Possible evolution/growth direction

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 15 Sep 2013 15:35

Tonight i wrapped up some of my thoughts.

We drill to master the moves.

Then we have the freestyle itself – our intention to hit a string of tricks. We all know that feeling which occasionally comes at some point of a string, the feeling that I am busting out right now. It goes like a wave and we “close” points of the string with a set of tricks in a growing energy manner, like chapters in a book. (someting>something>drifter>spinning osis>torque) (spinning whirl>scorpions tail>Mobius) (mirage>smear>dlo>smog/alpine smear)

This is really similar to b-boying or breakdancing. The only difference is that dancers ” close” their chapters of well drilled moves in beat with music. Which makes their technical skill much more pleasuring to witness. Which also takes specific skill/feeling to coordinate with beats of Funk,Hip-hop, etc.

As for freestyle, I believe it has somewhat same roots of “busting out” as breaking. If it could be somewhat synchronized to music and we had bigger bags. We could make this amazing, hard sport easier to enjoy and understand for everyone. Thus more people will take part in the evolution of freestyle. Yes only few could hit most of the beats clean.But we can definitely hit higher points and set the whole mood at good level of play. It would make footbag much more dynamic to watch. Of course training will become more challenging, one would need to plan his combos in certain patterns thus creating his own "sets".

At events I didn’t notice that we have similar types of music played. What I personally believe that we need DJ’s, breakdance DJ’s to play for competition like Circle, Shred 30 and all that stuff. And to play quality music at non-competition time. It will give a more professional or “better organized” impression of the event for everyone. Haven’t been to many events so don’t go hard on me on this one ,ok

EDIT:

Some examples of moves:

Series of B-bag move of the month:

Ramil with "Ramovski" [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wec1Omd9oME[/youtube]

Ramil ( don't remember the name of these 2 tricks) [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd8ILREdZFQ[/youtube]

Kljopa i want to call this godown sonic [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RIRgCCmKCk[/youtube]

There are a few tricks in videos i uploaded this summer. Gravity control [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLln-rWcYp4[/youtube] and this [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF0yBXPLyqo[/youtube]

Jorden moir on 3:23 http://juggling.tv/12796

I also remember Jorden having done some trick in his Series of sessions. Also Tom Mosher with Moshers Tail which is a handstand with the bag staying on the toe.

h4x354x0r · Post by **h4x354x0r** » 15 Sep 2013 18:06

A lot of different footbag moves have their own rhythm; the arc of the bag, the pattern of footfalls, the geometry of high and wide points in body movements. I'd be so lost without the beat of the music as a foundation for my movement. The "dance" is a deep, complex, and immensely rewarding challenge.

Turn it on, turn it up, maybe get a little funky. I totally agree.

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 15 Sep 2013 19:58

I see dance when the videos are silent. The players moves make beats in my head. I would love to see someone take footbag + b-boy and break it down!!! Or any kind of truly dance choreography to music would be sweet.

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 16 Sep 2013 01:41

You don't have to be a bboy to mix it up. Though it would be really cool and would challenge a Footbag player to develop not only his lower body and leg muscles but all of his body.

Footbag is dynamic itself and we actually have "freezes" we can do dead contacts to hit beats.

Look at Football freestyle, they have Red BC One 1 vs 1 battles with DJ's and shit. Maybe they aren't so musical but shit they battle and this form of competition is what played a huge roll in the growth of breakdance.

h4x354x0r wrote:Turn it on, turn it up, maybe get a little funky

Yeah! It is all about getting funky with your run.

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 16 Sep 2013 02:56

Kljopa wrote:You don't have to be a bboy to mix it up. Though it would be really cool and would challenge a Footbag player to develop not only his lower body and leg muscles but all of his body.

Footbag is dynamic itself and we actually have "freezes" we can do dead contacts to hit beats.

Look at Football freestyle, they have Red BC One 1 vs 1 battles with DJ's and shit. Maybe they aren't so musical but shit they battle and this form of competition is what played a huge roll in the growth of breakdance.

No you dont have to be a b-boy. I just meant to take the flavor of the b-boy style or breaker style and intertwine it into a footbag routine.

