I just saw this movie. I hope a lot of you see it too because it is very eye opening. It confirms a lot of the theories that I have held and also opened my eyes to a few new things that I hadn't thought of previously. I am still reeling from it and have many questions about life in general now.
Has anyone else seen it? What do you think?
Fahrenheit 9/11
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QuantumBalance
- 100-Watt Warlock
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SpaceMonkey
- Multidex Master
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I saw it because my gf wanted to. Basically it just says everything we have already heard like Bush is an idiot and they have ties with the Bin Ladens, and strings it together in a fancy way. A few personal stories thrown in.
It didn't make me a democrat and it didnt make me upset.
It didn't make me a democrat and it didnt make me upset.
Like every man of sense and good feeling, I abominate work
-Aldous Huxley
-Aldous Huxley
While I didn't think this was the most enlightening movie of all time, I thought it was very eye-opening. Most of all, I think the best two things about the movie are it's WONDERFUL timing (a month before the conventions start!), and how emotionally evoking Moore can be. I know that in Seattle (pretty liberal, given), almost every showing of every time at nearly every theatre it's been showing here has been sold out since it started showing on Friday.
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HighDemonslayer
- Egyptian Footgod
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420FootBager
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Michal Moore is a moron he makes no real solid points ever and he NEVER debates ANYONE...... When I watched Bowling 4 colombine I found my self screaming at the T.V. much of what he said was blatent lies.....
he truly must hate our country...... R any of you aware that if John Kerry wins our country will become a member of the U.N. officially and u YES YOU could be sent across sea's to face an international court for a big crime????
I do not like george "dubya" bush I think he is weak and i have many problems with him but he is far better then Kerry. Kerry is a socialist..... plain and simple.
he truly must hate our country...... R any of you aware that if John Kerry wins our country will become a member of the U.N. officially and u YES YOU could be sent across sea's to face an international court for a big crime????
I do not like george "dubya" bush I think he is weak and i have many problems with him but he is far better then Kerry. Kerry is a socialist..... plain and simple.
Gus P.-- Get'um up against the wall
Who let all this riff raff into the room
There's one smoking a joint and
Another with spots
If I had my way I'd have all of you shot
Who let all this riff raff into the room
There's one smoking a joint and
Another with spots
If I had my way I'd have all of you shot
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HighDemonslayer
- Egyptian Footgod
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- Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
- Location: Arizona
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SpaceMonkey
- Multidex Master
- Posts: 316
- Joined: 27 Jan 2004 18:10
- Location: Newburgh, IN
Ooooookay I saw it last night and I was not as impressed as I thought I'd be.
It was a Spin movie for certain. That is, a long anti-Bush commercial chock-full of begging questions about the truth of Moore's commentary which trys to lead you to make conclusions that Moore is unable to substantiate due to lack of evidence.
However, there is a great deal of important information in the movie that I thought was dead on as far as believing it as truth. However, you had to be able to weed it out from all the bullshit that Moore through in. His personal commentary was garbage, he made huge assumptions about what people may or may not have been thinking and backed it up with pithy little tidbits of emotive music and clips of Bush's famous clueless face.
After seeing this movie I AM more sure than ever that Bush must be ousted and should have been impeached long ago. I just think Moore could have done a better job with his verbal portion of the film.
It was a Spin movie for certain. That is, a long anti-Bush commercial chock-full of begging questions about the truth of Moore's commentary which trys to lead you to make conclusions that Moore is unable to substantiate due to lack of evidence.
However, there is a great deal of important information in the movie that I thought was dead on as far as believing it as truth. However, you had to be able to weed it out from all the bullshit that Moore through in. His personal commentary was garbage, he made huge assumptions about what people may or may not have been thinking and backed it up with pithy little tidbits of emotive music and clips of Bush's famous clueless face.
After seeing this movie I AM more sure than ever that Bush must be ousted and should have been impeached long ago. I just think Moore could have done a better job with his verbal portion of the film.
