Ducking Paradox

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 04 Jun 2004 13:07

I'm wondering why a ducking butterfly set from a clipper (obviously the same leg that does the dex) can't be considered paradox, same with ducking a butterfly. Also, today I thought I hit Ducking Paradox Mirage, but couldn't even find it on footbag.org or in the Move Nickname List... does it not exist, or what's the deal with these things?

Thanks for any help.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 04 Jun 2004 13:16

So you mean a Weaving Butterfly? Oops, yeah, weaving is ducking opposite side. So right clip>duck>right butterfly?

Yeah it kinda feels paradoxy, like far pickup does. I'm just not an expert on paradox, its one of those things that don't make much sense at times.

Check out the Paradox debate http://www.modified.ca/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=4533 and the "head paradox thread http://www.modified.ca/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=5301

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 04 Jun 2004 13:22

Thanks for the links, I'll check them later tonight when I have a bit more time to read them.

"Paradox butterfly" : clip > same out [pdx] [dex] > op clip [xbd] [del]

I'm surprised that I just started wondering about why it's not considered pdx only now... since you would think it would be pdx since its set from a cross body position and dexed with the same leg.

And also, same thing applies with hitting "ducking paradox butterfly"...

I'm still wondering if ducking pdx mirage is considered pdx or not since I can't find anything on it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 04 Jun 2004 13:34

As far as I am aware, Pdx. Butterfly doesn't exist. After all you can hit butterfly or whirl set from crossbody,and dexed with the same leg and both of these are not paradox.
Pdx. Ducking Mirage does indeed exist, and is 4 adds. Check out monsterhack.com, freestlye, trick list & demos. There you will find a video of Pdx. Ducking Mirage, and is catagorized under four adds.

edit:my bad

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 04 Jun 2004 13:43

ovetin wrote:As far as I am aware, Pdx. Butterfly doesn't exist. After all you can hit butterfly or whirl set from crossbody,and dexed with the same leg and both of these are not paradox.
Pdx. Ducking Mirage does indeed exist, and is 4 adds. Check out monsterhack.com, freestlye, trick list & demos. There you will find a video of Pdx. Ducking Butterfly, and is catagorized under four adds.

I think you mean Ducking Pdx Mirage, right?

thanks for the link...

Iain · Post by **Iain** » 04 Jun 2004 13:45

ovetin wrote:weaving is ducking opposite side. So right clip>duck>right butterfly?

Umm...if u set weaving from ur right clipper, it goes up the left side of your neck, down the right side, and back onto ur right clipper.

If what ur calling ur paradox mirage:

clip set > duck > same in > op toe

Then that does get the paradox add. Footbag.org doesn't every single trick. I couldn't imagine a site that did.

Things like far legover don't get paradox adds because they simply aren't paradox. I think a good basic understanding of paradox is that it has to be set from clipper and there has to be a change of motion. There is no change in motion in a far legover. I don't feel like getting in depth about paradox so i'm clicking submit now.

EDIT:

After all you can hit butterfly or whirl set from crossbody,and dexed with the same leg and both of these are not paradox.

whirl can be hit paradox

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 04 Jun 2004 16:52

I know what weaving butterfly is, I was just wondering if that was the move Chris was referring to as "pdx. butterfly".

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 04 Jun 2004 18:16

Omnicriz wrote: whirl can be hit paradox

Isn't Mullet a Ducking PS Whirl?
Therefore, if a move can be paradox, then it's also paradox with the duck.

Although you're talking about weaving, arent you?

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 04 Jun 2004 18:36

I don't think you get what I'm asking. I KNOW that Ducking Paradox Mirage exists, I was just confused because I couldn't find info on it anywheres.

I'm not asking why a butterfly, ducking butterfly (or anything else, I'm just using these two as an example) can't be paradox if set from a cross body position, and then dexed with the same leg. I don't see why there would be an exception to the paradox rule with butterflies.

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » 04 Jun 2004 20:57

yeh i find paradox something that i dont like to question, i just accept it if ppl say its paradox or not. i guess thats pretty lame of me but meh...
alot of things are just weird like say you have pdx illusion, then pdx delusion, both moves caught to op toe.. then say Barfly, which is like a pdx delusion but caught to clipper rather than toe, and its not paradox... ppl argue that some things feel/ dont feel paradox, but thats sounds too subjective to be a proper way of defining an add component..

Zippo · Post by **Zippo** » 04 Jun 2004 21:37

i don't think illusion gets a paradox add does it??

and it doesn't apply to butterflies because generally out>in dexes aren't given a paradox add, because the moves aren't made significantly harder/diffrent by the cross-body set

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 04 Jun 2004 21:41

Illusion gets paradox.

Zippo · Post by **Zippo** » 04 Jun 2004 21:48

oops ur right illusion does get paradox, but

"However, there is a class of moves starting with a clipper set for which the difficulty of executing the move is *not* appreciably different for *either* side set. Such moves generally involve OUT-IN dexterities.."

just a little expert from .org's paradox tutorial

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 04 Jun 2004 21:59

All dexes CLIP > SAME IN/OUT get paradox exept if dexing leg stalls the bag without support leg has dexed it after setting leg.

But exeptions are:
Butterfly, Barfly and Reverse Whirl

Spin switches setting and support legs in this case, so CLIP > (back) SPIN > OP OUT/IN gets paradox with same exeptions.

- Anssi Sundberg

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 05 Jun 2004 07:43

Thanks alot guys, I can understand why it doesn't "feel" paradox, because it's not harder at all for a butterfly... thx, peace.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Jun 2004 23:45

personally I find pdx illusion much harder than bubba - however I admit that I'm pretty weird with my illusions - I find blizzard easier than pdx illusion. Infact I probably find pdx flail easier than pdx illusion.