Inspired by a conversation on facebook a while ago I've decided to set the goal of getting to 10,000 consecutive kicks. I thought a topic about this might be interesting and hopefully some other people will have a go at it too. I will post about my training and progress here anyway
My consecutive kicking is I guess average. I'm not sure what my record is, but I once kicked while waiting for a train that was supposed to come in 16 minutes, until that train arrived, at which point I stopped. The messages saying how long until trains arrive in Melbourne are anecdotally inaccurate though, so it was just about that time. I can't recall ever counting beyond a couple of hundred.
I've always found consecutive kicking to be rather boring, but I have a long recurring knee injury, so can't play a lot of sport now and need something to keep me fit. Playing light freestyle once or twice a week isn't enough. I also like the idea of the meditative nature of long consecutive kicking, and see this as a way of improving my focus and attention span.
The two issues I face with getting to 10,000 are endurance and counting. I estimate that 10,000 kicks would take approximately an hour and a half, which is the equivalent of running about 20km. Coming up with a good counting technique will also be important, as it would be annoying to lose count after a few thousand, and using a counter is not ideal, because I want to know when I get to there. In any event I'm sure I'm not yet capable of getting so far, so I will use my training time to experiment with various methods and post my thoughts here. What do other people think about counting methods? One of my concerns is that it will become more difficult towards the end - saying "eight thousand seven hundred and forty two, eight thousand seven hundred and forty three" etc. in your head may be difficult while keeping in sync with your kicks.
At this stage I think the most important thing is to train every day, and to make that useful training. Rather than just trying to see how long I can kick for each day, I'm going to start by working on technique, to come up with something I can sustain for 90 minutes non stop. My standard kicking technique is right inside>left raised knee toe. I think either toe flick kicks or only insides might be a better method. I think I'll build my training up. Starting with a half hour session today, and progressively increasing so that by the time I feel ready to start having attempts at 10,000 I am training for at least one session of 90 minutes every day.
I'll post my progress here, and hope other people join me
This sounds fun!
One trick that might help with counting is extending fingers. So, you could extend a finger (or otherwise remain conscious of it as a place marker) and use it to represent a hundred kicks, extending a second finger at two hundred, etc. Once you reach a thousand, you just have to remember a single digit (the number of thousands), and then continue to use fingers to represent hundreds. I think I did this when I was doing consecutives once.
I also suffer from bad injuries that prevent me from freestyling, and the meditative aspect appeals to me as well.
Jeremy wrote:Coming up with a good counting technique will also be important, as it would be annoying to lose count after a few thousand, and using a counter is not ideal, because I want to know when I get to there.
Quoted for the people who can't read more than a paragraph.
@Erik - Thanks, yeah fingers is a good idea. I think maybe fingers for the thousands and counting in my head all the way up to 999 might be better. I wonder how hard it is to remember the thousands digit when you get in to the mid thousands. I guess just through practice it will probably become easy to remember what I'm on anyway. I think the actual physical ability is a much bigger issue I face than keeping track of kicks.
Next time, I'm keeping my ideas to myself... Especially from you, Jer.