Old Skool
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Dr_inferno
- Multidex Master
- Posts: 239
- Joined: 23 May 2003 16:30
- Location: Shredsville, On. Canada
1-Micheal Moore is not a moron, he is anything but. He brings people to a new reality. He is the one that is trying to help America with some of its difficulties. Also he has done something with his life, he has most likely stopped at least 1 school shooting after producing Bowling for Columbine. one more thing…. Please enlighten use on what Michael lied about. We all would like to know. Also I dislike people who throw their opinion onto other people while being so blatantly rude. It is alright to criticize somebody’s work but not the person!Michal Moore is a moron he makes no real solid points ever and he NEVER debates ANYONE...... When I watched Bowling 4 colombine I found my self screaming at the T.V. much of what he said was blatent lies.....
he truly must hate our country......
2-He does not hate the country; he is trying to point out the flaws so that they are not swept under the carpet any more.......Anyone ever heard of Watergate......?
3-Again with the person bashing! If you would like to criticize then speak of the persons work and not themselves as a person. When people do this it makes them sound less intelligent. Also if you don’t like somebody back it up with reasons...................The reason I dislike Bush as our president is because the day of 9/11 he ordered more bombs be dropped on Kosovo than any other day.............Alright now you try... back it up!I do not like george "dubya" bush I think he is weak and i have many problems with him but he is far better then Kerry. Kerry is a socialist..... plain and simple.
Just too let everyone know that I am Canadian so I do not have the strongest grasp on American Politics. This is why I left it alone.
Piece
Jarrett Hutton
.//HACK
Brantford ON.
Shred till you bleed. Bleed because you want to.
.//HACK
Brantford ON.
Shred till you bleed. Bleed because you want to.
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420FootBager
- Multidex Master
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- Joined: 29 Jun 2004 11:05
- Location: South NJ aka. bordom
U asked for it........
____________________________
Many of his fans point-out that Moore is NOT anti-gun, and point to his membership in the NRA (as well as the very guns he owns) as proof. However, at the same time, he is the poster-boy for gun-control.
If you can't see the hypocrisy in this, then you're a moron; he's preaching veganism while eating a steak.
_____________________________
Quote from Michael-
"After Columbine, I decided that I would run against Charlton Heston for the presidency of the NRA. If elected, my plan was to try to return the NRA to a gun safety organization, instead of its current agenda of gun fanaticism. The rules said that to run for president, you had to be a member for the past five years or buy a lifetime membership for $750. And that's what I did. But after a while I realized this endeavor was going to take too much time, so I decided to focus all my attention on the movie I was making."
Too much time... Here Moore actually admits that he'd rather take pot shots and defame those he disagrees with in movies rather than actually make any real change. Perhaps the paycheck from making a movie vs. NRA president was more enticing to Moore than it was to Charlton Heston.
_____________________________
Although Moore says he supports gun ownership for hunters, his first depiction of them is the label of being stupid and careless with his fake hunting dog video. YES IT WAS FAKED
_____________________________
Closing the Columbine footage tear jerker scene, we see a near-hysterical female Columbine High School student telling how the girl next to her was shot in the head and a black male student was murdered 'because he was black.' Right at that line about him being shot 'cuz he was black' the footage is stopped (the frame freezes) and in a zoom in fade transition accompanied by a few seconds of black screen, we immediately see a clip of Charlton Heston at an NRA convention, colonial long-gun held high over his head, saying:
"I have only five words for you . . . From my cold dead hands!"
The girls full comments aren't shown. Moore intentionally showed us footage of the sobbing student and stopped the feed at the racist line (paused and zoomed in) to demonize Heston.
Also Moore plays the famous cold dead hands line right after a somber scene of crying children to paint Heston as insensitive to gun tragedies. The emotional appeal of cutting a scene of low key music and crying children with a triumphant Heston makes the association that Heston is reveling in death.
