with a chainmail (for a routine) this is MY CHOICE, i would be dumb tho.

i dont like to play with a 45g bag or a 65g bag ...i like my bags around 55g - 60g .. i dont really like amaretta either, and my favorite filler is lead. thats how i make my bags and i wouldn't compete with something different.

on another POV, we arent a mainstream sport (yet

) why would be such a stupid thing ?? lets say, get many many players first. and when there will be too much players, lets make the game even harder?

everbody as their own preferences ... you cant say to someone : you'll play with a rolly bag if he likes puffy bags and vice versa.

brianbear · Post by **brianbear** » 19 Mar 2011 11:11

easily the lamest topic ever.
a lot of good comparisons about non-standardized things in other sports.
weigh in would be silly and maybe embarrassing to a top player who doesnt know his/her bag wieghs 80 grams.
almost all footbags are already incredibly similar in size and weight already, why change things?

sen · Post by **sen** » 19 Mar 2011 18:37

To be used in competition, footbags must:
A. Be approximately spherical in shape;
B. Have a soft, pliable covering; they cannot be rigid balls;
C. Contain loose filling of any material; and
D. Be subject to the following size and weight restrictions:
1. Diameter of footbag: Minimum: 2.54cm (1.0 inches); Maximum: 6.35cm (2.5 inches)
2. Weight of footbag: Minimum: 20g (0.71 ounces); Maximum: 70g (2.47 ounces)

Players may use one or more footbags which must fall within the specifications set forth in Article 1, Section 107.01. If more than one footbag is used, the footbags need not be similar or identical. Tournament officials, including judges, have the right to inspect players' footbags immediately before or after they compete, in order to determine the characteristics of the footbag.

I really wonder why this sport has rules if the majority of vocal players seem to feel the whole idea of rules is lame. If no one cares what bag others use, then we should probably look at having the rules change to read, "Use whatever the f*ck you want. We don't care."

For the record, I'm not really concerned with what bag others are using. I'm more interested in the rules of the sport being upheld. And as for "Top Players" being embarrassed because they didn't know they were using an illegal bag... that would be their own problem and no one else's. It it there responsibility to follow the rules. It reminds me of the coach from Cool Runnings. It's been a while since I seen it but he told a story of being disqualified because his team had weights in the front of the Bob Sled making it go faster. I think it was his coach that had put them there are something and he didn't know about it. It sucks that he didn't know, but that wouldn't be the case with a footbag. It takes 30 seconds to weight and measure it and then you know if it's legal for competition or not.

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 20 Mar 2011 02:46

sen wrote:
To be used in competition, footbags must:
A. Be approximately spherical in shape;
B. Have a soft, pliable covering; they cannot be rigid balls;
C. Contain loose filling of any material; and
D. Be subject to the following size and weight restrictions:
1. Diameter of footbag: Minimum: 2.54cm (1.0 inches); Maximum: 6.35cm (2.5 inches)
2. Weight of footbag: Minimum: 20g (0.71 ounces); Maximum: 70g (2.47 ounces)

Players may use one or more footbags which must fall within the specifications set forth in Article 1, Section 107.01. If more than one footbag is used, the footbags need not be similar or identical. Tournament officials, including judges, have the right to inspect players' footbags immediately before or after they compete, in order to determine the characteristics of the footbag.
I really wonder why this sport has rules if the majority of vocal players seem to feel the whole idea of rules is lame. If no one cares what bag others use, then we should probably look at having the rules change to read, "Use whatever the f*ck you want. We don't care."

For the record, I'm not really concerned with what bag others are using. I'm more interested in the rules of the sport being upheld. And as for "Top Players" being embarrassed because they didn't know they were using an illegal bag... that would be their own problem and no one else's. It it there responsibility to follow the rules. It reminds me of the coach from Cool Runnings. It's been a while since I seen it but he told a story of being disqualified because his team had weights in the front of the Bob Sled making it go faster. I think it was his coach that had put them there are something and he didn't know about it. It sucks that he didn't know, but that wouldn't be the case with a footbag. It takes 30 seconds to weight and measure it and then you know if it's legal for competition or not.

agree with this. i dont care about the bag weight but i believe in following the rules. if it says it then it should be, an if we all feel it shouldnt be then we should see that the rules are re written.

Donovon · Post by **Donovon** » 23 Mar 2011 13:26

sen wrote:For the record, I'm not really concerned with what bag others are using. I'm more interested in the rules of the sport being upheld.

I tend to also agree here. Perhaps this is one of the things withholding the legitimacy of the sport since we seem to not follow our own rules.

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 23 Mar 2011 13:55

Donovon wrote:
sen wrote:For the record, I'm not really concerned with what bag others are using. I'm more interested in the rules of the sport being upheld.
I tend to also agree here. Perhaps this is one of the things withholding the legitimacy of the sport since we seem to not follow our own rules.

thanks for saying this. this is exactly what i was thinking when i was randomly giving thought to this subject on a long drive the other day.

everyone talks about expanding the sport an why it is not more official. You guys compare footbag to other sports, but there is no comparison. every sport ever compared with footbag FOLLOWS THERE RULES. how can we be taken seriously if everyone just says fuck it? i agree there should be no regulations to the bag you want to use. if u wanna use a grape fruit, then more power too you. i feel tho until the rules are rewritten we should follow the rules. this is a huge step to being a legitimate sport. so what we should be discussing since it obvious that we all feel the same way. is how to get the rules changed.

atze · Post by **atze** » 24 Mar 2011 03:13

[quote="akalazou"]

in hockey, do they measure the weight of the skates/pads/etc etc ?? no
in tennis, do they measure the weight of the racket ? no
in volley ball, do they measure the weight of the shorts ? no
in swimmimg, do they measure the size of their speedo ? no

[quote]

that is incorrect! they do measure size and weight of hockey balls, footballs, volleyballs, etc.
in swimming you have tons of regulations as to which type of swimsuit is legal and which is not (full body suits are now illegal for instance). in skiing the suit is not allowed to let more than so and so much air through the fabric, etc.
in all official sports, the central pieces are regulated. usually the regulations are set up once someone comes up with something new that gives them an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition.

i agree that rules should be followed. if the rules do not reflect the reality then change them through the official channels. but as long as they're there, obey them (in official competition!).

i know that bag type has always beenan issue in footbag golf where it would be an unfair advantage if someone was going to use a soccer ball or a tennis ball as a driver for instance.

in my eyes room for regulations in footbag freestyle are in:

bag size, shape, materials, weight, etc.
clothing (do we want people to (legally) play naked in competition?)
shoes (how much modification do we allow on a shoe?)

modified

Bags in Competition

Should bags used in IFPA events be measured and weighed?

Bags in Competition