Anyway,
First, I estimate it will take a little over two hours. I'm figuring on between 130 and 140 minutes. I might be over-estimating a little bit, but a pace to reach 10,000 in only 90 seems overly ambitious -- I think you might be better to conserve energy and go at a walking pace rather than a jogging pace. Consider that running when you are tired is still just running -- even when tired, you're not likely to fall over. But kicking when you are tired, a drop will be a very easy thing to do (you may have sweat running into your eyes, and just a little shakiness from tiredness can cause a miss). How many times do you want to go through the effort of over an hour of consecutive kicks only to drop at 9500? I say, play it safe and get all the way there on your first serious attempt. Its the old strategy of the tortoise vs. the hare... (they tell that fable in Australia too, right? )
Next, I recommend a mix of kicking patterns. All insides, or all toes, or all inside > toe on the same side might be hard to maintain after a few thousand of the same kicks. When I practice consecutive kicks (and I do this very often, as a warm-up) I do one or two hundred insides, and then one or two hundred toes, and then repeat (because insides are EASY and toes are, I think, my most energy efficient) and then move on to patterns of inside > outside, and inside > knee, and knee > knee, with another hundred toe flicks between each other pattern. I had once gotten a little carried away in an informal and stupid competition with Luis Monhollon, trying to prove a point about footbag records. As part of this competition, I did over a thousand kicks in a row of just toe kicks, and over a thousand of just inside kicks (maybe two thousand, I can't remember, but, you'll find the numbers somewhere in a thread on this forum). I think there were even runs of several hundred kicks of JUST RIGHT INSIDE, or JUST RIGHT TOE... I can't really remember just now. The one thing that I do remember, though, is that using only one kind of kick is very rough on the body after only a short time. One or two hundred inside kicks is very very easy, and feels good to me to loosen-up my legs. One or two THOUSAND inside kicks and my hips will feel quite worn-out. On the other hand, my usual consecutive-kicks-warm-up is about 2500 kicks altogether, and I do those patterns I mentioned above, and when I reach the end I don't feel particularly worn-out muscularly (though I'm fairly sweaty and a little tired), and I'm pretty sure that its because I vary the types of kicks I do in a fairly regular sequence that keeps my legs from feeling badly worn-out the way they did when I tried thousand of all one kind of kick. (I don't stick to the sequence too rigorously -- If I feel like 50 of one kick is enough, I move on, but, more often, I get to 100 and feel like doing 20 or 50 extra --- I do one type of kick until I feel as loose and relaxed as I can get doing that pattern, and then move on to a different pattern to loosen-up in a different way, while allowing the muscles involved in the first kick pattern to REST before returning to that pattern or a similar one).
Another way that the "Patterns" of basic kicks helps me is in the COUNTING. I never count all the way through to 2500... I count 100 of one type of kicks, and then 100 of another type, and I ESTIMATE that when I've gone through all my familiar patterns (a pattern of patterns) I've kicked APPROXIMATELY 2500 times. I've sort of planned that I'd simply run through my warm-up pattern several times to reach 10,000 (since my warm-up takes between 30 and 35 minutes, this is why I think I'll need about 135 minutes to reach 10,000).
In the end, although I've also strongly considered a goal of 10,000 kicks, I've always figured that, the training I can do all alone since I don't need an exact count, but for the actual attempt, I'll want a couple of friends to witness, and I figured that they could do the counting for me. I don't ask much of my friends, and on some isolated occasion I think I can demand about two hours of their time and attention (perhaps rewarded with beer).
A few last tips ---
1. -- the TRANSITION from one type of kick pattern to another is one of the riskier parts of the whole exercise, as far as DROPS are concerned --- my typical strategy is, when finishing one pattern, I transition to basic inside kicks (my safest kick) for a random number of kicks, as many kicks as it takes before I feel settled and in control and ready to safely begin a different sort of pattern. Unfortunately, its my reliance on these unpatterned short sequences of inside kicks that keeps me from having an exact count of my kicks at the end of the warm-up.
2. While transitioning from one type of pattern to another might be the most risky moments in the sequence, the 2nd most risky moment is when you're deep in the middle of an easy pattern, and feeling very comfortable --its at those times when you're feeling most assured that your attention drifts just enough to risk an otherwise easily avoidable drop.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Jeremy wrote:Coming up with a good counting technique will also be important, as it would be annoying to lose count after a few thousand, and using a counter is not ideal, because I want to know when I get to there.
Quoted for the people who can't read more than a paragraph.
lol. I swear i read that whole thing an don't remember that. Anyways thanks for insulting me jerk-wad.
Thanks a lot for your detailed response Jon. My only regret is that I mentioned the facebook conversation, instead of taking all the credit for this idea myself
I just had my first practice session, and I see what you mean about the difficulty in maintaining a set pattern and the advantage of having a few different patterns. That's definitely something to consider in the future, although at this stage I think I mainly just need to get kicks on my feet, so to speak.
Getting other people to count is something I've considered, but I wonder how many people would be prepared to do that? I guess I could make sure I attempt it at a footbag tournament where it might be possible to get at least one person to count. I am really only doing it for my own benefit though, so I'll be happy as long as I'm convinced that I got there, regardless of whether my self counting is a robust method or not. I kind of worry that if I have a group of people around me watching and counting it's like I'm setting some record or something. To me this is more about the process of getting there as well. Anyway I think this discussion is a little perturbed with counting, so I'm going to try avoiding that topic until I think I'm approaching the ability where it's important.