I do recognize how dynamic footbag is. As is footbag has already come a long way from its birth. Its constantly evolving. I love it.

Trust me Im all over Football Freestyle. Look at my thread "Multi thought / topic" in general footbag.

I think freestyle footbag and freestyle football are both very "musical". They both have tons of style and rhythm. Both have even more room to evolve.

Watch this http://juggling.tv/12796 This is Jorden Moir. He does a break move in this vid ( Jump to 3:23 ) that has spurred many ideas of blending b-boy break style into footbag...

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 16 Sep 2013 04:03

I was saying the same yeah, that you can get the flavor without being able to do breakdance freezes.

I'm very sure you are about footbag, you wouldn't post here if you weren't!

The sports are very musical i meant that it is hard to hit every single beat like dancers do and that we have our own version of a freeze with dead contacts.

I have seen Jordens video! Those moves are great!

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 16 Sep 2013 05:24

Ok we are on the same page

Online Competition 2013 Official Release! (Both videos) I think its the Sick 1 video within that one player does another move with that b-boy feel. Just another example that your thoughts are valid.

Also your absolutely right that hitting every beat is nearly impossible. I think accomplishing this feet er feat could be done with more control in the set of the bag. A lower height would require faster foot movement, higher would allow a slower pace. I do like the freeze move, although it could be done with a little more flare if you will.

Hey to build on your opening post. I was thinking of taking basic dance ( b-boy, breaker, hip-hop ) moves and contributing footbag moves that could go well with them.

The Criss Cross ( go to time stamp 1:36 ), yeah easy classic hip hop move...Then add clippers to this!?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6W3dAvmVaU[/youtube]

The Helicopter ( Well Jorden already showed us how this could work into footbag. )
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYFb2CNbBNA[/youtube]

I seen many steps and movements in this vid that could be worked into a footbag routine.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEhTgJgSmig[/youtube]

Here is a move I have been inventing in my head for weeks now. It is a barrel roll, I see it rolling out of Osis nicely. If anyone has an idea for a move to use to work up to this move let me know.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N9C_Awht3g[/youtube]

What do you think? There are tons more to speak of and work on.

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 16 Sep 2013 05:30

I totally agree on similarity of body movement, in fact I practice Toprock and incorporate footbag moves into my dance.

Totally agree on the point that beats are measured with set height.

Didn't quite understand the last video, which trick can roll out of osis?

P.S

That one player in Sick 1 video is me.
I sent you a PM btw.

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 16 Sep 2013 06:07

"Didn't quite understand the last video, which trick can roll out of osis?"

The very first move the kid busts. Its a crazy barrel roll. Almost looks like a mctwist.

BTW That move you entered for Sick 1 was sick. Totally through me off. You won most creative in my book

Ok so here is my thought on how to perform this "Barrel Rolling Osis"

Example:

left foot osis > right foot osis > left osis, right as the foot connects with the bag you lay back till your as parallel to the ground as possible while barrel rolling left with your left leg behind your right. Twisting your head and arms left for momentum. The rotation will be about 180* so that as you rotate your stomach will now be facing the ground. From this advantage your right leg will be easy to plant on the ground and then continuing the momentum the left leg can continue the swing to maintain centrifugal force on the bag. At this point the left leg could continue its swing in front in a raking motion or behind in an osis motion.

Well thats my thoughts on how to pull this off. I have made no attempts yet.

A better video to emphasize on the spinning motion of the move:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzC2-DT0Uco[/youtube]

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 17 Sep 2013 00:55

Glad to hear you liked me move!

Barrel Rolling is quite difficult in my opinion, you have to really master it to do it with a bag! One thing i was working on but then stopped is just doing a huge toe set and then backflip>clipper. We had this "kamikaze set" name idea going around in Tallinn.

Too bad people show little interest in this topic. We could learn a lot. Football freestylers widely use freezes and they already have blended in elements of hiphop.

We could at least have DJ's. If one sees that someone changes music for each person in circle competition he would assume that music has to do something with this even if it isn't readable. Something "yeah i get it, they do hacky tricks to music with a DJ".

