rules of Shred:30

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 10 Jul 2004 20:05

Since I know nobody reads the whole worlds website...

* Shred:30 rules:

Shred contest will be more controlled and consistent than in the past, and for all clarification purposes, this is what to expect:

1. Your first add starts the clock and your first "real trick" starts your score. For example, if you start with Toe Stall > Clipper Stall > Ripwalk, the clock will start on the Toe Stall, and you score starts counting on your Ripwalk.
2. The last move of your run will be the one last *set* before the buzzer.
3. Uniques are 3 adds and higher for all divisions.
4. A digital clock and buzzer will be utilized for utmost accurate time counts during the event.
5. As usual, score = adds + (uniques x add ratio).

None of this is up for debate. Just a memo to those competing.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 11 Jul 2004 06:19

Thanks Ellis. I read that somewhere else just a few days ago and was a little surprised because I didn't think the clock started until the person actually plays at the bag - So I thought that if you came onto the stage, did a toe stall and paused - the clock would not have started yet. Is this a rule change or just my ignorance?

I also note that in the worlds 2002 shred 30 vid that I downloaded from flipsider, the clock starts for Vasek when he starts his first move, not when he does the toe stall and the it appears that the judges were timing from the parradon too. If they timed from the toe stall he still would have won (but only by about 6 points - 218 vs 224). Was this a judging error?

Personally I think it's much better to go from the beginning of the first three add. So I think if somebody starts with toe>clip... such as Ryan did in a recent shred 30 of his (I think at the last CSS comp) the clock shouldn't start until he starts his first move out of the clip.

Also what happens if a player drops or hand catches after the time on a move that they started before the time finished? In the Finland shred 30 the results were very close between Felix and Lasse. Lasse landed fog after the time (but started before), Felix did a diving hand catch - caught after the time, but again set before it. I'm not sure exactly how close it was, but I think there were only a few points in it. Should Felix's last move have counted as a zero add contact - since technically he dropped the last move - hand catches count as a drop?

Personally I think the rules should allow for judges to use their discretion and not count the last move since he caught it because time was up. I think it's silly to lower somebodies score because of such a minor misunderstanding of the rules(if that occurred - which by the rules laid out it should have). I'm sure the Finnish judges used their common sense but the rules should cover such situations.

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 11 Jul 2004 08:31

Jeremy wrote:So I thought that if you came onto the stage, did a toe stall and paused - the clock would not have started yet. Is this a rule change or just my ignorance?

Actually there was never a rule before, so we basically put the stopwatch in someone's hands and they did what they thought was the right way. At its worst, I've seen time counters start the clock when the player starts kicking on stage- it's happened to me and it sucks- it turns your Shred:30 into a Shred:20-something. Our point of the above rules is to standardize the contest's scores and timekeeping, so that players can know what to expect at every tournament (assuming tournaments follow this format).

I also note that in the worlds 2002 shred 30 vid that I downloaded from flipsider, the clock starts for Vasek when he starts his first move, not when he does the toe stall and then it appears that the judges were timing from the parradon too. Was this a judging error?

The clock in the video was added in post-production, so with hindsight the clock started at the very instant he *started* the Paradon, but what happened on the spot is unknown. It's not fair to ask the counters to pinpoint the beginning and end of a Shred as well as the long process of scoring- it's way too much work and time wasted that we could better manage live (during the Shred).

Personally I think it's much better to go from the beginning of the first three add. So I think if somebody starts with toe>clip... such as Ryan did in a recent shred 30.. the clock shouldn't start until he starts his first move out of the clip.

I agree the clock *should* start with the first real move, but it's not realistic because it's too difficult to tell at the beginning of a move if it will be a real move or just a starter move- for example, Toe>Clipper>Blur vs. Toe>Double Down. If we do it as you suggest, we'll end up giving some players a "freebie" move (meaning it counts but the clock doesn't start until half-way thru or on the stall). There should be no guess work for the timekeeper. So our alternative is to start the clock on the first add (whether it's a stall, dex, spin, etc.), and if the players want to ignore the rule and do it how they want, we will at least give them the benefit of not starting their score until their first real move. It's the perfect compromise.