Something I did find was that in my session it was far more "meditative" when I didn't count, but just kicked. I kicked both with and without music, and kicking with music was easier, but I think without music was also more "meditative." I think for my sessions for the next few weeks I'm just going to kick without counting or music. When I get to the stage where I can consistently kick for a whole half hour without dropping I'll think more about strategies for getting to 10,000 and counting.
I found that kicking in my g-units was a little annoying because of the inside sole lip, which makes it easier to kick the bag on an angle. I might get a new pair of lavers to kick in instead, since I've been considering getting a pair anyway (it just seems like something all footbaggers should have, whatever shoes they freestyle in )
I wasn't practising in the most ideal environment - in my living room - since it's very windy and rainy outside, but I guess there's not much I can do about that. When I go for 10,000 it will be something to consider.
You could always consider historical information to further refine assumptions because this used to be an event and there are recorded kicks and times.
I believe you have the right idea though already. You know it will take at least an hour, maybe safe to say between one and two hours.
i would not even worry about counting until you wanted to have a real go at it. When you can kick for 1.5 to two hours confidently then have someone count if you like. for sure in this day and age you will film regardless of your counting methodology.
I wrote:I had once gotten a little carried away in an informal and stupid competition with Luis Monhollon, trying to prove a point about footbag records. As part of this competition, I did over a thousand kicks in a row of just toe kicks, and over a thousand of just inside kicks (maybe two thousand, I can't remember, but, you'll find the numbers somewhere in a thread on this forum).
I wrote:2004 alternating inside kicks.
1112 alternating toe kicks.
(those two runs themselves were consecutive, that is, I didn't stop inbetween them. It took about 34 minutes, about the same amount of time as I usually spend doing basic kicks as a warm-up before practicing)
This brings back some more memories... It was these sorts of runs that left me feeling quite sore... Much more so than a typical 34-minute session. And, it was much less varied. On the other hand, its several hundred kicks more than I can usually fit into a 34-minute consecutives session. I take from this that my varied consecutive routine is slower than just using all toes or all insides or some combination of the two. It is not difficult to image that the OUTSIDE kicks might slow me down. But, I've always assumed that the KNEE kicks were somewhat FASTER than the inside kicks.
Anyway, if it took me 34 minutes to do about 3116 consecutive inside and toe kicks, than one can extrapolate that 90 minutes is still only enough time for about 9000 kicks... At my pace, I'd still figure on needing about 110 minutes. Once more, though, I just MIGHT be over-estimating the time it will take me (under-estimateing my pace)... Another thing I recall about having done over 3000 kicks in a row, is that it WAS DEFINITELY HARDER to count than my usual way of counting... I remember I sometimes felt like I had lost count... My strategy then was never to give myself the benefit of the doubt but to always assume the worst. So, If I was kicking and counting and asked myself "was that 1227? Or only 1127?..." - I'd always go with the lower number. That is to say, I did AT LEAST 2004 inside kicks, but it MIGHT have been 2104, or even 2204... If I had actually been at the higher number at any time that I lost count, than maybe 90 minutes for 10,000 is do-able.
Leaving aside the issue counting... it was that very instance that taught me the value varying the TYPES of kicks that I use when doing long runs of consecutives (I mean, I was always doing the VARIED style of kicks before, but I didn't really know the consequences of NOT varying my kicks until that long consecs run...), and that particular run was not even 1/3 of the way to 5 digits... I definitely wouldn't WANT to do only insides and toes, even if it meant I could reach the goal 25% faster.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Another method of counting could be video recording, and every 100 or 1000, waving your arms, or making a noise of some kind. This method wouldn't let you know when you reach your goal WHILE doing it, but it could involve less energy wasted on keeping track.
Alternately, you could hold 10 pennies in your hand, and drop them as you reach each thousand. Again, it might be too distracting to ensure you don't drop them unintentionally or something though. Just ideas.
The most I ever did was, like 1200-1500 in a consecutives contest. This was, like, 11 years ago, and it took about 15 minutes-ish.