Battles though would bring something spicy to competition, people trying to prove others that their style is superior. It's more fun for people to observe.

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 17 Sep 2013 01:30

Freestyle with a Dj sounds sick. As does battles. Im diggin your ideas I think in time it may catch on. But hip-hop has not been the backbone of footbag the way it seems to be with freestyle football.

Someone I think would be awesome to work with on this subject is Sean Garnier!!!

Yo check this. Unreal Andreas does something crazy at the end. Sick break move while rolling around the ball.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjdRrZcBD-Q[/youtube]

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 17 Sep 2013 14:06

Your ideas are good -- the notion isn't a bad one ---- making footbag more of a dance-performance rather than just a display of technical dexing/spinning/ducking skills.

The video above is cool --- the technical skills of those players are cool. The dance-moves of those players are cool.

But, whats the point of asking Freestyle Footbag to move in this direction?

Is the point (in part) to make our sport more crowd-friendly, spectator-friendly, and thus increase our spectatorship, our levels of participation, and our marketability/sponsorships? Because, if that is (in part) the objective, then I'm not sure the evidence supports this.

I don't watch alot of freestyle soccer, but this video-title said that this is the "World Championships" of this event, and by the look of it, they don't have a big attendance to brag about --- a handful of spectators, by the looks of it, all of them are also participants. That is to say, just because they have a great crowd-pleasing style of play doesn't mean that they're actually attracting a crowd. So, with all their cool dance moves, they're still basically just like us --- the only people watching their big show are also just the other players who are there to play in the big show ---- the result is that its not really a very big show at all.

Personally, I'd like to see more interesting stuff like those dance moves done with a footbag. I'm mostly all-for adding to the TYPES of different skills that we make a part of our game. I tend to doubt, though, that it will dramatically change the popularity of our game --- there's only so many people that are going to take a big interest in "juggling with your feet", even if we make more dance-moves a bigger part of our juggling act, even if we liven-up our costumes, even if we have dueling DJ's breakin fresh beats...

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong about all that, but, from my point of view, the rule is "show, don't tell". You won't get footbag freestyle players to change how they play the game by asking them to "do it differently"... You've got to DEMONSTRATE to the rest of the footbag freestyle world what it is you think the rest of us should be doing. If you demonstrate it well enough, some other players may also try to learn your moves... "be the change you want to see in the world." === Aleksei, props to you for leading the way, but, good luck, because its going to be a long uphill battle to get other freestylers to follow your lead. Your going to have keep doing this, put it out there for people to see in video and in person, do a great deal more variations, and hit big stuff and hit it well. I know that now I'll be paying more attention to your posts and especially to your videos, looking to see some more of your style.

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 17 Sep 2013 21:28

Outsider wrote: But, whats the point of asking Freestyle Footbag to move in this direction?

Is the point (in part) to make our sport more crowd-friendly, spectator-friendly, and thus increase our spectatorship, our levels of participation, and our marketability/sponsorships? Because, if that is (in part) the objective, then I'm not sure the evidence supports this.

I don't watch alot of freestyle soccer, but this video-title said that this is the "World Championships" of this event, and by the look of it, they don't have a big attendance to brag about ---

Whats the point? Its an option, its growth. And yes I think this type of growth could bring more players and spectators. But thats not the most important thing. Just offering something new to the sport is interesting and fresh. Honza and Klouda have evolved into football. Two of the greats see something.....

Attendance + Evidence !? Red Bull Street Style World Finals 2012 Italy. Upwards of 15,000 spectators. Plus multiple players from 50 countries:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtwLshDz44[/youtube]

Outsider wrote: there's only so many people that are going to take a big interest in "juggling with your feet", even if we make more dance-moves a bigger part of our juggling act, even if we liven-up our costumes, even if we have dueling DJ's breakin fresh beats...

