Planting a Paradox

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 27 Jun 2004 07:12

Is it true that planting negates paradox?

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 27 Jun 2004 07:15

I believe that some people say that yes it would, but others say it's a style preference.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 27 Jun 2004 09:36

Maybe somebody who know will write how it is OFFICIAL. Not how he think.

In my head it's style preference.

AIvanyo · Post by **AIvanyo** » 27 Jun 2004 14:00

I dont like when people plant the paradox, I'm one of those people who thinks that it isn't a paradox if it is planted.

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 27 Jun 2004 15:31

is is "official" that planting negates paradox.

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 27 Jun 2004 15:41

Thanks Chris...

I don't plant my paradox's by the way

. I've experimented with planting on paradox mirages every now and then, but not normally.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 27 Jun 2004 18:11

I'm not totally sure I understand this concept of planting negating the paradox of a move. Okay, I mean, I think I understand the concept. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure that YOU all understand the concept.

If planting negates paradox, then there is no paradox in Blur or Fog or Paradox Symposium Whirl. In fact, if planting negates paradox, then the idea of a Paradox Symposium Whirl is a paradox itself, since you've got to plant and jump off the dex leg in order to do the symposium element, so adding the symposium element to a paradox whirl automatically gets rid of the paradox element of the trick.

Hey, I'm not taking sides here. I really don't care which way you all decide it. But I would like some clarity. And speaking of clarity, can somebody please tell me where this concept came from in the first place, since the last time I looked I though we were discussing something more like "stepping negates paradox", which is similar but not completely the same as "planting negates paradox".

I don't really see why either concept should get in the way of our fun, though, since we used to have this concept that "spinning negates paradox" but we've pretty much abandoned that because it was a real downer.

Lastly, ShredPirate, when you said:

is is "official" that planting negates paradox.

did you really mean to say "It is 'official'..."? Because I don't quite understand your remark as written.

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 27 Jun 2004 18:18

I think all our answers are answered by this quote found in Jeremy's sig:

"Hey. I talked to Kenny Shultz the other day and he said that parodox is
just a joke. He said that they made it up to confuse everybody. He said
he was sorry though."- Torch

Chris Hanratty · Post by **Chris Hanratty** » 27 Jun 2004 19:12

You make a really good point Jonathan with Blur and Fog. I don't see why it would really matter to tell you the truth, if there is a plant or not. Although unless the trick requires a plant, I think it looks better without one.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 27 Jun 2004 19:37

Personally I find it much better not to plant because I find it much easier. If you are planting on a normal pdx move (not blurry) then you're doing the move much more downtime than if you did it without the plant and you are giving yourself less time. The reason people find planting easier is because it gives you better balance and stability - but if you continue to practice without the plant, this will change.

I also think the idea of planting getting rid of the pdx comes from people doing it on relatively easy moves like pdx mirage and whirl. I tend to think that if you try a pdx blender or torque with and without a plant (and can hit both) the one without the plant will feel smoother and easier.

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 27 Jun 2004 23:38

Yes I think planting can make moves that are considered paradox, less paradoxy, to the point where you could say they don't feel like they're paradox at all. By this I mean the hip pivot normally involved in pdx moves, like pdx drifter, mirage and whirl to a lesser extent.

You can also make it feel 'less paradox' (that just sounds weird), through your set. For instance in a pdx mirage, a lot of people tend to set the bag across their body (like people do for infinities) to make the miraging dex easier on themselves. I don't think planting should offically negate paradox (if we're talking about competition for instance), because you can still plant and then perform the move with just as much pivot as before. Then you could get the absurdity of for instance, one person doing a planting pdx drifter that looks more pdx than someone else who does non planting pdx drifter, but only one of them gets the extra add value.

I think Jeremy is dead on about the stability and balance bit. I think I would still find planting pdx dlo easier than non-planting, but only because it gives me more stability and makes the move less reliant on a good set. Planting also looks horrible IMO, especially with pdx mirage and even though it's not pdx; butterfly.

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 28 Jun 2004 08:24

I would venture to say that this whole thing (which has gone on for years) can be relatively cleared up if it can be agreed that planting does not negate paradox if it is combined with another component (i.e. preceded by a dex or combined with a symposium, duck, dive, or spin, or even a symple)

Otherwise if you plant on a paradox mirage or paradox drifter or whirl, etc... , it's crap.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 28 Jun 2004 09:18

what do you mean by "it's crap"?

Do you mean that you personally don't like the look of it, so think that it should be one add less? Or is it because you think it's easier?

What do you think would be an easier move: Pdx whirr or clip set planted far whirr. Try it, and while you may not hit the move, I am sure that you will come closer with the non planted variety - why, because you have more time. Forget about what looks the best, adds have nothing to do with that - Adds are either about difficulty or about components of the move.

*I take no responsibility for ankle injuies incurred while attempting pdx whirr!

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 28 Jun 2004 09:37

When I say "It's crap" I mean it's not paradox.

I totally agree that you have more time if you don't plant a paradox whirr. This move would actually be included in what I was trying to say in my last post. Adding another dex would be adding another component, so hitting a paradox whirr and planting right after the set would still be paradox.

When you plant a paradox whirl or mirage you are losing time and aesthetic value (and paradox), but you are gaining stability and "spring in your step".

I'm not saying anything about adds here, I'm talking about the overall quality of the trick.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 28 Jun 2004 09:43

Splint wrote:This move would actually be included in what I was trying to say in my last post. Adding another dex would be adding another component, so hitting a paradox whirr and planting right after the set would still be paradox.

Maybe our thougts are on that same way:
In Paradox Whirr with plant the first dex isn't paradox, and the second is?

Ps. Adds should describe components - not dificult (sp?). But wothout off-topics

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 28 Jun 2004 11:58

I personally don't care what the official statement is, planting on single dex paradox tricks is just plain slop. I think the balance is the paradox, and the planting negates the need to balance. It's just as 'the' as a missed dex if you plant.

You might get all the adds for it in competitions, but I don't give a lot of respect for hitting it sloppy.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 28 Jun 2004 12:10

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 28 Jun 2004 15:29

i was talking about the basic paradox moves (no sets, no symposium).

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 07 Jul 2004 02:21

man, this is kind a shitty discussion.....:

- planting doesn't mean your not pivot-rotating
- pivot-rot. can also be avoided in non-plant moves (jumping,set)
- officially you also have to rate style, not floor contacts
- planting is most of the time harder
- planting sometimes is necessary (ps mirage)
- there's no purpose for this discussion, is zoid worse than other
sets, because you are resting longer before you set and it by this
doesn't look fluid ?

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 07 Jul 2004 07:00