Yeah, I've definitely used your "fingers" technique to assist in counting before, but, its not often that I really count consecutively up into multiple thousands. I think, as you described, I extended a finger for every hundred, and when all my fingers were up, that was a thousand, and since I was only going for two thousand, I didn't really need any aid to remember which "thousand" I was on...
I had a decent shred session tonight, and, as usual for my solo sessions, I did my typical warm-up. This time, it was almost exactly 33 minutes. Again, I only count up to one or two HUNDRED of a particular basic-kick "drill", and then, after a few uncounted inside kicks, I move on to another "drill". So, I only ever count a couple hundred kicks, and then start from ONE again... I did keep better track than usual, though, and when I was all done I WROTE DOWN all the drills I had done, and how far into each drill I went (50, 100, 175, 250, etc...). I came up with an estimate of 3100 kicks in 33 minutes. I'm convinced now that I'd been underestimating my typical warm-up kicks by about 5 or 6 hundred... Its good to know -- that means that Jeremy was actually closer to the mark on HOW LONG IT SHOULD TAKE to kick 10,000. At this point, I'd estimate at about 1.75 hours as a likely upper-limit, with approximately 95 minutes as the lower limit. As for me, I'm patient -- I'm not in any hurry to reach the goal -- I'm shooting for some time this fall, after the weather isn't really quite nice enough to play outside any more. Until then, I don't really want to use up too much time and energy on consecutive kicks ----
The irony is, I used to let my warm-up kicks drag on to 40 or 45 minutes, and I realized that I was just getting carried away -- that my time and energy would be better spend to cut-back on the kicks and get on with the freestyle. So, I'm now done to under 35 minutes, and I could still stand to shave a few more minutes off of the warm-up. But this whole endeavor is working backwards, upping the ante on the basic kicks again... So, for now I'm not going to actively INCREASE my consecutive kicking -- I'm just going to keep in shape doing what I'm already doing, and try to improve my endurance during the shredding part of my sessions -- I'll start doing 45 or 50 minute consecutive-kick sessions again when the shredding season is done. I'm already encouraged after tonight by realizing that I've only got to TRIPLE (approximately) my warm-up, rather than QUADRUPLE it. (Warm-up tonight was DROPLESS, by the way, until the very end -- but that's because I always skool TIMED CONSECUTIVES as the last major "drill". They're the riskiest drill, and one of the most energy-intensive, which is why I do them last. When I'm lucky, I get all the way through 1 or 2 hundred timed-consec toe kicks and then cool down with perhaps another 3 hundred basic kicks, but I dropped about 150 kicks into the timed-consec tonight, so I called it quits there. I did have one major upper-body foul, though, while doing consecutive same-side outside kicks -- all that strange stuff -- timed consec and same-side-outsides would NOT be part of any attempt at 10,000).
edit -- I don't think I'm going to bother "updating y'all on my progress" towards kicking 10,000. For somebody who has already done so much consecutive kicking, there isn't really all the much interesting training to do. I'll just keep on doing what I've always been doing, but a little bit more-so. I am still interested to hear Jeremy's observations as he puts much more effort into consecutive kicking than he previously has. I have enjoyed rambling on about my consecutive-kicking habit a little bit -- there never really has been many topics where it was appropriate to expound on this. But, I think that this is about all I really need to say about it. Thanks.
Last edited by Outsider on 11 Jul 2011 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Maybe if you had a cool enough friend to count and keep track on a piece of paper for you? I know many people here could do this if they wanted to. It would take a lot of patience, though. But if there's one thing a footbag player has, it's definitely patience. I've only gotten up to the hundreds, but I only stopped because it got boring and I realized I could keep going for a while, plus I wanted to do some freestyle rather than just keep kicking it. This summer, I banged out every 1 add listed on footbag.org 100 times on each side in about 5 hours, straight through (with a short drink break after every completed trick), and this one wouldn't take nearly that long... but no breaks I'd be interested in trying this challenge soon though. Cool idea.
Edit: Jon, also interesting to read about your consecutives drills. I had no idea you drilled that kind of stuff. Definitely good for endurance.