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong about all that, but, from my point of view, the rule is "show, don't tell". You won't get footbag freestyle players to change how they play the game by asking them to "do it differently"... You've got to DEMONSTRATE to the rest of the footbag freestyle world what it is you think the rest of us should be doing. If you demonstrate it well enough, some other players may also try to learn your moves... "be the change you want to see in the world." === Aleksei, props to you for leading the way, but, good luck, because its going to be a long uphill battle to get other freestylers to follow your lead. Your going to have keep doing this, put it out there for people to see in video and in person, do a great deal more variations, and hit big stuff and hit it well. I know that now I'll be paying more attention to your posts and especially to your videos, looking to see some more of your style.

Your right on two things here. Juggling with your feet is only going to interest certain players and spectators. Your also right that life is show dont tell, more actions less words. But then again why would the introduction of adopting ideas from different sports that have a strong following require allot of action to gain support? Freestyle football, and break dancing both have a huge following and plenty of evidence to back it up.

None the less you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink...I think Kljopa has offered plenty of water but nobody wants to drink it. Like he said not many players are interested in this topic or direction.

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 21 Sep 2013 05:09

There were like 500.000 spectators for the Red Bull street style last year, i have a friend who is a football freestyler. It certainly gets more attention just because red bull is involved.

If we were to add more variety to our trick selection. Fore example: sit down and freezes. There is a lot to be created. I will update my first post with some examples of moves. And will post new ones here too.

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 21 Sep 2013 16:12

Like Jon said. Lead by example, so if you got the time. Videos would be best for depicting moves and concepts...

Im thinking about getting a video camera. I would like to start doing some clips on ideas.

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 23 Sep 2013 01:04

Kljopa wrote:There were like 500.000 spectators for the Red Bull street style last year,

Online, i forgot to mention online!

Yeah i agree with John, showing is better than saying. Something was already presented, but yet again there is more to show and to be performed better. I can only say that there are so many tricks to be done. Only this weekend i made up a few new variations of tricks and totally new stuff too.

In my opinion routines could be shorter too. Like 45-60 secs, without filler. Something like shred 30 coordinated to music. I will try to edit some footage of high level players to bboy music to show how it fits. The changing rhythms of funk fit the concept of routines, the transitions from downtime tricks, dexless, shuffle would be done more dynamically.

And already we can add sit down style. Some people practiced it, Pavel Motorov even used it in routines. Not many though picked it up.

So this i what i added to the first post. So if anyone has more links to be posted, tell me.

Some examples of moves:

Series of B-bag move of the month:

Ramil with "Ramovski" [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wec1Omd9oME[/youtube]

Ramil ( don't remember the name of these 2 tricks) [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd8ILREdZFQ[/youtube]

Kljopa i want to call this godown sonic [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RIRgCCmKCk[/youtube]

There are a few tricks in videos i uploaded this summer. Gravity control [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLln-rWcYp4[/youtube] and this [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF0yBXPLyqo[/youtube]

Jorden moir on 3:23 http://juggling.tv/12796

I also remember Jorden having done some trick in his Series of sessions. Also Tom Mosher with Moshers Tail which is a handstand with the bag staying on the toe.

Strix · Post by **Strix** » 25 Sep 2013 01:45

Great vids worth watching multiple times!!!

I think footbag has plenty of room for growth in itself and with the adaptation of other styles or sports. It would also seem that those very same options have always existed but never adopted, leads one to ponder why...

Would the adoption of "streetstyle football" or "b-boy" flavors take away from or add to freestyle footbag as a sport / game?

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 27 Sep 2013 00:22

I think footbag will only benefit, since not many people will participate in working on new styles. The majority will continue to develop the "original" footbag.

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 21 Oct 2013 16:30

How about Shred 30, but technically and creatively. Drop the adds add the beat hitting.

Sort of a routine without all the filler taken out, hard combos practiced to music. It could be varied from 25 to 35 secs depending on the persons music cut.

Another concept of sit down style/breaking tricks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... TUb3vQ41UA . There are 3 variations of this from the third contact starting. I will post them eventually, still need time to sharpen them as well as this variation.

I will post another move by the end of this week though.

Kljopa · Post by **Kljopa** » 26 Oct 2013 16:38

Volume 5

The trick from Gravity Control video, new version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrTsMBGx ... e=youtu.be

modified

Possible evolution/growth direction

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