Also what happens if a player drops or hand catches after the time on a move that they started before the time finished?

It would be double standard to waive the move if he misses but count it if he hits it. The issue of a hand-catch is up to the judges to decide if it was intentional or not.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 11 Jul 2004 16:18

Will x-dex and x-spin be counted?

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 11 Jul 2004 19:13

Does where the move is set from qualify it is as unique?

Example, is butterfly set from same toe, op toe, op clipper and same clipper 4 unique moves, or would you only get unique for butterfly the first time you hit it on that side, regardless of where it is set from? Same with osis, are toe osises unique from clipper osis, and far osis?

If these moves don't count as unique, is the determination of unique strictly based on jobs? In which case, would crispy style moves be non unique from original style moves? Ie. Drifter or DLO?

Let me know.

Thanks.

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 11 Jul 2004 19:57

Just shred.

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 11 Jul 2004 20:24

Shitt, ok I'll be nice. I just hate when people obsess about the technicalities of freestyle, which is way too often IMO.

You should read this topic about Defining UNIQUES http://www.flipsider.com/forum/phpBB2/v ... c.php?t=65

Check out the "Double Dexception"- I think it's a pretty good rule.

This stuff is getting into an area that also should be standardized, but the standards of counting Uniques seem to change every few years as we better understand freestyle. Hopefully we're getting more logical and accurate as time goes by, and one day members of the IFC will create official Shred rules to reflect all of the above, which will be in effect this Worlds 2004 regardless.

Oh, and to answer Ken's question, I think YES, but I'll have to double check with the fs crew.

Yours,
Ellis

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 12 Jul 2004 15:06

ellis one more question,

what if someone walks on stage and places the bag on their toe with their hands then throws the bag into a butterfly. ie Ryan M 02 shred finals.

does the clock start on the placement or the butter.
! Thanks !

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 12 Jul 2004 16:21

It is not an add to place the bag on your foot. The clock would start when he releases the bag. It would be great if we could start the clock with the start of his first real move, but as I've said, it's just impossible to be consistently accurate. Say the timekeeper thinks he's gonna do what you said, but then he Double Downs instead; we would have just given him a free move. For all players, I would recommend starting your run by kicking to the stall that starts your first real move. It's that simple, and we will make that clear at the freestyle meeting (mandatory attendance).

Ken, I talked x-dex and x-spin over with Yax, and they will both be counted at Worlds. That's about as official as it gets.

Regards,
E

max · Post by **max** » 13 Jul 2004 00:36

Hello Ellis, another question that may seem a bit stupid but it's not entirely off topic. You may seen people doing a shred 30 and drop mid-shred. Usually they pick up the bag and hand-set it to a whirl/butterfly/downdouble or other 3+add trick so as to to not get penalized too much. Now I was joking around last session and said "I'm gonna practice moves that I'd do in a shred-30 in case I drop". So I did the following (all hand set):
- duck/diving butterflies
- spinning clippers
- ripwalk/blur (or dimwalk/smear depending on how you look at it)..

yes doing a dexing set on a hand-set IS ridiculous

but who's to stop you ? So are there any specs on this issuse? Or should I just keep my stupid ideas to myself?

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 16 Jul 2004 07:51

Hehe, I wouldn't call them stupid ideas. It's really a matter of interpretation of the judges. If they think you "cheated" a move by setting it by hand, then it won't count- or rather the add(s) that were cheated won't count. Like if you toss it up, then spin, then Osis, I would say it counts as a 4. But if you spin while you're tossing it, then they'd probably not count the spin. Same goes for anything uptime.

Thanks for sharing.

To anyone new to Shred competition, NEVER hand-toss to a Toe stall after dropping! This will kill your score. Best thing is to quickly pick it up with your hand and set into a butterfly (or Clipper if your Butterfly is not that strong).