Editedit: I just read Erik's post about making a noise every time you hit 100... And I thought of another way of keeping track of your number. More than likely, your friend isn't going to want to sit there and watch you do 10,000 consecutives, so maybe you could get your friend to sit around and watch a movie, and every 100 kicks, you would yell or make a noise or say "100" and they would just have to put a mark on a piece of paper for every 100 kicks. Movies are (roughly) an average of 1 hour and 30 minutes, so when your friend is almost finished with the movie, they could pause it and count up how many hundred you hit and let you know how many you have to go.. I think this method would work well, and it's not TOO much of an inconvenience for your friend. Better be a pretty good friend though... preferably one who supports your hobby.
Thanks for another interesting post Jon! To be honest I'm annoyed I brought up counting at all. As I said earlier, I'll worry about it when I think I can actually get there.
The problem with knees is that I grew up playing Australian Rules Football, and because of this don't consider them a kick. I know footbag and AFL are completely different but since this is for my own benefit, I'll probably not use them. I've found in practice that not getting stuck on the same kick for more than a few hundred is fine, at least with around the 1000 kicks kind of scores. I think raised knee toe kicks and knees probably use the same muscles too.
I agree that it's easiest to go slower. I find if I kick around chest height it feels really easy and I can go for a longish time without feeling tired.
Bags is a good question. I find soft freestyle bags easiest, probably because that's what I'm most used to kicking. I have been experimenting with others though. I imagine 10,000 kicks is a good way of killing a freestyle bag. As always, would be interested in hearing Jon's opinion on this.
Jeremy wrote:I think raised knee toe kicks and knees probably use the same muscles too.
-- I concur.
I imagine 10,000 kicks is a good way of killing a freestyle bag.
-- disagree... My regular consec kicking is how I break-in new bags. Some bags take less breaking-in than others. I also practice FLAPPER KICKS by the thousand too, and I believe that they are much more impactful on a bag. I've subjected Abshire bags, Matt Cross bags, Nate Pipenburg bags, and a Hania Mickiewicz bag to the rigors of my warm-up kicks and flapper kicks lately. I'd say that a NEW bag has no trouble surviving 10,000 in total. I fact, for many bags, its 10,000 kicks before I feel that they're really broken in. For many bags, its much more than that... perhaps at least 20,000 kicks. I'll offer a very rough estimate and suggest that after my warm-up and drilling flappers for a little while, I'll do 5,000 kicks in a session (very rough estimate). So, 20,000 kicks is only four sessions for me. I've had a few bags break a seam in the middle of session 1 or 2, but that is rare --- hasn't happened in years.
On the other hand, if a bag were already broken-in and perhaps even half-way to worn-out, I would choose not to use this bag for consecs, and would actively AVOID using this for flapper kicks. Yes, many kicks can wear-out a bag, but this is only a concern if a bag is already on the way to being worn-out. Personally, I haven't broken-in a bag by kneeding it with my hands in many years -- I just kick them alot.
I actually really like a bag that takes ALOT of breaking-in, because, as drillbit mentioned, a bag with some "pop" is preferred (more-so for flappers -- doesn't really matter much for consecs) and I'm happy to have to give a bag 100,000 kicks before I think I shouldn't do any more warm-ups and flappers with it any more, though most bags probably will be moved-off the "Warm-up and Flapper" rotation before I've gone half that far. Too bad...
edit --- oh, yeah, um... one must certainly work harder to control a very new and un-broken-in bag. I definitely would NOT use a brand-new bag for any actual 10,000 kick attempt. I'd use something that feels new, but already 100% broken-in.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Consecutive kicks can be fun and a good little workout, good luck getting 10,000. I agree that it becomes "meditative" which is something I enjoy about it. When it comes to counting I just mark the time spent kicking. Unless you are going for specific (arbitrary) records you can just take a sample of how many kicks one can average in 10 or 30 seconds or a minute (or all and average) and do the arithmetic. It would be a simple way to get a good estimate on the number of kicks you are doing while maintaining a free, meditative environment free from the distraction of counting. The ideal situation would be to have someone else counting you but it's unlikely you will find someone with that amount of patience and time, especially if you drop around 2500 or something.