LIES THROUGH EDITING.....
__________________________
DIRECT QUOTE from a letter Michael Moore posted on his website in April of 2004- just two months ago- while he was still getting footage sent to him by his cameramen in Iraq
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."
Yesterday, Michael Moore released a film (and updated his website with a "how can you help the troops" page) in which he claims to express sympathy for US troops. But just two months ago, he called for their opposition to beat them, and then furthermore stated that more troops should be sent over to Iraq to punish us for supporting the war. If you've seen the film, these statements should appear in stark contrast to the fake, empty sympathy Moore claims to express on behalf of our armed forces.
Michael Moore is a shamefully disgusting hypocrite who earns money from the blood of dead US soldiers while he claims to support them. As you watch his 'hilarious' polemic over this weekend, never, ever, ever forget that.
________________________________
Moore shows endless shots of Bush and administration officials being made up for TV appearances, montages of Bush golfing and on vacation, a shot of Bush with his dog all accompanied by the sarcastic vocal commentary of Michael Moore.
In Moore's imaginary world, liberal politicians never get made up for TV appearances. In Moore's world, Bill Clinton never golfed, never vacationed for months on Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard, never had a dog named "Buddy". All this while Slick Willie had the opportunity (several times) to have Osama Bin Laden handed over to him, but declined.
________________________________
Do U want more..... Because i got more and many more details. I got time and i've got resorces and i've got a mind to see through the lies and propaganda.
Luv, peace, smoke 2 joints
____________________________
Many of his fans point-out that Moore is NOT anti-gun, and point to his membership in the NRA (as well as the very guns he owns) as proof. However, at the same time, he is the poster-boy for gun-control.
If you can't see the hypocrisy in this, then you're a moron; he's preaching veganism while eating a steak.
_____________________________
Quote from Michael-
"After Columbine, I decided that I would run against Charlton Heston for the presidency of the NRA. If elected, my plan was to try to return the NRA to a gun safety organization, instead of its current agenda of gun fanaticism. The rules said that to run for president, you had to be a member for the past five years or buy a lifetime membership for $750. And that's what I did. But after a while I realized this endeavor was going to take too much time, so I decided to focus all my attention on the movie I was making."
Too much time... Here Moore actually admits that he'd rather take pot shots and defame those he disagrees with in movies rather than actually make any real change. Perhaps the paycheck from making a movie vs. NRA president was more enticing to Moore than it was to Charlton Heston.
_____________________________
Although Moore says he supports gun ownership for hunters, his first depiction of them is the label of being stupid and careless with his fake hunting dog video. YES IT WAS FAKED
_____________________________
Closing the Columbine footage tear jerker scene, we see a near-hysterical female Columbine High School student telling how the girl next to her was shot in the head and a black male student was murdered 'because he was black.' Right at that line about him being shot 'cuz he was black' the footage is stopped (the frame freezes) and in a zoom in fade transition accompanied by a few seconds of black screen, we immediately see a clip of Charlton Heston at an NRA convention, colonial long-gun held high over his head, saying:
"I have only five words for you . . . From my cold dead hands!"
The girls full comments aren't shown. Moore intentionally showed us footage of the sobbing student and stopped the feed at the racist line (paused and zoomed in) to demonize Heston.
Also Moore plays the famous cold dead hands line right after a somber scene of crying children to paint Heston as insensitive to gun tragedies. The emotional appeal of cutting a scene of low key music and crying children with a triumphant Heston makes the association that Heston is reveling in death.
LIES THROUGH EDITING.....
__________________________
DIRECT QUOTE from a letter Michael Moore posted on his website in April of 2004- just two months ago- while he was still getting footage sent to him by his cameramen in Iraq
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."