My record is around 40 minutes of all alternating insides to hand catch since my hips, like Jon mentioned, we dying from the poor form of all inside kicks. I sampled 44 kicks in 30 seconds at a what feels like solid pace for me and ended up with about 3520 kicks for 40 minutes. This puts me at a slower pace than Jon I believe except there are kicks he doesn't count but I think it's about right. No where near 10,000 but this has inspired me to see what I can do. Thanks.
Well, I said I wasn't going to make any more posts on my "progress" towards the 5-digit goal, but tonight after work I had an exceptionally good kick, and I wanted to tell y'all about it.
38 minutes, no drops, no upper body fouls. Pretty much a perfect warm-up session.
210 alternating insides.
150 alternating toes (mostly flicks, about 30 knee-raising kicks in the middle).
150 more alternating insides.
250 more alternating toes (75 flicks, 100 knee-raising, another 75 flicks).
20 alternating insides
120 alternating outsides, with two alternating insides inbetween each (a very simple pattern of right inside > left inside > right outside > left inside > right inside > left outside > repeat...) so, thats 360 total kicks.
20 alternating insides.
100 alternating toe flicks.
50 alternating knee bumps, with two alternating insides inbetween each (same simple pattern as with outside kicks) for a total of 150 kicks/bumps.
10 right-to-left knee bumps, with alternating insides inbetween (right knee > left knee > right inside > left inside > repeat 10 times) for 40 kicks total.
10 left-to-right knee bumps with alternating insides inbetween (same as above, in with left/right reversed) for another 40 kicks.
20 pairs of alternating knee-bumps with 1 inside kick inbetween (right knee > left knee > right inside > left knee > right knee > left inside > rpt 10 more times) for 60 total kicks.
20 alternating insides.
100 alternating knee-bumps (just knees -- no inside kicks)
20 alternating insides.
100 alternating toe flicks.
20 alternating insides.
50 alternating outsides with two alternating insides between each outside (same as my first drill of outside > inside > inside > op outside, but only half as many) for 150 kicks.
50 pairs of left inside > right outside > repeat... for 100 kicks.
50 pairs of right inside > left outside > repeat... for another 100.
30 more alternating outsides (same as original outsides drill) for 90 kicks.
15 right foot same-side outsides.
15 left foot same-side outsides.
30 more alternating outsides (same inside inside outside pattern) for 90 kicks.
30 alternating insides.
250 alternating knee-bumps.
20 alternating insides.
100 alternating toe flicks.
30 alternating insides.
150 alternating speed-consecutive toe kicks.
50 alternating insides.
50 alternating knee-bumps
20 alternating insides.
40 alternating outsides (with the usual inside inside outside drill) for 120 total.
50 alternating insides.
50 alternating toe flicks.
Hand catch.
There's probably a few dozen more random inside kicks inside some of those patterns, like, in-between the 15 same-side outsides and in a few other spots, but, I was a little more formal than usual in how I approached the inside kicks that I ordinarily do after a more demanding drill. That is, I usually don't count those alternating insides to be exactly 20 in a row, I just do them without counting until I feel ready to begin one of those other drills. Some of those drills, like the consecutive alternating knee bumps, take more effort and need more focus than insides or toe-flicks, so I don't want to go directly from same-side-outsides to hundreds of alternating knees -- I need something very simple in-between to prepare myself, and thats what all those short sequences of "20 alternating insides" are. The difference tonight was simply that, for the sake of being able to get a somewhat more precise COUNT of total kicks, I deliberately did 20 every time, except for a couple of times where I needed a little more, like after a bunch of outside and before my big rally of alternating knees, and before my speed-consecutive toes.
Speed-consecutive toes is basically the end of my warm-up. However, that style of kicking requires a sort of rigid form. I spend a half-hour trying to get loose, only to get all tight at the very end. So, if I'm lucky enough to actually get through a good rally of speed-consecs without dropping, or if I'm not simply ready to just quit when I drop in speed-consecs after having already gone for a half-hour, I like to run through a short sequence of all the basics again to get loose again... sort of undoing the tightness of the speed consecs.
So, that is the basic outline of my typical warm-up session -- I've been doing this more-or-less the same for many years, whenever I kick solo. I certainly don't always make it through all that without dropping. I almost never make it through without a couple of upper-body fouls. Getting all my knee-bumps straight through is also rare. Three days ago, for instance, I got to 78 knee-bumps and had to bail to inside kicks (I don't like to stop until I've gotten to 100 straight through), and then tried again getting less than 20, bailed, tried again with less than 20, bailed, and finally got past 100 on the 4th attempt. When I'm feeling shaky, I skip the same-side outsides (it was the same-side outsides that caused my only upper-body foul on on Monday...), but when I'm feeling good or just don't care, I'll go for 20 same-side outsides, or, two sets of ten on each side.
When I'm not feeling extra-self-conscious about my warm-up because of an ongoing Modified thread... I kind of like it when I drop early or in the middle of the warm-up. Then any stress I might have about going through the whole thing dropless disappears and I can feel even more relaxed. Until you mess-up, you're worried about messing-up. After you've already messed-up, not more worries... But, finishing without messing-up is obviously also nice.
I don't always count quite that presicesly -- I usually count to at least 100 of some things, and then just go on a little bit further. This is partly because, I sort of don't feel like I've actually loosened-up much while I'm counting, so I get to 100, and then go-on a bit further without counting until I feel relaxed.
About the knee bumps, Jeremy surmised that raised-knee toe kicks use the same muscles, and this is basically true. However, technique for alternating knee bumps is more difficult, and requires a somewhat more energetic kick. So, raised-knee toe-kicks are sort of like knee-bump LIGHT (as in "reduced calories" or something...). I usually find 100 or more knee-bumps to be sort of like a short sprint in the middle of my jog. That is, the insides and toes and outside are like a jog, and a few of the more energetic drills are the short sprint (consec knees and speed-consec toes). Really, I think jog and sprint are sort of an exaggeration. Maybe the 100+ knees is the jog in the middle of my brisk walk... I like the knee-bumps to get me somewhat tired and short of breath. Today I found a really good groove, so the knees seemed unusually easy. I don't actually like it as much when that happens because I'll do even more of them than usual and still not feel like I'd just done my sprint...
Even though I find the whole thing only really equivalent to a brisk-walk and light jog, I tend to believe that this whole exercise offers a cardio-vascular benefit that I don't get from shred. When I shred, it is surely more intense, but after a few minutes I stop altogether, get my breath, and then shred more. I'm not sure just how to categorize that effort as cardiovascular exercise. And thats when I shred alone -- shredding in a 5-man circle with NYFA in the city is probably even less cardio-challenging. Thus, though I think this 30+ minute consec kicks thing is very light work, it is at least 30+ minutes of non-stop movement.
Strangely, I often feel like that light cardio exercise does NOT benefit my endurance when shredding. Shred is so different that my legs and heart/lungs can still tire quickly, even when I've been fairly consistent in doing this consecutive-workout. This is somewhat disappointing, but, I'm not interested in a cardiovascular work-out ONLY for the benefit of my shred. I figure its good for my health over-all, even if it doesn't help my shred much.