Yesterday, Michael Moore released a film (and updated his website with a "how can you help the troops" page) in which he claims to express sympathy for US troops. But just two months ago, he called for their opposition to beat them, and then furthermore stated that more troops should be sent over to Iraq to punish us for supporting the war. If you've seen the film, these statements should appear in stark contrast to the fake, empty sympathy Moore claims to express on behalf of our armed forces.
Michael Moore is a shamefully disgusting hypocrite who earns money from the blood of dead US soldiers while he claims to support them. As you watch his 'hilarious' polemic over this weekend, never, ever, ever forget that.
________________________________
Moore shows endless shots of Bush and administration officials being made up for TV appearances, montages of Bush golfing and on vacation, a shot of Bush with his dog all accompanied by the sarcastic vocal commentary of Michael Moore.
In Moore's imaginary world, liberal politicians never get made up for TV appearances. In Moore's world, Bill Clinton never golfed, never vacationed for months on Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard, never had a dog named "Buddy". All this while Slick Willie had the opportunity (several times) to have Osama Bin Laden handed over to him, but declined.
________________________________
Do U want more..... Because i got more and many more details. I got time and i've got resorces and i've got a mind to see through the lies and propaganda.
Luv, peace, smoke 2 joints
Gus P.-- Get'um up against the wall
Who let all this riff raff into the room
There's one smoking a joint and
Another with spots
If I had my way I'd have all of you shot
Who let all this riff raff into the room
There's one smoking a joint and
Another with spots
If I had my way I'd have all of you shot
Moore shows endless shots of Bush and administration officials being made up for TV appearances, montages of Bush golfing and on vacation, a shot of Bush with his dog all accompanied by the sarcastic vocal commentary of Michael Moore.
Moore displays his opinion of the president as an actor on the stage.
Moore show Bush taking vacations at a time when a traditionally good leader would be leading his country. He portrays Bush as an incapable leader who can't handle the pressure of his job and retreats to his hiding place when the going gets rough. The facts are facts. Bush took more vacation than any other president despite having a terrorist attack on american soil, and fighting two wars on foreign soil. Bush took more vacation than any other president despite having an economic depression.
You may feel that Bush is a great leader , many people don't . . . Moore is just presenting the facts and his interpretation of them. The facts are facts, and the interpretation is his opinion. It's an opinion that many of us who read have already put together, and while the mainstream media was ducking the tough qeustions, Moore addressed them in his usual style of sarcasm and satire. The facts are still facts, you might not agree with his interpretation, but the facts are the same on both sides of the debate.
I really didn't think this film was that biased, moore says maybe 1000 words in the 120 minutes . . . it's all other peoples words put together into a coherent story that often times makes sense where the official version requires leaps of faith. It may not be correct, it may be, but it's his right to have and express his opinion that are important to preserve.
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bigdirtyfoot
- Sloppy
- Posts: 3142
- Joined: 22 Apr 2002 12:30
- Location: NC
But it's not all moores opinions. It's generally presented in form of
10 Setup situation with biased mindset to make his point,
20 Fact about what Bush did in the situation
30 Interpretation of Fact to support his point.
40 GOTO 10
You can go to the movie, and disagree with every conclusion he comes to, but the facts are still there and you need to be able to use these to make an informed opinion. It's common in this administration to dismiss facts that don't suppoort the official storyline, moore kinda does the same . . . but both the Bush story and the Moore story come from the same facts. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
10 Setup situation with biased mindset to make his point,
20 Fact about what Bush did in the situation
30 Interpretation of Fact to support his point.
40 GOTO 10
You can go to the movie, and disagree with every conclusion he comes to, but the facts are still there and you need to be able to use these to make an informed opinion. It's common in this administration to dismiss facts that don't suppoort the official storyline, moore kinda does the same . . . but both the Bush story and the Moore story come from the same facts. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
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Dr_inferno
- Multidex Master
- Posts: 239
- Joined: 23 May 2003 16:30
- Location: Shredsville, On. Canada
I didnt ask for anything.