I do this now in large part for the assumed exercise benefits, but I didn't really start doing this for the exercise -- I began doing this to master basic kicks, and because I thought shred (even the leg-overs and mirages and occasional egg-beaters that was back then, for me, Shred) was hard on my body and deserved some warming-up. When I was new in the game I suffered from nasty groin-pulls a few times (I think it was mostly those egg-beaters) and my perceived solution (after a period of not playing) was stretching and warming-up alot. I thought inside kicks, especially nice big exaggerated high inside kicks where I lifted my legs a little higher than necessary, felt like a good way to loosen-up the groin. And though inside kicks even then were basically very very easy, being decent at just plain old simple toe kicks seemed tough and deserved some effort ("how," I asked myself "could I ever consider being an expert footbag player if I couldn't MASTER toe kicks, and knee kicks, etc.?" If I was going to master all those crazy dexing & spinning stalls, I figured I'd also be expected to be able to do basic kicks with ease. At some level, I think players who can shred hard but can't kick with ease must, or should, feel some sort of shame... -- its like how people say that Albert Einstein was atrocious at simple arithmetic, and how ridiculous it seems that this should be so [those stories, I think, are mostly bogus -- he was terrific at math of all kinds -- he was, though, probably pretty clueless about such basic things as shopping and paying bills, etc, {and he had a certain deliberate disdain for wardrobe and hair-combing,} and that lack of common sense about shopping and bill-paying probably gave rise to the rumors that he couldn't help kids with their math homework].) Anyway, with all the various benefits of warming-up and cardio, and the meditating/relaxing thing, etc, I just kept-on doing lots of consecutive kicking as a habit, and often a sort of pre-requisite before skooling some actual freestyle. Obviously, I've got a small problem with obsessive-compulsive tendancies... The example of how it can be an actual PROBLEM is (like many obsessive-compulsives, I think) is that, with all that extra TIME that I feel like I need to have to actually get in a good practice, I often just skip playing entirely, based on the notion that if I don't have time or energy to go through my entire overly-long routines than I just won't bother to play at all... Thats surely a mistake, but I've made that same mistake COUNTLESS times... I think that's what they say
about alot of obsessive-compulsives -- that they're sort of "all-or-nothing" in their behavior -- obsessive-compulsives will clean alot, but, if they feel overwhelmed by all the cleaning that they think they need to do, then they can wind up abondoning any sort of cleaning at all... I'm not sure about all that.
Anyway, I had a very good session practicing flapper-kick stuff after my warm-up (took a 15-20 minute break after the warm-up, then did an 1 + 1/4 hours of flapper stuff, with another 15 minute break in the middle of the flappers). I estimate I did well over 2000 more kicks of various kinds in that period (perhaps 2/3 flappers and 1/3 inside kicks). So, altogether over 5000 kicks on this footbag today. Somewhat more than I'd done on Monday. Point is, already past 10,000 kicks on this footbag, and it is DEFINITELY not destroyed, as Jeremy feared so many kicks might do. I wouldn't even consider this particular bag broken-in yet. Actually, I had used this bag only once before this week, one session similar to Monday's, so, about 15,000 kicks on this bag now, and it will surely take 15,000 more before its feeling decent for shred, and maybe somewhat more than that. If I'm lucky, I could get 60,000 kicks out of this bag before I need to stop using it for consecs and flappers. Of all the last five bags I've used, this one certainly feels like it will be the slowest to break-in. Most footbaggers would probably dislike that, but I'm the opposite -- 60,000 kicks will take me less than two months, and I'll be happy if I can keep using this bag for my warm-ups and flappers for all that time or more (I might drill in this way twice a week -- I'd like to do this 3 times per week, but, tomorrow or the next day I'll surely feel lazy and skip...).
Anyway, I felt really good about no drops/no fouls/no desparate saves, and I was pretty happy to make it through a good rally of speed-consecs and a cool-down. I listened to almost an entire disc of Otis Redding while kicking, and then a disc of The Talking Heads and a Rush album on tape while skooling flappers (Stop Making Sense and Fly By Night). And now I'm going to take a shower with my Lavers on (to clean them) and go to bed. If only I didn't have to work tomorrow, this day would be quite good.
Last edited by Outsider on 15 Jul 2011 11:29, edited 1 time in total.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Thanks for another interesting post Jon. I find all the posts in this topic inspiring, in terms of reaching my goal, and every time I read them it immediately instils a strong desire to have a consec. kicking session, despite being at the moment a little drunk and exhausted after spending most of the day measuring the photosynthetic rates of different plants (parasitic plants vs hosts) and then drinking beers (and more recently napping). It's refreshing to have some depth to posts on modified as well .
Just regarding bags and how they survive lots of kicking, I wonder what the weight and amount of metal in your bags is? I think my main freestyle bags are entirely filled with metal to about 60g. I've found these bags can sometimes only last a month (probably 3-6 on average though) of daily freestyle sessions, which seem lighter on the bag than kicking, although maybe I'm wrong about that. In any event, I think I probably have enough bags to last me a few years, even if they wear out at a rate of one a month, so it's probably not a big deal.
I was impressed with how long a specific your warm up was, and how well you remembered it. Is this a routine that you try to repeat exactly as written every time, or is there some variation each session (perhaps the order or how many you do to be happy with changes slightly?)
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I'd be interested in trying this challenge soon though. Cool idea.