Its not a fight and im not about to type a huge long post. To tell you the truth, I hope you had fun typing that huge post but sorry to say I didnt even read 3/4 of it. You want to know why because I think that people should back up thier reasons for saying sombody is a moron. It looks like you know your shit this is why I posted. This is the DISCUSSION area. Serious posts only and you come and start with your hes a moron, I hate him, ect. After that you still didnt care and you dare to call me a moron even though you are a newb to the forum and broken two written rules already, I hope you insult the wronge person and get you sorry ass kicked out of here.
Thats all I have to say and enjoy your stay while it lasts.
Mod edit: You asked for him to back up his opinion and he did. He didn't personally attack you so watch your own hostility.
Its not a fight and im not about to type a huge long post. To tell you the truth, I hope you had fun typing that huge post but sorry to say I didnt even read 3/4 of it. You want to know why because I think that people should back up thier reasons for saying sombody is a moron. It looks like you know your shit this is why I posted. This is the DISCUSSION area. Serious posts only and you come and start with your hes a moron, I hate him, ect. After that you still didnt care and you dare to call me a moron even though you are a newb to the forum and broken two written rules already, I hope you insult the wronge person and get you sorry ass kicked out of here.
Thats all I have to say and enjoy your stay while it lasts.
Mod edit: You asked for him to back up his opinion and he did. He didn't personally attack you so watch your own hostility.
Jarrett Hutton
.//HACK
Brantford ON.
Shred till you bleed. Bleed because you want to.
.//HACK
Brantford ON.
Shred till you bleed. Bleed because you want to.
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420FootBager
- Multidex Master
- Posts: 239
- Joined: 29 Jun 2004 11:05
- Location: South NJ aka. bordom
First off i am NOT a fan of "dubya" i think he is a horrible president and I agree that he vacations too much.
However Mr. Moore does not simply present the facts. His movie is edited biassly. He does portray Bush as an incapable leader who can't handle the pressure of his job and retreats to his hiding place when the going gets rough. That is clearly a biassed assesment, that is not factuall and he has no hard info to back that up. Moore states his opinion on Bushes vacations as fact and that is simply not right.
A documentary is FACT his "movie" is composed of opinion, ½truthes and many straight up lies.
Also I never said I will not see the movie that would be stupid. you must learn thy enemy and Michael Moore in my "opinion" is a enemy to our democracy.
However Mr. Moore does not simply present the facts. His movie is edited biassly. He does portray Bush as an incapable leader who can't handle the pressure of his job and retreats to his hiding place when the going gets rough. That is clearly a biassed assesment, that is not factuall and he has no hard info to back that up. Moore states his opinion on Bushes vacations as fact and that is simply not right.
A documentary is FACT his "movie" is composed of opinion, ½truthes and many straight up lies.
Also I never said I will not see the movie that would be stupid. you must learn thy enemy and Michael Moore in my "opinion" is a enemy to our democracy.
Gus P.-- Get'um up against the wall
Who let all this riff raff into the room
There's one smoking a joint and
Another with spots
If I had my way I'd have all of you shot
Who let all this riff raff into the room
There's one smoking a joint and
Another with spots
If I had my way I'd have all of you shot
No, the facts is Bush took many vacations . . . the interpretation of why and what it says about the leader is moores. Documentaries are not FACTS, facts are dull and uninformative.
10 killed 100.
10 Freedom fighter held off a brigade of 100 government soldiers
10 Terrorist hijacked a bus and kill 100 passengers
10 government soldiers were ambushed by 100 guerilla mercenaries
only one of these statments is *fact*, the other are interpretations and are perfectly acceptable in a documentary when explaining the events.
10 killed 100.
10 Freedom fighter held off a brigade of 100 government soldiers
10 Terrorist hijacked a bus and kill 100 passengers
10 government soldiers were ambushed by 100 guerilla mercenaries
only one of these statments is *fact*, the other are interpretations and are perfectly acceptable in a documentary when explaining the events.